Concern about future upgrades

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This post has 40 Replies | 5 Followers

Posts 4
Steve | Forum Activity | Posted: Sat, Nov 8 2014 2:48 AM

I am just wondering does anyone else share my concern about future upgrades of Logos. Specifically, what if I never want to upgrade ever again beyond Logos 5. Is there a way that I can backup a copy of the installation program for me to load onto another computer? I don't care if I never get another update to any of the books or never have access to Logos online again.

I am just concerned because over the years I've spent thousands of dollars on libraries and upgrades of Logos. What if I just want to keep using what I've got and never spend any more money again? What is my option? Has anyone thought about this before? I am not a pastor. I don't have an annual budget for me to spend on buying upgrades, and that is what seems to be happening now with Logos. I am satisfied with what I have, does anyone know if there is a way for me to keep my status quo perpetually.

Posts 2037
Unix | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 8 2014 3:42 AM

Every time Logos releases a major update and introduces new base-packages, after a few months they release the free core engine. You don't need a backup. You can keep using L5, or You can update (not upgrade) to the free L6 core engine in February 2015 or at a later point in time. This will repeat a few months after L7 comes out, and so on. Thereby new computer hardware and operative systems remain supported. If You need to use an old operative system, You may download an older version of Logos.

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Posts 30
Todd Hinton | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 8 2014 3:44 AM

Good question Steve.  You might also ask what those free future upgrades for life get you?  It is surely not the latest program features.

Todd

Posts 2758
Don Awalt | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 8 2014 4:03 AM

Todd Hinton:

Good question Steve.  You might also ask what those free future upgrades for life get you?  It is surely not the latest program features.

Todd

Actually, not quite true. You get some new features, depending on whether a feature requires a new dataset, and bug fixes.  Here are the three approaches:

Upgrade to a new base package - you get new features that don't require new datasets, new features based on new datasets (think of datasets as tagging and additional data tied to or adding/enhancing resources), and new resources/books.

Crossgrade - you get the new features that don't require new datasets, new features based on datasets, but no new resources. Currently there are two variations of crossgrades, one a little cheaper with less datasets added, the other with all the datsdts for just a little more money.

Free engine - new features that don't require datasets, no datasets, no new resources. This also, as do all three strateges, ensure that your software continues to be supported with bug fixes, etc.

You can review a list of the features datasets on this page.

So there are three choices, one being free. In addition, you can turn off any and all internet updating of program and resources, so no syncing is done (which is fine if you back up your own computer and don't need to sync your work to another computer), and then run the program and resources you have until the operating system won't support the program any more - and maybe then a virtual machine can be installed on your computer (Windows and Mac both support this with additional cost programs) to run your older Logos on a version of the older OS. That is, assuming you upgraded the older OS - you can just not upgrade anything on your computer and other than support/bug fixes/security patches you don't miss anything.

So it seems all the choices are covered, no? Do nothing - zero cost maintain support and some improvements - get all the features no new books - various choices of upgrade to new features and resources. 

Posts 30
Todd Hinton | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 8 2014 6:00 AM

Good technical explanation.  Its all in how you look at it.

Posts 9072
Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 8 2014 7:11 AM

Steve, to your specific questions:

- Does anyone else share your concern?  Yes.   These type questions tend to show up with each major update.  But forum OPs are typically not interested in 'death of a salesman'.  However, according to Logos, the bulk of Logos purchasers are single-time, and I'd assume at some point, simply let their software die (similar to what I'm doing with OliveTree).  The issue is for those who have a large investment.   Basically you're on your own, absent questions to Dave in Australia.

- Is there a way you can backup a copy of the installation program for me to load onto another computer.  Yes, there is, thanks to the afore mentioned Dave of Australia: method 1 of https://wiki.logos.com/Quick_Installation_onto_multiple_computers 

- Does anyone know if there is a way for you to keep your status quo perpetually?  Above, Don sort of hints at it, but the answer is 'no'.  As he mentions, it's possible to operate in a virtual box but the system has to match your backup (mentioned above).  If it doesn't or someone upgrades the virtual box, you're out of luck.  Realistically you're better off, simply assigning a PC to your Logos and cutting the internet to the PC (to avoid ALL updates).

The above is basically how I operate Libronix, for the same issues you mention.  I have a dedicated PC in the music room which runs Libronix and also all the older synths (completely offline). And I have a virtual box on my W7 that similarly runs Libronix (the virtual box being offline).   I'm reluctant to do the same with the L4-6 series, primarily due to the layering.  Age wise, I figure I'm off heavy Bible study before that issue arrives.  Stick with my iPad at that point.


Posts 2758
Don Awalt | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 8 2014 10:41 AM

Denise:
Does anyone know if there is a way for you to keep your status quo perpetually?  Above, Don sort of hints at it, but the answer is 'no'.

I thought I was clearer - there is a status quo choice - the answer is YES. Turn off the internet and update NOTHING. You only get pushed into updating your Logos if you update your OS, eventually. 

Denise:
The above is basically how I operate Libronix, for the same issues you mention.  I have a dedicated PC in the music room which runs Libronix and also all the older synths (completely offline). And I have a virtual box on my W7 that similarly runs Libronix (the virtual box being offline).

This strategy works with Logos 4, 5, and 6 as well - if you want to.

GIVEN the approaches Logos/Faithlife offers, that I outlined above, is there a remaining concern? Aren't all the choices offered?

Posts 1321
Wild Eagle | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 8 2014 10:52 AM

Anything in technology will push you to update, I mean anything. Otherwise it would be a dead company 

"No man is greater than his prayer life. The pastor who is not praying is playing; the people who are not praying are straying." Leonard Ravenhill 

Posts 9072
Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 8 2014 11:01 AM

Don, 'yes' is not entirely correct to 'status quo'. 

For example if one chose the status quo for Libronix just 5 years back, you'd be finished (IE would have nailed you and did, for my W7 copy). Similarly Logos4: as MS changes the platform, Logos doesn't update/maintain, finished.

So a status quo relative to the OPs vision? No.  L5 will be dead in the water in 4-5 years (absent some other user action).  Only by unplugging the PC from the internet, as I mentioned, would allow a 'status quo' (which of course would not be a status quo).


Posts 4961
Dan Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 8 2014 11:32 AM

As time goes on I am disturbed by the direction of Logos. It goes more and more into the cloud. Major features of 6,  like the Atlas, require an active connection tot he internet to use. I do not think Logos is going anywhere anytime soon. But lots of us have much invested into our Library's and I have always taken solace in the fact I could create a VM of OS and run Logos to maintain my Library on my computer. But in situation where Logos servers are required to use resources we own (yes it is technically licenses), having a VM is about as useful as having a rotary phone.

-Dan 

Posts 1321
Wild Eagle | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 8 2014 11:58 AM

Dan, everything in technology progressing toward cloud. Those programs which don't go to that direction will be left behind

"No man is greater than his prayer life. The pastor who is not praying is playing; the people who are not praying are straying." Leonard Ravenhill 

Posts 2758
Don Awalt | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 8 2014 11:58 AM

Denise:
Don, 'yes' is not entirely correct to 'status quo'. 

We can argue semantics of words until we are blue in the face. I still maintain Logos offers every choice from doing nothing to upgrades of features and resources, that's all. Logos 6 will run a lot longer if you choose, in current revision, than Windows 7, Photoshop, Evernote, Gmail, IE, Quicken, Turbo Tax, or just about any other piece of software in its current revision, and certainly no worse. 

Posts 9072
Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 8 2014 12:11 PM

The issue isn't just semantics ... it's an individuals investment in the Word.  And whether no worse (which the OP didn't ask), the end result is the same.  Dead in the water (if status quo).


Posts 8850
fgh | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 8 2014 12:32 PM

Dan Francis:
Major features of 6,  like the Atlas, require an active connection tot he internet to use. (...) I have always taken solace in the fact I could create a VM of OS and run Logos to maintain my Library on my computer. But in situation where Logos servers are required to use resources we own (yes it is technically licenses), having a VM is about as useful as having a rotary phone.

The maps are too big for our HD's/SSD's. Would you prefer not to have them at all? Because that's the alternative.

"The Christian way of life isn't so much an assignment to be performed, as a gift to be received."  Wilfrid Stinissen

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Posts 2037
Unix | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 8 2014 12:33 PM

Yes:

fgh:
Would you prefer not to have them at all? Because that's the alternative.

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Wild Eagle | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 8 2014 1:27 PM

Unix, just dissable the internet and you won't have them Stick out tongue

"No man is greater than his prayer life. The pastor who is not praying is playing; the people who are not praying are straying." Leonard Ravenhill 

Posts 277
Ben | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 8 2014 4:04 PM

this only pathway keeping your resources and you study.

2 Peter 3:18  But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be the glory both now and to the day of eternity. Amen.

Posts 4961
Dan Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 8 2014 7:43 PM

I am not too worried about the atlas or the scanned books for that matter.  But i also hope our basic resources and majority of functionality will be at least downloaded to our computer for offline usage. If Logos 7 offers online storage so you need not take up space on your computer I would not be terribly happy with that thought even though that is basically already the way our mobile apps work. To the best of my knowledge the only resources I am lacking on my mobile devices are the Jerome Biblical Commentary and Oxford Bible Commentary (I would guess there are also new 6 resources not yet accessible on mobile ). 

-Dan

Posts 4
Steve | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 8 2014 8:57 PM

Thank you all, I think I understand this issue better now from your comments.

If Logos is committed to releasing the core engine for free then I guess I don't have a problem.

So I guess I wasn't totally clear on what I meant by status quo. By status quo I mean as long as I can continue to upgrade my computer OS and receive free core engine upgrades and still be able to read all my existing books then that is status quo for me.

But, if I understand correctly from Denise is that, if I ever want to run Logos in a completely isolated mode (status quo), I already have everything from my current installation to reinstall Logos offline? For instance if I were to reformat my hard drive and reload Win OS, I can reload the entire Logos program from my C:\Users\Steve\AppData\Local\Logos4 directory?

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Forum MVP
Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 8 2014 9:29 PM

Steve:
For instance if I were to reformat my hard drive and reload Win OS, I can reload the entire Logos program from my C:\Users\Steve\AppData\Local\Logos4 directory?

Welcome Big Smile

Wiki has => https://wiki.logos.com/Quick_Installation_onto_multiple_computers

Keep Smiling Smile

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