Help with New "Literary Type Dataset"

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Ross Durham | Forum Activity | Posted: Mon, Nov 10 2014 7:22 AM

What am I missing on the Literary Typing or Literary Type Dataset?  

1.  When I click on Literary Type Dataset on this page ( https://community.logos.com/forums/t/92701.aspx ), I get a blank page here (https://www.logos.com/product/45491/dataset-literary-type).  

2.  When I look for the Literary Type data in the passage guide on Dan 9.4, I get "Dan 7.1-12.13: Apocalypse; 7.1-9.27: Vision."  But 9.1 seems pretty clearly a break from the vision ("In the first year of Darius ... ") and it would be Really helpful for 9.4-19 or 9.4-27 to be labeled "prayer."  

Or take Jer 32.16.  It is listed as "Prose; story."  That is of little use to me, but if it were listed as "Prayer" (or at least starting with 32.17 as "Prayer") and we could search on "prayer" type, that would be really useful.  

3.  How do I get Logos to show me all the passages that are coded to a certain literary type? 


Ross

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Graham Criddle | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 10 2014 7:43 AM

Ross Durham:
1.  When I click on Literary Type Dataset on this page ( https://community.logos.com/forums/t/92701.aspx ), I get a blank page here (https://www.logos.com/product/45491/dataset-literary-type).  

The link on the page is incorrect -it should be to https://www.logos.com/product/45490/literary-type-dataset 

Ross Durham:
3.  How do I get Logos to show me all the passages that are coded to a certain literary type? 

Use the <LiteraryTyping> search

There is a glossary of the types in Lexham Glossary of Literary Types

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Ross Durham | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 11 2014 7:31 AM

Thank you for the reply.  I was missing the search syntax.  Thanks. 

So when I look at the web page for dataset-literary type, I find this description:

We’ve identified biblical genres, down to the smallest unit of text

Our team of experts has painstakingly cataloged the genre of every verse in the Bible. A given passage of Scripture may include numerous types and sub-types of biblical genres. For instance, the Sermon on the Mount in Matthew 5 includes Old Testament quotes, legal sayings, discipleship sayings, and more. The Literary Type Dataset identifies these categories and places them in hierarchical order—from book genre all the way down. When you access the Passage Guide, Logos scours this database, showing you the literary genre of every unit in the passage you’re studying

I am finding it hard to see this as an accurate description for what I see in the PG for Dan 9.4 and Jer 32.16.  

1. It seems like you have merely *included* every verse in some broad genre or sub-type rather than actually having "cataloged the genre of every verse in the Bible."

2. Even putting in a verse from mt 5, as the description cites, can yield scarce results.  When "mt 5" is put in, the PG does show an outline of genre types, but there is not an entry even for each paragraph, much less "smallest unit of text." 

3.  The link for more info on the Literary data type page is broken, e.g. "the sheep page", which implies I've made a mistake.

4.  Q: When the L6 engine comes out (February 15, did I read) will it by itself, without the cross grade, enable the search, "{Section <literarytyping = prayer>}"?  

I'm sure I am missing something here.  

Ross

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Ross Durham | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 13 2014 7:25 AM

One more thought:

The above search on "prayer" in Literary Typing yield 174 results but that is counting verses.  Those 174 represent only 14 pericopes (or sections perhaps extending beyond a pericope). 8 in OT and 7 in NT.  

Could this data possibly trend toward a conclusion that the tool could use some redesign or the marketing of the tool needs more restraint, or both? 

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 15 2014 2:18 AM

Ross Durham:
2. Even putting in a verse from mt 5, as the description cites, can yield scarce results.  When "mt 5" is put in, the PG does show an outline of genre types, but there is not an entry even for each paragraph, much less "smallest unit of text." 

In ESV bible for Mt 5

Why should there be an entry for each paragraph/verse? A PG for 5:3 shows the first two entries from above.

Are you suggesting that other types could be assigned to individual verses from the Lexham Glossary of Literary Types?

Ross Durham:
4.  Q: When the L6 engine comes out (February 15, did I read) will it by itself, without the cross grade, enable the search, "{Section <literarytyping = prayer>}"?  

You will get 0 results.

Dave
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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 15 2014 2:49 AM

Ross Durham:
The above search on "prayer" in Literary Typing yield 174 results but that is counting verses.

If you use a Basic Search there are 15 results, 8 OT and 7 NT as you deduced above. As always there is an interpretation of what constitutes 'prayer', so when you perform a Topic Guide on 'prayer' the Related Verses will show that Abraham's intercession ('Abraham drew near and said') in Gen 18:22-23 is included. As 2 Sam 7:18 ('David sat before the Lord and said') is counted as Prayer in Literary Typing there is room for improvement.

Dave
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Fr Devin Roza | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 15 2014 3:42 AM

Ross Durham:

One more thought:

The above search on "prayer" in Literary Typing yield 174 results but that is counting verses.  Those 174 represent only 14 pericopes (or sections perhaps extending beyond a pericope). 8 in OT and 7 in NT.  

Could this data possibly trend toward a conclusion that the tool could use some redesign or the marketing of the tool needs more restraint, or both? 

My experience with this tagging has been similar to yours, Ross. That is, there are certain tags that seem to be quite complete, such as the OT Quotations. But others, like Prayer, seem to be unfinished, or at least don't correspond to what the marketing description leads one to think about the way this tagging should work.

It would be great to get a confirmation about whether this is still a work in progress, and if so, which literary types are finished. If it is already finished, then the marketing needs to reflect what this really is, which is a more high-level markup (except for a few select literary types, it would seem, that have been given special attention).

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 15 2014 2:38 PM

My experience with Faithlife literary typing has been less than satisfactory ... added to that that they rendered my Andersen-Forbes filters useless ....

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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