Logos 6 Media: Get more of what you love!

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Bob Pritchett | Forum Activity | Posted: Mon, Nov 10 2014 5:29 PM

We put a lot of time and expense into creating Media (and interactives) for Logos 6. I'd love to hear what you appreciate most, and what you'd like to see more of.

The media is tagged to show up 'when you need it', and we emphasized showing it at point of need over browsing interfaces. So here are a few tips on where to look to see what you've got:

Media Search: "deSilva" to find both slide and video versions of David deSilva's teaching materials. (Are slides or video better? Are these things you'd actually use in church or a class?)

Media Search: "Beitzel" for thousands of photos of biblical locations.

Before and After Interactive -- note that there are now ready-to-use images in the bottom of the info panel -- clicking will take you straight to Visual Copy. Are these artist renderings interesting/useful? Are the hand-drawn ones good enough? Take a look at "Jerusalem" -- where we invested in a much higher-quality rendering. Is it worth it? Useful?

Open the Faithlife Study Bible Infographics to something like logosres:fsbinfographics;art=solomonstemple

If you right-click on this and choose Visual Copy, you'll be able to copy exactly this image, or one of three custom slides derived from it, but designed for projection. Is this useful? Have you ever used media from Logos in a presentation?

Media Search: "British Museum" -- lots of museum images are available online, but these have been hand-curated, licensed, neatly laid out, and have captions. (In a few cases the museum is taking new photos!) Is this useful? Does this extra level of attention help?

Media Search: "Cyrus cylinder" -- this lets you see our hand-made media (in "Logos Media Library") as well as how we've curated photos from the Internet ("Online Results"). Should we do more web curation? Of videos as well as stills? Or invest more in less, but carefully curated and laid out?

We heard from pastors (and seminary profs) that a lot of their time went into choosing media to illustrate their sermon. I know that's only true for people who use media -- some don't -- but I'd love to hear if our work on media in Logos 6 is helping address that need we did hear, and how you are / aren't using the media.

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David Taylor Jr | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 10 2014 6:12 PM

I love the interactive infographics (can't wait for more!).  I like the deSilva videos but wish there was a way for them to buffer and play within the software itself as opposed to jumping to an external browser, but I do understand why, for now, it is setup that way.

I like the media archives from BM and Beitzel but I wish (maybe you can and I am just dumb) there were citation sources for them.

As far as interactives I love the slideover interactives that show Biblical time verses current day ruins.  Flyovers are neat but once again wish they did not have to go to an external interface.

It is quite clear a TON of time and effort was put into these and a lot of thought for useful media to make our study/presentations much more enhanced!  Not at my computer with L6 on it right now but those are my top of the head thoughts.

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Martin Folley | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 10 2014 11:45 PM

Bob Pritchett:
Media Search: "British Museum" -- lots of museum images are available online, but these have been hand-curated, licensed, neatly laid out, and have captions. (In a few cases the museum is taking new photos!) Is this useful? Does this extra level of attention help?

Hi Bob.

I like the ready availability of the images ... just being 30 minutes from the museum, I have been putting stuff together relating to it for a while, to aid visits etc. (it is a big place!)

Some feedback about the media search ...

  1. The search results appear as small thumbnails. I know I can enlarge the system panels now (the #1 feature of L6?) but then the text also enlarges. Would it be possible to have a context menu to add all these results into a viewer so that they can be scrolled through? Currently, it uses the 'Visual Copy' Panel  ... which is ideal except for having to load each one individually. Maybe it could 'fool' the Visual Copy panel into thinking that the images have been viewed so that the 'forward' button can be used to go to the next image?
  2. There is some good information alongside the media, but none of it is hyperlinked. Is that possible? Or is that a function of using the 'Visual Copy' panel?

Thanks. 

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Fr Devin Roza | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 11 2014 10:30 AM

Bob Pritchett:

We put a lot of time and expense into creating Media (and interactives) for Logos 6. I'd love to hear what you appreciate most, and what you'd like to see more of.

Thanks this is much appreciated.
Bob Pritchett:
The media is tagged to show up 'when you need it', and we emphasized showing it at point of need over browsing interfaces.

This has been kind of frustrating actually, as there is no easy way to browse through the media. Even the search results are not easy to browse through, as relatively few hits are given per page.

I think ideally Faithlife should try to hit the best of both worlds mark with the browsing point. For example, with all of these new online resources, there should be an offline resources which contain all of the metadata, the thumbnails, and possibly even a small low res version of the work.

That would allow for the following:

  1. Easier discovery. They would appear in your library as another resource.
  2. More relevant search results. Search results can be merged with offline results. This is important, I think, because as an end user I'm more interested in the result itself, not where it comes from. I want my results prioritized accordingly. To distinguish online and offline results, a little visual indication could be added to the corner of the online results, and a search filter of some sort could be added, so that when you want only one or the other you can have that too. 
  3. Faster searches. Searches are entirely offline, and only when you click the resource does it download (and hopefully cache) the full image. If it can't get the full image, you at least see the low-res version.
  4. Better browsing experience. There would be no reason then why Faithlife couldn't present 100s of images to scroll through.
  5. Better viewing experience. While I appreciate that the Visual Copy tool is useful and well done, it is a tool useful primarily for getting artwork into PowerPoint, or for customizing slides. But that is always a second step! The first step is learning about the image, choosing the right image, etc. And for that, the Visual Copy tool is poor, and that's fine - that's not it's job. But this means that users would be better off having local resources with hopefully lots of metadata about the image they are looking at, and with the possibility of easily seeing and browsing other similar images that are present in that collection (as the Logos Infographics and other similar offline resources currently). Once a user has chosen the image he is interested in from the resource, then that is the moment to bring in Visual Copy (as you do so well with the Infographics example of Solomon's Temple, with the Before and After tool, etc.).

Bob Pritchett:
So here are a few tips on where to look to see what you've got:

Media Search: "deSilva" to find both slide and video versions of David deSilva's teaching materials. (Are slides or video better? Are these things you'd actually use in church or a class?)

The videos are better, but the slides are also very good. This is great material. I would absolutely use these, and greatly appreciate David deSilva's work.

Bob Pritchett:

Before and After Interactive -- note that there are now ready-to-use images in the bottom of the info panel -- clicking will take you straight to Visual Copy. Are these artist renderings interesting/useful? Are the hand-drawn ones good enough? Take a look at "Jerusalem" -- where we invested in a much higher-quality rendering. Is it worth it? Useful?

Well done. I think you can probably choose between high and low quality rendering based on the topic. Certainly for Jerusalem, it is worth it.
BTW, this is a perfect example of when Visual Copy was well used. The resource has lots of information, and then also gives the option to go to Visual Copy.

Bob Pritchett:
Open the Faithlife Study Bible Infographics to something like logosres:fsbinfographics;art=solomonstemple

If you right-click on this and choose Visual Copy, you'll be able to copy exactly this image, or one of three custom slides derived from it, but designed for projection. Is this useful? Have you ever used media from Logos in a presentation?

Yes, these are absolutely useful. And this is another example of Visual Copy being used correctly, I think.

Bob Pritchett:
Media Search: "British Museum" -- lots of museum images are available online, but these have been hand-curated, licensed, neatly laid out, and have captions. (In a few cases the museum is taking new photos!) Is this useful? Does this extra level of attention help?

Yes, it is nice. But, I would actually prefer to have the image, and then have good metadata, and be able to then choose how I want to use it. That is, the slides are great, but when you give us slides like this, please also give us the image apart.

Bob Pritchett:
Media Search: "Cyrus cylinder" -- this lets you see our hand-made media (in "Logos Media Library") as well as how we've curated photos from the Internet ("Online Results"). Should we do more web curation? Of videos as well as stills? Or invest more in less, but carefully curated and laid out?

I do like having it carefully laid out as long as the image is also available apart (and ideally with a link or reference within the metadata of the laid out image, and vice-versa!) - but good and detailed metadata is even more important for me, and good navigation as well.

Where I have noticed that the metadata is particularly poor is in the case of artwork - thank you very much for including artwork as well, and I would also very much love to see more of this!

All of this new media is really a major improvement to Logos/Verbum 6! Thanks so much and congrats!

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Steve Maling | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 11 2014 10:43 AM

I used Todd Bolen's slides plus material from the Internet before (successful) chemotherapy put paid to much of my teaching. In remission with less, but with less energy, these possibilities are very much appreciated for what teaching I can still do.

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Bob Pritchett | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 14 2014 5:01 PM

I just want to bump this up in case others have input... we really are listening, and if you want more of a particular media it really will help to tell us. (Or should we take the low response as an indication that we have enough media now?)

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Donnie Hale | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 14 2014 5:20 PM

Bob Pritchett:
Before and After Interactive -- note that there are now ready-to-use images in the bottom of the info panel -- clicking will take you straight to Visual Copy. Are these artist renderings interesting/useful? Are the hand-drawn ones good enough? Take a look at "Jerusalem" -- where we invested in a much higher-quality rendering. Is it worth it? Useful?

I can't figure out how you get to this. I assume "info panel" is via Tools->Information. What is "Before and After Interactive"? I've not had nearly enough time to try all the new stuff in L6, particularly these kinds of features.

Thanks,

Donnie

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Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 14 2014 5:35 PM

Donnie Hale:
I can't figure out how you get to this. I assume "info panel" is via Tools->Information. What is "Before and After Interactive"? I've not had nearly enough time to try all the new stuff in L6, particularly these kinds of features.

On the tools menu, some interactives are shown in the right-hand column. At the bottom of the list is a link to see the rest. Click that and your library will open filtered to just the interactives. You should find Before and After fairly easily. It's one of my favourites.

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Donnie Hale | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 14 2014 5:42 PM

Mark Barnes:
You should find Before and After fairly easily.

Easy. Check.

I have 6 items in the resource (Before and After: Biblical Sites). Is that what I should expect?

Donnie

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 14 2014 5:50 PM

I've not had time to thoroughly explore these features but I believe they are a move in the right direction. Current feedback:

  1. In the forums a number of people are having trouble finding them after seeing them on videos. Some sort of direct open and browse is needed.
  2. Standard searches bring up too much of a mish-mash of results. If the results fell into categories -- maps, Logos diagrams, fine art, regional photographs, manuscripts, presentation tools ... so that I could more quickly hone in on what is of interest to me at this particular point in time. I prefer organizing the results to requiring more precise search arguments for the average user.
  3. The interactives has some really possibilities but I think they they need to mature at bit before they will receive broad use by mature I mean things like (a) proverbs including proverbs outside the canonical book of Proverbs (b) the 10 Commandments being accurate and including Deuteronomy ... they also need to deal with some of the less familiar topics because that is where they can really shine - things like the Jewish 613 mitzvot, the ritual 10 commandments, the agrapha (sayings of Jesus outside the canonical Gospels) ...
  4. Hand curating and good metadata are definitely worth the effort.

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Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 14 2014 6:13 PM

Donnie Hale:
I have 6 items in the resource (Before and After: Biblical Sites). Is that what I should expect?

Yes. That's all for now.

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Nord Zootman | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 14 2014 6:45 PM

Bob, I can't comment on quality as I am still saving a bit so I can upgrade to 6, but as a pastor this sounds exciting - something I look forward to using!

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Mike Measley | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 14 2014 7:57 PM

I am already using this in sermons thank you for including it, and thank you for all of the work that you all of into it. I actually called support because I wanted to see/browse the different media collections to familiarize myself. Found out this is not possible. This would be a nice addition. As someone else mentioned, maybe a resource that had thumbnails would be helpful?

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Mike Binks | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 15 2014 1:02 AM

Bob Pritchett:

I just want to bump this up in case others have input... we really are listening, and if you want more of a particular media it really will help to tell us. (Or should we take the low response as an indication that we have enough media now?)

No on both counts - you are just dealing with busy people who are getting to grips with a lot of varied new stuff. (And it is mostly your fault).

This thread should be bumped occasionally - but I suspect the responses will trickle rather than flood in as your customers actually have a chance to really use the stuff.

I suspect more will use it (and find it lacking) now that I read about the 'Send to Keynote' option being included. (but I haven't had time to go looking for it).

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Mike W | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 15 2014 7:03 AM
Bob Pritchett:

I just want to bump this up in case others have input... we really are listening, and if you want more of a particular media it really will help to tell us. (Or should we take the low response as an indication that we have enough media now?)

I just saw this discussion. The graphics are great (the links to faithlife study bible are very helpful) and I really like the Internet search in media search. Logos 6 has completely replaced any need I had for the other major Mac bible software. I'd like to see more of the instructional graphics. More links to images of manuscripts and images of archaeological items would be nice too.😄
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Erwin Stull, Sr. | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 15 2014 8:16 AM

I have noticed, and really like, the function to be able to select 4:3 or 16:9 for the format. Smile

This is very good for display on old style monitors and projectors.

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Jarred Edgecombe | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 15 2014 8:51 AM

Bob,

I just finished teaching through Joshua in Sunday school and loved the resources available in Logos 5, now that I have Logos 6 I wish I would have waited. I love being able to use the infographics in slides during Sunday school.

I like the right-click to Visual Copy. I will make good use of it at appropriate times. In our rural church, the elderly are not very internet savvy so the infographics  give them a new level of understanding.

I do like the idea of hand-curating the British museum images. It takes too much time to sift through these things on the internet.

My usage of media is heavy during teaching times. During my series on Joshua I used Logos maps extensively. But I found that Todd Bolens' Satellite Bible Atlas very helpful in certain situations. His images are high resolution. It would be cool to license his images.

SUGGESTION: I know that this would probably be incredibly time-consuming to develop. But it would be great if we could have a maps feature whereby we could customize the maps. I'm thinking about something like drawing lines and arrows on maps. Also, maybe a filter function to be able to pick out certain cities to display in a custom map.

That being said, I want to thank you for all the work and innovation that goes into Logos. I love it.

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Ice Deep | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 31 2014 1:38 PM

I am insane about media right now, been collecting it from everywhere I can. As far as media goes, though it is not as expansive as logos, both the experience of searching for and usability of the media in Glo (one of logos competitors) is still better. Glo is getting old though.

What I would like to see out of logos is an easier way to browse and search images from all resources, some of the images have poor tagging and don't come up well in search results.

I am always enthusiastic about infographics and love the ones you have had Carbel make so far.

I would like an issue image library which would be tougher to do, but would include images for preaching on things like Bible formation, marriage, other religions, wisdom etc... I don't even know a good source for this right now. Strong metaphorical content would be awesome. Things like a burning house and someone inviting you in to "party"... as a representation of the seduction of the world.

Lastly I would have a high class art source. The Bible and Its Story is good, but it is all Black and White and it is hard to tell the artist and year sometimes. I would want full collections of Gustave Dore (who would only have a few color images) and James Tissot. As well as general collections that cover books of the Bible. Even some modern collections like Ted Larson's Revelation images. Especially with apocalyptic literature, images like these add so much.

The interactive stuff is fun, but it's inability to be embedded in powerpoint makes it limited for presentations.

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 31 2014 5:30 PM

Ice Deep:

Lastly I would have a high class art source. The Bible and Its Story is good, but it is all Black and White and it is hard to tell the artist and year sometimes. I would want full collections of Gustave Dore (who would only have a few color images) and James Tissot. As well as general collections that cover books of the Bible. Even some modern collections like Ted Larson's Revelation images. Especially with apocalyptic literature, images like these add so much.

It currently has only the art of Far Angelico, Guido Reni, Jacob Jordaens, James Tissot and Rubens, but have you seen the Verbum Treasury of Sacred Art? It appears to be the initial implementation of what you are suggesting.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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kateri biggers | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 5 2015 5:29 PM

sorry if this is the wrong place to ask...i'm a newbie

when you highlight and copy text in order to use "visual copy" for sharing a quote on facebook etc., is there a way to upload your own photos or modify the existing background photo choices? tyvm for all you do. God bless you

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