Bob Pritchett: please prioritize QUALITY over QUANTITY

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 13 2014 8:28 AM

Francis:

One could add as well, that generally, Logos seems to cater more to a general rather than academic public.

I agree although I'm not sure that is how Faithlife perceives itself. I believe their first priority is the pastor and associates. I think they struggle with where to land in terms of giving academics the pure tools and giving the pastors access to the information provided by those tools. But I also see growth in their features in both areas. And while I would like to see more documentation of specific types, I'm not sure more extensive help is the answer.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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Michael | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 14 2014 10:11 PM

Mark Barnes:
But Logos know that many resources (particularly older ones) don't have the Heading Text field, which is why they introduced the Large Text field. This is automatically applied by the indexer to text over a certain size, and doesn't require tagging. It's a workaround for resources without heading tagging, and usually works OK. In this case though, the headings in the JE are too small to qualify.

Hi Mark,

Just wanted to express my appreciation for your comments. It's one thing to know how to do something, but it's even better to know why something works the way it does. You frequently explain the why, which is very helpful!

Blessings,

Michael

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Patrick S. | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 14 2014 11:55 PM

Mark Barnes:

I don't know a huge amount. 

Mark if one was to take that as a general comment about you and Logos Bible Software we would protest strongly the opposite! Smile

Will the tips and information you shared be going into the Wiki as a permanent, easy to find, resource?

"I want to know all God's thoughts; the rest are just details." - Albert Einstein

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Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 15 2014 1:12 AM

Michael:
it's even better to know why something works the way it does

You should tell my wife that. Her eyes tend to glaze over when I launch into one of my explanations. It's why I come here Big Smile.

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Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 15 2014 1:16 AM

Patrick S.:
Will the tips and information you shared be going into the Wiki as a permanent, easy to find, resource?

I'm largely responsible for the existing detailed search page which is four years old now, and obviously badly needs to be updated, or probably rewritten from scratch.

I'm focussing on video at the moment (an introduction to L6 that covers everything new - like this one I did for L5), but once that's done, I'll have a crack at that wiki page (if no-one else beats me to it). Probably my video script can be adapted for the Wiki.

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Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 15 2014 1:36 AM

Mark Barnes:
an introduction to L6 that covers everything new

If I may make a suggestion with regard to this exciting project -- and depending on how basic or detailed the video will be -- it would be useful if there were shorter but topic specific videos. 

Of course, I suppose it depends on what use it is intended for and I am sure you have a clear idea of what you want it to be. I am merely expressing what I would be looking for beyond the very basic information that is already found on the Logos 6 new features page on Logos' website.

Also, and this is another suggestion, with regard to the wiki: I have used the search help pages in the past and found them very useful. However, I do not find the wiki website itself all that clear / practical to use. If it has not been done already, could not some of this be made into a personal book? I understand that the wiki is open to constant revisions and allows input from more users at a time. It is a strength and also a weakness. More users means that the material is not always of equal quality. But be that as it may -- and keeping in mind that I am not at present cognizant of all that would go into converting all this material to personal book format -- I do wonder if it could not be approached as beta releases of Logos: in other words, a new version with updates comes out every so often.

I am not sure how steadily the wiki material grows and how often a new release would be needed to avoid that the pbb be seriously outdated or behind its web-based counterpart. I am not advocating replacing the wiki altogether either. Just that much as it is more convenient to have wikipedia in Logos itself, I think it would be more convenient and powerful to have the wiki materials in Logos as well (again, if it does not exist already).

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Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 15 2014 1:43 AM

Francis:
If I may make a suggestion with regard to this exciting project -- and depending on how basic or detailed the video will be -- it would be useful if there were shorter but topic specific videos. 

That's what Logos are intending to do with this series. Is that what you had in mind? (I'm intending to do a few 5 minute videos like this.)

Francis:
If it has not been done already, could not some of this be made into a personal book?

It was done once, though it was a lot of work.

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Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 15 2014 2:01 AM

Mark Barnes:
That's what Logos are intending to do with this series. Is that what you had in mind?

Just looking at the topics, the duration of the videos but without having viewed any yet, I would think, yes, that's what I meant. 

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Michael | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 15 2014 2:58 AM

Mark Barnes:
Her eyes tend to glaze over when I launch into one of my explanations

That sounds like my wife! You're not a former engineer as well, are you? Wink

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 15 2014 3:02 AM

Mark Barnes:

Francis:
If it has not been done already, could not some of this be made into a personal book?

It was done once, though it was a lot of work.

I have a PB on the search well under way ... I've been working off answers in the forums from You, Dave and Fr. Devin. Francis if you and others can search the forums for examples you'd like to see in such a book - simple to complex - you could speed the process up a great deal. I've been trusting that Dave and Mark would proof read it, even if I was aiming at a smaller audience than the forum.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 15 2014 3:26 AM

MJ. Smith:
I've been working off answers in the forums from You, Dave and Fr. Devin

Do you mean Dave Hooton?

MJ. Smith:
Francis if you and others can search the forums for examples you'd like to see in such a book - simple to complex - you could speed the process up a great deal.

MJ, I would love to help and I think this is a GREAT project. I don't think I would have the time to scour the forums for what is already there because it is such a mess. So much information is buried deep into threads and it is not obvious that it is so from thread titles. But additionally, forums now contain a great mixture of material that pertains to previous versions/betas with what is still current or the latest. 

However, I do see as much more feasible to forward to you what comes up from now on (or has recently) in case you would not have seen it already yourself. 

I do have a suggestion in terms of methodology, though it is strictly speaking, now going well beyond converting the wiki material to pbb. I would love to see the use of each available search field illustrated. This could include a short explanation and a basic example. In time, new and exciting ideas that take advantage of such searches could be added in an "advance section". 

I assume you are, like me, and many others, limited in available time, so perhaps this is too ambitious a proposal for end-users.

I did have an idea that could help with this. For instance, in my mind, I see Mark as the most gifted of us in doing this kind of stuff. I think, from what I gather from his various posts, that he is a post-graduate researcher (though not sure). If he should be, he might be, like many others, short on funds. I think that, not thinking commercially at all, a bunch of us agreed to support an effort (say, a $1 paypal donation), it could compensation for such a substantial investment of time of benefit to us all. But perhaps Mark would not be interested or perhaps others would find this idea objectionable... Just thinking out loud.

Perhaps also, we could organize a collaborative project. For instance, some can be responsible for content (how to do searches) but others for formatting for pbb (milestones and the such). Instead of random contributions, there could be stubs that contributors can pick up when they have time and if they feel qualified to do so. 

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Fr Devin Roza | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 15 2014 3:33 AM

MJ. Smith:

I have a PB on the search well under way ... I've been working off answers in the forums from You, Dave and Fr. Devin. Francis if you and others can search the forums for examples you'd like to see in such a book - simple to complex - you could speed the process up a great deal. I've been trusting that Dave and Mark would proof read it, even if I was aiming at a smaller audience than the forum.

This is fantastic news, MJ. Can't wait to see it - are you preparing this to update the Wiki with? I'd be glad to give feedback on a prelive version as well.

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Jo Decaesteker | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 15 2014 4:28 AM

Wow, that will be very useful! Cheers!

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Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 15 2014 4:42 AM

Francis:
I see Mark as the most gifted of us in doing this kind of stuff

I thought I should clarify, MJ, that this is not intended to say that you are not, in my view, the person to do this. I see you, along with a number of other contributors, are very capable and useful contributors to these forums and am very much looking forward to your pbb!

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Bruce Dunning | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 15 2014 4:58 AM

MJ. Smith:
I have a PB on the search well under way

How exciting.

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fgh | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 15 2014 12:02 PM

Michael:
Just wanted to express my appreciation for your comments. It's one thing to know how to do something, but it's even better to know why something works the way it does. You frequently explain the why, which is very helpful!

Yes

Doc B:
A Vulcan mind-meld would be ideal, at this point.

Big SmileYes

Mark Barnes:
You should tell my wife that. Her eyes tend to glaze over when I launch into one of my explanations. It's why I come here Big Smile.

Give our thanks to your wife for making you come here.Big Smile

"The Christian way of life isn't so much an assignment to be performed, as a gift to be received."  Wilfrid Stinissen

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fgh | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 15 2014 12:50 PM

Jannie van Niekerk:
I have made note of the issues and will flag this resource for an update.

Jannie, I do hope that you also saw this:

MJ. Smith:

First. it seems to me that the effect of the current Faithlife prioritization scheme is to generate many hits on a few topics. I would rather that the concentrate first on broadening their topics. This would move things like the Jewish Encyclopedia up in priority. How many people own a resource is not a measure of the usefulness of tagging it. If most people owning it own similar items that are already tagged, the value of its tagging goes down.

Second, it seems to me that more advanced planning could make tagging more "automatic". For example, if datatypes had been designed for all the patristic and psuedepigraphia writings, the links could be made when a resource is created with the links leading "no where". When the target of the link is offered, all those links now become live without having to define a datatype and go back through all old resources. Yes, there will be some surprises but a big chunk of materials would be automatically covered.

YesYesYesYesYesYesYesYesYesYes

Besides the Jewish Encyclopedia, I would also like to push the various JPS and Liturgical Press dictionaries as ones sorely in need of tagging. 

"The Christian way of life isn't so much an assignment to be performed, as a gift to be received."  Wilfrid Stinissen

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Thinking | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 15 2014 12:53 PM

MJ. Smith:
I have a PB on the search well under way

I want it! I have compiled Fr, Devin's from one post as a PB. But to have many of these in one PB would be very helpful. I forget the exact syntax when I need it and can't always find them in posts. You will be doing us a great service.

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Unix | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 15 2014 12:59 PM

I'd have great use for it as well. I can post my email address, should I post my uni or proprietary firm address? I won't be uploading it one the web. I really need to get started with more advanced functionality:

Thinking:
I want it!:
MJ. Smith:
I have a PB on the search well under way

Aply!
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Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 15 2014 1:10 PM

Francis:
But perhaps Mark would not be interested or perhaps others would find this idea objectionable... Just thinking out loud.

This is a moot point now, but whilst I appreciate the thought, contributions couldn't speed me up. I don't have anything I could drop to make more room for this sort of thing. That said, I will continue to work on a few videos in my spare time.

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