Feedback on NT221 - The Wisdom of John

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This post has 30 Replies | 6 Followers

Posts 13397
Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Posted: Sat, Nov 15 2014 2:29 AM

I suspect that like many people NT221 is my first proper experience of Logos' Mobile Education, as I picked it up on a community pricing at a much more reasonable price than normal.

All I'm going to say is that if it was Logos' intention that picking up NT221 on the cheap would draw me in to spend megabucks on normally priced Mobile Ed packages, then it's working! I can certainly see the value much better. With all the required and 'see also' reading, there's going to be at least a couple of months worth of value for me from this one resource.

Posts 3222
Whyndell Grizzard | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 15 2014 2:49 AM

While I agree with your assessment of the products value, the cost is just to high. I will not be buying any unless there is a good sale or it goes through CP.

Just my opinion.

Posts 13397
Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 15 2014 4:25 AM

Whyndell Grizzard:
While I agree with your assessment of the products value, the cost is just to high. I will not be buying any unless there is a good sale or it goes through CP.

Yes. I still won't pay retail prices, but I have put in three Pre-Pub orders that cover 12 courses. The bigger bundles in particular are quite heavily discounted. The 9 volume Studies in the Gospels works out at  $17.63/hour on PrePub, whereas the one volume Greeks to Aquinas is $22.49/hr. At retail, the Witherington volume is $37.69/hour.

Posts 567
John Kaess | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 15 2014 4:41 AM

I like what i see.  However, i admit to being surprised at the number of resources i do not own which are part of the reading list for the class (downloaded from the faithlife group for this class).  I have logos 4 platinum, logos 5 platinum and logos 6 gold as well as many additional resources, yet i do not have about a third of the resources listed in the readings document.

Posts 3222
Whyndell Grizzard | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 15 2014 4:55 AM

John- that's one of the major issues with them- you find that in order to make it fully functional it cost hundreds or even thousands more in resources.

The resources themselves are "expensive"- then add the cost to make them functional- its gets way up there.

Posts 13397
Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 15 2014 5:24 AM

John Kaess:
I have logos 4 platinum, logos 5 platinum and logos 6 gold as well as many additional resources, yet i do not have about a third of the resources listed in the readings document.

If you have Logos 5 Platinum, you should have everything listed in the required reading. Anything you don't own should only be in the "See also" section.

Posts 567
John Kaess | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 15 2014 5:36 AM

Mark,

Have you looked at the Readings document from the Faithlife group?  The link to it is in the very beginning of the course.  It lists numerous resources I do not have including NIVAC volumes, NICNT volumes, Yale Bible volumes and others.  These are resources not available in any base package (well, no base package I can afford).

Posts 13397
Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 15 2014 7:10 AM

John Kaess:
Have you looked at the Readings document from the Faithlife group?  The link to it is in the very beginning of the course.  It lists numerous resources I do not have including NIVAC volumes, NICNT volumes, Yale Bible volumes and others.  These are resources not available in any base package (well, no base package I can afford).

Yes, I have that. I'm fortunate in that I've invested a lot in commentaries, so I have all the ones you mention.

I know there's a lot from the NIVAC and BECNT commentaries on John and Revelation, for example, as well an NICNT and A Theology of John's Gospel and Letters. But if you look, they come up in "See Also" section at the end of each unit, never the required reading. The commentaries for required reading are NAC, BNTC, College Presss NIV, and BCBC.

Posts 567
John Kaess | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 15 2014 7:38 AM

Thanks, Mark.  The readings document does not make that distinction.  I do have some of BECNT, as well as NAC, BNTC, BCBC, and Pillar.

i think it looks worthwhile to get A Theology of John's Gospel, but the Yale and NICNT, and NIVAC are out of reach at the moment.

thanks again.

Posts 1011
Mike Pettit | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 15 2014 8:19 AM

I do not like the fact that works are not properly referenced, for instance at the end of Segment 88 there is a suggested reading from "The return of the king", I do not have the resource so I click on it where it says I do not have the licence but when I then click on "visit logos.com"  it says that it cannot find the resource.

So I have no way of seeing what it is asking me to read, in the past this has been because the work is part of a larger set but that does not make finding it any easier. 

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Fr Devin Roza | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 15 2014 8:28 AM

Congrats to Faithlife and to Dr. Witherington for this resource - it's very well made.

So far my only complaint is the difficultly of managing the reading plan. There is obviously some sort of internal reading plan available (as the beginning and end of the the readings are marked, and you can click "Done" on the reading), but it seems we can't actually see the reading plan (apart from at the end of each lesson, of course). Or am I missing something?

When I saw I couldn't see the reading plan I hoping to be able to export the notes file in the "quotes" view to better manage the readings, but no luck there either, as (1) the print/export function doesn't work in the quotes view, and (2) it seems it is impossible to put the readings in their proper order in the quotes view.

My final hope was downloading the resource to the Android app... hoping that I would get the possibility to get access to the reading plan there. The Android / iOS would in fact be a great place to do the readings. Once again, no. 

Looking around in the forums, the best solution for this so far seems to be if someone takes the time to make a "Reading List"... ideally Faithlife could do this for each course, at least until we can see the reading plan for each course as a document we can actually access and use in the desktop and mobile apps. 

But, apart from these (minor really) reading plan woes it is quite impressive! Congrats to all and thanks! This resource is really amazing!

Posts 18867
Rosie Perera | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 15 2014 9:10 PM

Mike Pettit:

I do not like the fact that works are not properly referenced, for instance at the end of Segment 88 there is a suggested reading from "The return of the king", I do not have the resource so I click on it where it says I do not have the licence but when I then click on "visit logos.com"  it says that it cannot find the resource.

So I have no way of seeing what it is asking me to read, in the past this has been because the work is part of a larger set but that does not make finding it any easier. 

Yeah, I have that same problem. It's probably a resource that Logos no longer sells. Well then, they shouldn't be suggesting it as recommended reading in a brand new video course.

Wait, I figured out what it is by Googling the resource ID "RETPG:UGHM". Surprisingly, it's a resource on Vyrso.com, not on Logos.com!

It's a book by Ben Witherington himself. Here's the link for it:

https://vyrso.com/product/39199/revelation-and-the-end-times-participants-guide-unraveling-gods-message-of-hope 

It is a bug that when you don't own the book the link in Logos takes you to the wrong website to buy it!

Posts 1011
Mike Pettit | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 16 2014 2:22 AM

Rosie Perera:

Mike Pettit:

I do not like the fact that works are not properly referenced, for instance at the end of Segment 88 there is a suggested reading from "The return of the king", I do not have the resource so I click on it where it says I do not have the licence but when I then click on "visit logos.com"  it says that it cannot find the resource.

So I have no way of seeing what it is asking me to read, in the past this has been because the work is part of a larger set but that does not make finding it any easier. 

Yeah, I have that same problem. It's probably a resource that Logos no longer sells. Well then, they shouldn't be suggesting it as recommended reading in a brand new video course.

Wait, I figured out what it is by Googling the resource ID "RETPG:UGHM". Surprisingly, it's a resource on Vyrso.com, not on Logos.com!

It's a book by Ben Witherington himself. Here's the link for it:

https://vyrso.com/product/39199/revelation-and-the-end-times-participants-guide-unraveling-gods-message-of-hope 

It is a bug that when you don't own the book the link in Logos takes you to the wrong website to buy it!

I thought that I tried searching everything, but apparently not.

I hope that Logos fix this as it seems like a really silly "design feature" which would not be a material problem if they actually gave you a proper citation as well as a non functioning link.

Posts 1943
Kenneth Neighoff | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 16 2014 3:30 AM

People have been asking for a book list at the beginning of each mobile Ed course for a while now.  Hopefully it will come soon. 

In ED101, there is a book listed in the see also section, that is still in prepub, and it is part of a 6 volume set.  

Posts 567
John Kaess | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 16 2014 5:39 PM

I have now had time to thoroughly browse this course, and I must admit I am impressed.  As an undergrad (37 years ago) I took a 300 lvl elective in Johanine Writings at a Christian University which was much less thorough than this class is in covering the material.  I had been looking at this course as a review and refresher, but I now expect I will be learning some things too.

Posts 2038
Unix | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 16 2014 6:46 PM

Sounds terrific! If I'll be able to I'll fold the Community Pricing $41 into my payment plan (another option for me to finance it: https://community.logos.com/forums/p/95180/661329.aspx#661329):

John Kaess:
I had been looking at this course as a review and refresher, but I now expect I will be learning some things too.

Aply!
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Miles Custis | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 17 2014 9:02 AM

Kenneth Neighoff:

In ED101, there is a book listed in the see also section, that is still in prepub, and it is part of a 6 volume set.  

Kenneth, can you let me know where that link is? We normally don't add links to resources that have not been produced.

Posts 334
Paul Strickert | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 17 2014 9:28 AM

Whyndell Grizzard:

While I agree with your assessment of the products value, the cost is just to high. I will not be buying any unless there is a good sale or it goes through CP.

Just my opinion.

I hear you, Whyndell.  I bought NT221 on CP and, while I'm enjoying it, I shudder at the retail price of nearly $500.  The transcript, if published as a book, might be worth $50.  Is putting the transcript into a video format worth 10x that much?  I'm not convinced, though I guess I'd have to think about it. 

Posts 1943
Kenneth Neighoff | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 17 2014 9:42 AM

Miles Custis:

Kenneth Neighoff:

In ED101, there is a book listed in the see also section, that is still in prepub, and it is part of a 6 volume set.  

Kenneth, can you let me know where that link is? We normally don't add links to resources that have not been produced.

Miles,

i am going from memory, plus I'm on my IPad but will double check on computer late this evening.  It is in segment 8 under the section called, see also and has this as a reference- The Depth of the Scandal SEC 

Posts 945
Everett Headley | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 17 2014 12:37 PM

My feedback is this:

1.  The content seems to be very good.  The videos are well done and it all works seamlessly with Logos as you would expect.

2.  I've not had any linking issues yet, but I'm not as far into as others.

3.  My thoughts on these courses is all about the money.  For this to not be an accredited course, anything breaking it down "per credit hour" to me is useless.  This course at the CP price is probably worth it because of it being integrated into my library.  However, there are other very similar courses for FREE; similar authors, subjects, structure.  I don't know Logos internal business plan, but with what else is out there I don't know how they will compete at the current pricing.

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