When is a person not a person?

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John Brumett | Forum Activity | Posted: Thu, Nov 20 2014 6:52 AM

I would like the ability to search for all Biblical People in Romans 16 or anywhere in the Bible.  I know that Phoebe is listed as a person and I can search for all the places she is found in the text. I tried to search for persons in Romans 16 and Person or People is only mentioned by Topic or in the sense lexicon.  I would like the results to be like what is mentioned in the Passage Guide section of Biblical People.   

I would also like the ability to search for all the cities mentioned in Paul's 1st Missionary Journey (using proper names)

I would like to search for all the Nations mentioned in the Book of Jeremiah or All the women in the Bible.   

I guess I asking to tag the broadest categories to accomplish these searches.  

    

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John Brumett | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 20 2014 7:27 AM

Is there anyone else that would see this type of search useful?  

Are there any plans in the future to make these searches possible?

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LimJK | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 20 2014 7:54 AM

John,

Long time ago, I have suggested make the individual Biblical People, Places, Things, etc Applets available to us.

Anyway have you looked at Tools -> Explorer to look for Biblical People in a Verse, Chapter, Book or Range of Book. For the fun of it I did Genesis - Revelation :-)

JK

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Fred Chapman | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 20 2014 8:30 AM

Using Clause Search you can enter person:ANY and it will return all of the passages which include references to people in the specified range. The same applies to places.

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John Brumett | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 20 2014 8:33 AM

LimJK:
Anyway have you looked at Tools -> Explorer to look for Biblical People in a Verse, Chapter, Book or Range of Book.

This is closer to what I want but I would like the verses listed for each person in a specific passage.  I would like to search my bible for these broad categories and then list the results in the analysis view by order of hits.  I could also create a visual filter for the search results.  

If I search for all the nations mentioned by Jeremiah I could find that he mentions Babylon 20 times, Assyria 15 times, ect.  This type of seach would be very powerful and beneficial.      

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John Brumett | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 20 2014 8:46 AM

Fredc:
Using Clause Search you can enter person:ANY and it will return all of the passages which include references to people in the specified range. The same applies to places.

Thanks Fred.  Is this available for any English Translation such as the NKJV?  Could I create a visual filter in the NKJV from the results?  

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Fred Chapman | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 20 2014 9:03 AM

I am not sure if that would be possible or not. I do not use Visual Filters that much. My initial thought would be no. But perhaps one of the Visual Filter gurus has a better answer.

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Fr Devin Roza | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 20 2014 9:33 AM

John Brumett:

LimJK:
Anyway have you looked at Tools -> Explorer to look for Biblical People in a Verse, Chapter, Book or Range of Book.

This is closer to what I want but I would like the verses listed for each person in a specific passage.  I would like to search my bible for these broad categories and then list the results in the analysis view by order of hits.  I could also create a visual filter for the search results.  

If I search for all the nations mentioned by Jeremiah I could find that he mentions Babylon 20 times, Assyria 15 times, ect.  This type of seach would be very powerful and beneficial.      

This is a great idea. Something like this is already possible with the Biblical Sense Lexicon, where you can search for meaning and all their submeanings. What you are asking for is that persons, places, and things be also organized in a hierarchical fashion, so that Peter would be under Person, Disciple, Apostle, etc. and Assyria would be under Nations, along with Moab, etc. You could then search for the genus entry and find all species underneath within a text, like Jeremiah.

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Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 20 2014 9:44 AM

John Brumett:

I would like the ability to search for all Biblical People in Romans 16 or anywhere in the Bible.  I know that Phoebe is listed as a person and I can search for all the places she is found in the text. I tried to search for persons in Romans 16 and Person or People is only mentioned by Topic or in the sense lexicon.  I would like the results to be like what is mentioned in the Passage Guide section of Biblical People.   

I would also like the ability to search for all the cities mentioned in Paul's 1st Missionary Journey (using proper names)

I would like to search for all the Nations mentioned in the Book of Jeremiah or All the women in the Bible.   

If this already works in the Passage Guide, why not use the passage guide (or better, create a custom passage guide with just the sections you want)? In other words, why do you want something new if you can already do it using the PG?

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Eli Evans (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 20 2014 9:54 AM

Yes, this is a very good idea. Sort of an interactive concordance where the headings are individual people, places, things -- or lemmas, roots, morphs, senses -- anything you could extract from the text by type. The closest way to approximate this now is with the Analysis view of Clause search, but the one thing it doesn't do is group by type. I'm adding it to our list of things to consider for future versions.

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Fr Devin Roza | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 20 2014 10:11 AM

Thanks Eli!

BTW, to illustrate how powerful this type of hierarchical organization of Factbook entries could be, I just posted an example of the concept, but as already possible in the <Sense> search. https://community.logos.com/forums/t/96461.aspx 

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Fr Devin Roza | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 20 2014 10:39 AM

Eli Evans:

Sort of an interactive concordance where the headings are individual people, places, things -- or lemmas, roots, morphs, senses -- anything you could extract from the text by type. 

I have previously asked for what you are proposing, an interactive concordance of <References>, in order to study what types of sources are cited by such and such a person, book, etc. For example, some Bibles have cross-references. How about being able to compare what books and chapters of the Old Testament that Luke "cross-references" (according to, say, the ESV cross-references) in the Gospel with those of Acts. In the beta I suggested applying this to Lk 1-2 as opposed to the rest of the Gospel, to study what some scholars propose, that 1-2 comes from a different source.

Or the same with modern authors. Get a concordance of books and times the Dead Sea Scrolls are cited by commentaries in the 1960's and then compare that to commentaries from 2010 and later. Same with other types of sources. You could easily see how certain sources become more or less influential over time. Etc.

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John Brumett | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 20 2014 2:43 PM

Mark Barnes:
If this already works in the Passage Guide, why not use the passage guide (or better, create a custom passage guide with just the sections you want)? In other words, why do you want something new if you can already do it using the PG?

Mark:  

1.  The results in the Passage Guide are not automatically marked in my Bible

2.  I can't sort the results by count

3.  I can't make a visual filter out of the results in the Passage Guide

4.  In larger searches the Passage Guide is too slow in generating results vs. a Bible search

5.  There are other broad categorizes that are not included in the Passage Guide such as all Nations mentioned by the prophet Jeremiah. 

I only used Romans 16 as an example of what I would like in Bible Searches.  Give us the broad categories.  All Nations, all people (not just generic ones)(Proper Names) all cities (proper Names).    

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David P. Moore | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 28 2014 8:29 PM

John Brumett:
This is closer to what I want but I would like the verses listed for each person in a specific passage.  I would like to search my bible for these broad categories and then list the results in the analysis view by order of hits.  I could also create a visual filter for the search results.  

I'm late to this discussion, but for the record I think a Low-Nida seach will do what you want for Romans 16:

Of course Louw Nida searches only apply to the NT. Let me know if I'm off base here.

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 29 2014 2:32 AM

John Brumett:
I would also like the ability to search for all the cities mentioned in Paul's 1st Missionary Journey (using proper names)

With Louw-Nida  the range for Places is 93.389 - 93.615. So you can find all the cities mentioned by searching for <ln 93.389-615>  in Acts 13-14. With Logos 6 you can use the event <Event Paul’s first missionary journey> and the the new {Section} extension to find the cities *within* the text that covers the event i.e.

<ln 93.389-615> WITHIN {Section <Event Paul’s first missionary journey>}

I'm not certain how you could search for *all* cities using proper names  e.g. Lystra? You could ascertain if a city was mentioned in the journey e.g.

<Place Lystra> WITHIN {Section <Event Paul’s first missionary journey>}

Dave
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