To those unhappy with Logos communication during outage

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This post has 81 Replies | 6 Followers

Posts 92
Martin Diers | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 23 2014 9:30 AM

And here is an opinion from someone who lives in the service provider side of cloud services:

When you move your services to the cloud, redundancy is not optional. You need everything to be redundant: Your servers, your network back hauls, your switching stack, your DNS providers, your virtual servers should be in multiple regions, and you should have in place a tested and verified procedure for disaster recovery by simulating a failure before it happens.

It is true that we, as users, should plan for outages. Thank God for the desktop version of Logos, where I have my entire library already downloaded. But when a company such as Logos makes the move to providing cloud-based services, they have a fiduciary responsibility to plan for failure - even catastrophic failure - even a "main building got bombed" failure.

So on the one hand, stop bugging Logos, and let them get the job done. I've been in their shoes. It's not pretty, and when the villagers are storming the castle with torches and pitchforks, it's not going to help get things fixed any faster.

But once the dust settles, and Logos has the application stack back up and running, they do have some explaining to do.

Frankly, I cannot trust the mobile platform at all at this point. Anything that is relying upon their servers being up should be looked upon with skepticism. Don't trust it to be there when you need it.

I hope this changes eventually, but Logos will have to rebuild our trust to get there.

Posts 77
Rob | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 23 2014 9:59 AM

Brother Paul,

Things are not that simple. We are no longer in the age where only people with technical skills use computing devices. When my wife turns on her iPad she expects it to work and to see her stuff. She doesn't know anything about redundancy, or backups. Those things never cross her mind.

How many people do you think are inconvenienced when gmail goes down? I don't think that very many of them have a backup plan.

Paul Coleman:

Redundancy -- As one who also makes presentations, has taught classes in a tech environment, and has led group studies, I know that I am responsible for my own redundant options - I should not assume that a single service will be available at the moment I need it. Thus, my notes, slides, optional information and such, are saved locally, copies uploaded to a second cloud location, and I must also have a secondary Internet connection option readily available.

Posts 11
Alan Kinder | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 23 2014 11:36 AM

Well, I have never used Logos to preach from.  I type my notes in Word format, save in PDF, and use a PDF reader on my iPad for those notes.  Proclaim never made an impression with me, seemed to complex for what we try and do...

That being said, any failure in a complex system points out unforeseen weaknesses in a system.  We can MMQ (Monday morning quarterback) the problem form out lofty perches...or we can simply wait for the problem to be resolved.

This failure just happened to hit while I was trying to do an O/S upgrade on my desktop in my office, so I lost all of my resources on my desktop until the Logos servers come back to life...hopefully by Monday...otherwise it will be working from my laptop...

Posts 5232
Dan Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 23 2014 1:55 PM

This is an upsetting turn of events. But there are other Bible softwares out there that do not rely on servers, if you use Logos you have to live with the limitations there are. I will admit i was a big disappointed to learn that in the event of Logos going offline or disappearing the mobile apps will no longer function with our downloaded books, but this is not overly surprising to me either. Hopefully this will not happen again (we are told a back up is being set up, hindsight says it should have been before this but again not the end of the world), but all in all it is an inconvenience and not a disaster. 

-Dan

Posts 3937
abondservant | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 23 2014 2:04 PM

Stuff happens; unfortunately even to logos.  hope they are able to get back to their weekend (or what's left) soon.

sounded to me like they had already begun the redundancy (not as ideal as a different region, but I digress) Process. They will get it sorted in time. Until then I am glad that I have redundancy.

L2 lvl4, L3 Scholars, L4 Scholars, L5 Platinum,  L6 Collectors. L7 Baptist Portfolio. L8 Baptist Platinum.

Posts 8798
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Bruce Dunning | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 23 2014 3:27 PM

abondservant:
Until then I am glad that I have redundancy.

Yes, this is a good reminder for us to also have redundancy on a personal level. I now do a full "system image" of my main hard drive each week alternating between two different backup drives. I had to learn the hard way.

Using adventure and community to challenge young people to continually say "yes" to God

Posts 2016
GaoLu | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 23 2014 3:55 PM

It's been several months since I backed up kit and caboodle.  This is a dramatic reminder that it is high time.    

Posts 2756
Erwin Stull, Sr. | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 23 2014 4:06 PM

At the very least, I backup Logos, My Documents, and a few other very important folders. I don't bother too much anymore with the full system backups.

I make sure that I have a copy of each programs installation files and SN's in the event that I have to reinstall anything.

Posts 8798
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Bruce Dunning | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 23 2014 4:09 PM

Erwin Stull, Sr.:
At the very least, I backup Logos, My Documents, and a few other very important folders.

I should clarify that I also back up all my Logos files each week by using a script that I had set up which updates anything that changes from week to week.

Erwin Stull, Sr.:
I don't bother too much anymore with the full system backups.

I do a system backup also for the simplicity of being able to get back to where I was quickly in case of a major failure.

Using adventure and community to challenge young people to continually say "yes" to God

Posts 589
Ted Weis | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 23 2014 4:21 PM

As far as the academic world is concerned, this is the WORST possible weekend for a break down, because this was the weekend meeting of the Society for Biblical Literature and American Academy of Religion (SBL-AAR). In fact, it has to be embarrassing.

Posts 18577
Rosie Perera | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 23 2014 11:52 PM

Ted Weis:

As far as the academic world is concerned, this is the WORST possible weekend for a break down, because this was the weekend meeting of the Society for Biblical Literature and American Academy of Religion (SBL-AAR). In fact, it has to be embarrassing.

And Bob Pritchett was there, as he posted Friday on the thread which is soon to be deleted (but this quote saved here for posterity):

Bob Pritchett:
I am hearing you. I have read every post, and will continue to follow the conversation closely. (I am at ETS and AAR/SBL, so I can't post all day, but will when I can.)

I think it would have been helpful if Bob himself had posted a reassuring note that he was aware of what was going on over the past two days with the server outage, and that he would take steps when he got back to be sure it never happened again.

Martin Diers:

And here is an opinion from someone who lives in the service provider side of cloud services:

When you move your services to the cloud, redundancy is not optional. You need everything to be redundant: Your servers, your network back hauls, your switching stack, your DNS providers, your virtual servers should be in multiple regions, and you should have in place a tested and verified procedure for disaster recovery by simulating a failure before it happens.

Logos needs to hire you, Martin!

Posts 237
Alexxy Olu | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 24 2014 2:10 AM

 

First, thank you Faithlife Team for bringing the system back to life, and thank you too everyone that was praying.

I think both the Faithlife Team / company and we the customers have a common interest: both the Company and the bible software system must consistently deliver optimum service where and as when required. It then follows that neither side will deliberately do anything that will jeopardize the good health of any part of or the whole system.

With that in mind, as far as I can remember since I have been using this Logos bible software, what happened to the whole system these last few days is the worst accident I have witnessed.

I do hope that when the dust has settled (very quickly I hope too):

  • Faithlife will diligently identify the issues and begin to address them with alacrity, and with the aim of reducing to the barest minimum the possibility of such damaging disruption happening again. I know this is something made by man and like most things from man, failure at some point is inherent in it. But such failure can be so reduced that the consequences will be very minimal.  
  • We, the customers should diligently revisit our response to things when the system is not able to deliver optimally as it should for whatever reason: paying special attention to how we can best be supportive and helpful while putting our complaints and problems forward to those who can do something about them, and while making our frustrations known too at such times.

For am sure that just as the customers were shocked, perplexed, angry and frustrated as they were caught unawares with some not having credible alternatives or backups, the Faithlife team must have been angry at themselves for being caught unawares to such devastating effect for so long, and would have been severely stretched and stressed too in their attempts to resuscitate the system.

I want to believe that all stake holders (the company and those who use their services) belong to the family of faith. Let us all therefore keep all parties or stakeholders in our prayers as I believe we are also praying people.

May the Almighty God:

  • grant that any fractures in the relationship between Faithlife and its customers be quickly repaired, healed and restored;
  • uphold the Faithlife Team / company and all theirs, give them the wisdom and diligence and whatever resources they need to make the software the best bible software in the world and also much less expensive;
  • bless and keep all Logos bible software users and all theirs, give all of us the wisdom and love that we need to put the software and what we acquire through its use to the best interest and benefit of our fellowmen, drawing many more into His kingdom; and to through all our efforts continue to honour and glorify Him every day;
  • LORD, ever draw ALL of us closer to you, in Jesus’ Name, Amen.
Posts 124
Donald G. Fisher | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 24 2014 5:24 AM

As I posted in another thread, as much as I appreciate the Logos software, it is still more business than ministry.  The money that many of us have invested in Logos, for me it has been over 15 years, would demand that contingencies be available for every type of service disruption.  The turn around time for this resolution comparable to other IT services would not rank high.  This post is not meant to kick the Logos employees down but a reminder that as a business the company as an obligation to do better, much better.  I was shocked that I couldn't even bring up the Logos website for a lengthy amount of time.  When it was available, there wasn't a good explanation of what was happening and what would be the resolution time.  I still promote Logos to every pastor and missionary I meet but until this weekend, I didn't know the potential of not having access to your own data.  For those who have said that we should rely on the Holy Spirit and Logos in other posts, that is a red herring.  I have not read any mean spirited or any snarky posts regarding this weekend's events.  Just the frustration that paying customers expect from any company with which they are doing business with.

Don

Posts 279
Sean McIntyre | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 24 2014 5:45 AM
It seems to me that every time something like this happens that voices get raised about how we all need to be more gracious. However, I have not heard anything ungracious in the forums. Some of us have been quite direct about our dissatisfaction and expectations of a business. And that's what logos is, a business. They are not made of eggshells and a bit of criticism won't hurts them. Actually, it will help them.
Posts 1281
toughski | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 24 2014 8:33 AM

Wayne Clarke:
These types of troubles are great opportunities for the Marketing department at Faithlife to kick into gear (yes, even on a weekend) and make some posts and try to alleviate ill will via the various social media sites that Faithlife leverages for sales and marketing purposes.  Eight hours ago was the last time an update to the Logos Facebook page was made and nine hours for Twitter.

What a novel idea, using the Marketing team to "alleviate ill will" and market Good Will Wink

Posts 1281
toughski | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 24 2014 8:39 AM

Cynthia in Florida:

Every day, when my children walk out the door, I say the same thing.  The conversation goes like this.

Me:  "Remember..."

Son:  "I know Mom, Who I am and Whose I am."

Me:  "Who are you?"

Son:  "I am Luke F. and I represent this family and its name."

Me:  "Whose are you?"

Son: "I am son to the King Most High, a physical representative of God in Heaven."

Me: "Okay, sweetie.  Have fun and remember to represent both with honor."

awesome advice and reminder. Good job, mom!

Posts 113
Mark Prim | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 24 2014 9:01 AM

Correct me if I am wrong, but Charles Spurgeon did not have Logos or Proclaim and he did okay. Right? If we are relying on tech tools to make "our" message more appealing to the congregation, then we forgot it is supposed to be about "His" message. These tools are great, and I am glad Faithlife has developed them, but when they become a crutch in presenting the Gospel we begin to border on idolatry of the tools. Oh yeah, while I'm thinking about it...Peter did not have either tool, and faced physical punishment, he did okay too.

Posts 1281
toughski | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 24 2014 9:10 AM

Paul Coleman:

Redundancy -- As one who also makes presentations, has taught classes in a tech environment, and has led group studies, I know that I am responsible for my own redundant options - I should not assume that a single service will be available at the moment I need it. Thus, my notes, slides, optional information and such, are saved locally, copies uploaded to a second cloud location, and I must also have a secondary Internet connection option readily available.

The complainers here have simply forgotten this simple self sourced basic rule of thumb regarding all things tech. Datacenters are not immune to failures. I once worked in one where both the primary and secondary backup options failed in the same day. Stuff happens. The end user will do well to be thankful they have the sort of tech we do, but always assume responsibility for their own secondary access options.

There are 2 sides to the coin, Paul.

First of all, I totally agree with you. Ultimately we as users have the responsibility for our stuff and our tools. But this leads me to the other side of the coin: It would be wonderful for Logos to design a system where users could backup their MOBILE downloaded books, notes, etc.

Posts 1281
toughski | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 24 2014 9:16 AM

Rosie Perera:
I think it would have been helpful if Bob himself had posted a reassuring note that he was aware of what was going on over the past two days with the server outage, and that he would take steps when he got back to be sure it never happened again.

emphasis mine Yes

Posts 787
James Hiddle | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 24 2014 9:28 AM

Cynthia in Florida:

A viewpoint from a non-technical, side... (Directed at no one in particular).

Honestly, I am shocked, and somewhat embarrassed by the behavior and language some displayed the last couple of days on this forum.  When did having the right to voice an opinion give a license to speak so rudely and without love?  Between the unbelievably distasteful, inappropriate remarks on the "dating" thread and the reaction I have read about Logos being down, I wonder what our Savior thinks about how we Christians are representing Him.

Every day, when my children walk out the door, I say the same thing.  The conversation goes like this.

Me:  "Remember..."

Son:  "I know Mom, Who I am and Whose I am."

Me:  "Who are you?"

Son:  "I am Luke F. and I represent this family and its name."

Me:  "Whose are you?"

Son: "I am son to the King Most High, a physical representative of God in Heaven."

Me: "Okay, sweetie.  Have fun and remember to represent both with honor."

I know it sounds cheesy, but I did it with my daughter (now 24 in grad school) and now my son (who is 16).  My daughter told me that while she would role her eyes every time here at home, she found that now that she is  in college, she still can hear that dialogue in her head every time she walks out the door.

I guess my point is that we need to behave the same on line as we do IRL, which makes me wonder if some of those who speak so rudely in the virtual world behave the same IRL.  I understand that frustrations, such as the site being down, can cause us to be "snappy," but I am also reminded that the core of who we are is manifested more in how we RE-act than how we act.

Just saying...

Amen Sister in Christ Yes

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