To those unhappy with Logos communication during outage

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This post has 81 Replies | 6 Followers

Posts 8
Paul Coleman | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 24 2014 9:30 AM

Agreed. In another post I suggested that a software modification that allows Logos to run regardless of network or datacenter status as a default. Another idea might include LAN syncing. I certainly value the fact that my devices all have access to the data I create. I have a couple of apps/software that have LAN syncing as an option and have proved invaluable during a handful of times when my gateway was not available.

That said, once Logos came back online for me this morning, I changed the automatic update option in Tools to "not" automatically update. With it enabled, a notification appears regarding any updates of library additions that are ready to be added. This way, I can ignore the updates and get on with my use of the program instead of waiting for many minutes (most of the time) before I can use the software. I have left the "Internet Services" option enabled for some features on because I am not sure if turning it off will affect my personal data/doc syncs.

While there are probably many things that will have to be dealt with by the IT team in the postmortem meetings, I am still happy with the overall performance and the increased research capabilities I have using it and look forward to some changes that might help in avoiding this rare catastrophic failure and its affects.

Posts 8
Paul Coleman | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 24 2014 9:46 AM

My wife is also one of those who just expect everything to work. Smile I think my posts have become a bit spread out over this forum but in them I have pointed out both the necessity of cloud service redundancy and some personal responsibility to create our own backups of critical data. I understand that it does/may require software to include offline backup options that may or may not be a part of the package. To this end, it may be a good time, during the postmortem meetings to address and research the end user option -- potentially making local host backups the default. The point is that with some of us relying rather heavily on our Logos library for research, any datacenter problem, or ease of access to our own work, should be all but invisible -- connectivity and database access problems should not affect the immediate user interface. I do understand that some users with smaller systems and storage capabilities would find they will have to rely almost completely on cloud redundancy. For those of us (I have multiple terabytes of storage because of my IT background as a network engineer) that have the capacity for local storage the default local backup might be rather useful. At this point, however, I am more concerned about Logos working only on my local host because my intent for purchasing it was to allow me to take my work (research and ministry) into areas without any, or any reliable, Internet access. In other words, I need Logos to work well on a non-connected host.

Posts 8
Paul Coleman | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 24 2014 9:55 AM

The responses here have been much better than some I came across in other media sites. One pastor, whom I will not name because I prefer to assume he was just having a "really bad day", ranted at such volume as to cause me some concern about his church. I will just leave it at that. There is no real good reason to not address this matter in a civil and adult manner. You are right about Logos being a business and that this event will give occasion for improvement.

Posts 411
George | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 24 2014 10:57 AM

Mark Prim:

Correct me if I am wrong, but Charles Spurgeon did not have Logos or Proclaim and he did okay. Right? If we are relying on tech tools to make "our" message more appealing to the congregation, then we forgot it is supposed to be about "His" message. These tools are great, and I am glad Faithlife has developed them, but when they become a crutch in presenting the Gospel we begin to border on idolatry of the tools. Oh yeah, while I'm thinking about it...Peter did not have either tool, and faced physical punishment, he did okay too.

Yes 

Sometimes we act like the Holy Spirit is wringing His hands wondering what He is going to do when some pastor's Logos desktop won't start or can't use his blessed I-phone or Android. 

Posts 1922
Mark | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 24 2014 11:01 AM

Yes

Posts 32
Colby E. Kinser | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 24 2014 11:31 AM

I wonder how much of the outrage is from lack of humility - that a cloud disconnect would dare interfere with my goals, my convenience, and my looking good in the pulpit. Why else would there be so much bitterness?

The cloud has inherent risks - it could be an internet service provider that goes down, not Logos / Faithlife, and we'd have the same inability to get to cloud-based services.

Caveat emptor with the cloud. Plan for outages. I'm high-risk - running everything on a Chromebook. Still, there are ways to plan for outages even on that cloud-centric platform. It's just wisdom knowing we rely on imperfect systems and then planning accordingly.

Perhaps some of the rage should be directed inward for not adequately planning for outages, which inevitably occur. A little foresight, and this outage would not cripple anyone.

Logos inconvenienced me this weekend, at worst. But my responsibility to God's people is not contingent on the internet being on 24x7.

If Logos / Faithlife needs to make business or technical changes as a result, they've already said they would, and we don't need to heap burning coals on their head.

Posts 2
Michael T. Ward | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 24 2014 12:47 PM

I can't complain.  Logos has done well by me 99 percent of the time!  I'll take those odds any day!

Posts 32
Colby E. Kinser | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 24 2014 2:11 PM

Yes

Posts 2021
GaoLu | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 24 2014 3:39 PM

Mark Prim:

Correct me if I am wrong, but Charles Spurgeon did not have Logos or Proclaim and he did okay. Right? If we are relying on tech tools to make "our" message more appealing to the congregation, then we forgot it is supposed to be about "His" message. These tools are great, and I am glad Faithlife has developed them, but when they become a crutch in presenting the Gospel we begin to border on idolatry of the tools. Oh yeah, while I'm thinking about it...Peter did not have either tool, and faced physical punishment, he did okay too.

Probably he didn't. I wasn't actually there.  But....think what he could have done if he did have Logos!  And James and Peter and Paul and Luther and Calvin and our own dear Pastor Gargle--imagine if they all had Logos! I wonder if they are all (except Pst. Gargle) up in Heaven looking down drooling. 

Aye, but the times they are good.    

Posts 8893
fgh | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 24 2014 8:00 PM

Ted Weis:
As far as the academic world is concerned, this is the WORST possible weekend for a break down, because this was the weekend meeting of the Society for Biblical Literature and American Academy of Religion (SBL-AAR). In fact, it has to be embarrassing.

I do hope none of them had a presentation that required online access during the outing! That would really be embarrassing. Not to talk about the poor sales folks. Imagine trying to sell Proclaim this weekend...Tongue Tied

Yet, in spite of all that, every other weekend around now may have been even worse. The last weekend in October would have meant they'd had to postpone the launch. The following two weekends would have meant severe losses in sales, as would next weekend with Black Friday. And last weekend would presumably have meant postponing the launch party.

"The Christian way of life isn't so much an assignment to be performed, as a gift to be received."  Wilfrid Stinissen

Mac Pro OS 10.9.

Posts 183
Bryan S. | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 24 2014 8:58 PM

Paul Coleman:
In another post I suggested that a software modification that allows Logos to run regardless of network or datacenter status as a default. Another idea might include LAN syncing. I certainly value the fact that my devices all have access to the data I create. I have a couple of apps/software that have LAN syncing as an option and have proved invaluable during a handful of times when my gateway was not available.

I would like this type of modification as well. When I first bought L5 a few months ago then upgraded to L6 I told the salesman that I was somewhat disappointed that I could not buy it as a stand alone program, I am not a fan of having to use the web for some of my program. I want to be able to take my laptop to the cabin work on what I want to and back up to my own external hard drive. I currently back up several computers to an external hard drive because I realize how important my work is. In contrast if i have to use there system as part of the process 1.) it limits my work when I do not have a connection and 2.) it's faithlife's way of trying to CONTROL me and what I do AND I DO NOT LIKE THAT AT ALL!!!

WHY CANT ALL ASPECTS OF THE PROGRAM L6 I PURCHASED BE STANDALONE FROM MY OWN COMPUTER!!!! I wouldn't need to worry about your stinking website problems. Just my .02

Christianity has not been tried and found wanting; it's been found difficult and not tried.

Posts 2465
Lee | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 24 2014 9:06 PM

Bryan Strickland:

WHY CANT ALL ASPECTS OF THE PROGRAM L6 I PURCHASED BE STANDALONE FROM MY OWN COMPUTER!!!! I wouldn't need to worry about your stinking website problems. Just my .02

Some functionality is designed to work on-line only because of the huge size of the files, e.g. Atlas.

There's also functionality that's innately internet- or cloud-based, e.g. Wikipedia

You can work in offline mode.

Personally, I'm no fan of online mode. But 99% of the time it does not affect my use of the program.

Posts 183
Bryan S. | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 24 2014 9:29 PM

Lee:

Some functionality is designed to work on-line only because of the huge size of the files, e.g. Atlas.

There's also functionality that's innately internet- or cloud-based, e.g. Wikipedia

You can work in offline mode.

Personally, I'm no fan of online mode. But 99% of the time it does not affect my use of the program.

I agree with you, I work off line a lot as well, but shouldn't it be MY CHOICE to buy and decide whats too big. Maby a standalone program and a cloud base like the one we have for people who are cramped for space. I have the room on my computers. this laptop has L6, Proclame, and MS office thats it. Its my work computer and I bought it just for This...

Christianity has not been tried and found wanting; it's been found difficult and not tried.

Posts 2465
Lee | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 24 2014 10:12 PM

Bryan Strickland:

 I have the room on my computers. this laptop has L6, Proclame, and MS office thats it. Its my work computer and I bought it just for This...

All the Atlas map images take up more than 15 TB, IIRC. Now, the map-set can be vastly reduced if the Atlas uses vectorized maps, and hence become downloadable in its entirety. Logos is looking into it.

Suggestion to Logos: Institute middle-ground, user-selectable option. Work in on-line mode, with cloud features (selectively) disabled. For haters of Facebook etc. or for other reasons.

Posts 26026
Forum MVP
MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 24 2014 10:25 PM

Bryan Strickland:

WHY CANT ALL ASPECTS OF THE PROGRAM L6 I PURCHASED BE STANDALONE FROM MY OWN COMPUTER!!!! I wouldn't need to worry about your stinking website problems. Just my .02

No need to shout - just use a bit of logic. Since L4 there have been fetures that were dependent upon the internet because the content is constantly changing and belongs to a 3rd party - Sermon Central, Wikipedia et. al. And Logos gave the sizes of the Atlas so we would understand why it was not on our desktop. We know exactly which features require the internet. If we choose not to use them, we have a stand alone desktop system. If we choose to use them, we are dependent on at least 5 separate internet content providers. It's your choice. You are not being "controlled" by Faithlife so cut the .... and feel free to state you opinion reasonably. It appears you wish to not use the internet features; so don't.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 183
Bryan S. | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 24 2014 11:10 PM

MJ. Smith:
You are not being "controlled" by Faithlife so cut the .... and feel free to state you opinion reasonably. It appears you wish to not use the internet features; so don't.

It's my personal opinion, I'm entitled to it and its not your place to tell me how I should feel so get over it...and further more if I want a program that is stand alone so I can walk away from Faith life when I choose I should have that choice... If I never visit there site again it should be my choice... I should be given that choice, if i want to use the ENTIRE program when and where i want to I can't. I'm always attached i cant cut the cord and that's is there way of trying to control me, to funnel me to there books and software every time I use the program and I personally don't like it... Every time i open up a guide, oh here is some books you should buy, I own it and here they are butting there nose in on my bible study trying to sell me something...most apps I buy so they are ad free but not an 1800 dollar program and there not trying to control me SURE...

Christianity has not been tried and found wanting; it's been found difficult and not tried.

Posts 183
Bryan S. | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 24 2014 11:15 PM

MJ. Smith:
Since L4 there have been fetures that were dependent upon the internet because the content is constantly changing and belongs to a 3rd party - Sermon Central,

I can also visit third party sites without Logos 6 like sermon central and there free...

Christianity has not been tried and found wanting; it's been found difficult and not tried.

Posts 183
Bryan S. | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 24 2014 11:20 PM

Paul Coleman:
I am more concerned about Logos working only on my local host because my intent for purchasing it was to allow me to take my work (research and ministry) into areas without any, or any reliable, Internet access. In other words, I need Logos to work well on a non-connected host.

YesYesYes

Christianity has not been tried and found wanting; it's been found difficult and not tried.

Posts 26026
Forum MVP
MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 24 2014 11:38 PM

Bryan Strickland:

Paul Coleman:
I am more concerned about Logos working only on my local host because my intent for purchasing it was to allow me to take my work (research and ministry) into areas without any, or any reliable, Internet access. In other words, I need Logos to work well on a non-connected host.

YesYesYes

Faithlife has consistently recognized this need of a number of their users. That is why you can run the application in offline mode only checking onto the internet every few months to update software and add resources, if desired. While I agree with those who believe strongly that this ability must be maintained, that doesn't mean that others can't be linked to the internet if they find it useful. After all I wouldn't buy a car that didn't have a low gear for extreme conditions (and starting/stopping) but that doesn't mean I never want to use the freeway.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 26026
Forum MVP
MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 24 2014 11:41 PM

Bryan Strickland:

MJ. Smith:
You are not being "controlled" by Faithlife so cut the .... and feel free to state you opinion reasonably. It appears you wish to not use the internet features; so don't.

It's my personal opinion, I'm entitled to it and its not your place to tell me how I should feel so get over it...

If you don't want a response don't post it. Entitlement Is not a word used frequently in my social circles.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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