Are you on a Mac?

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This post has 32 Replies | 3 Followers

Posts 203
Jeffrey S. Robison | Forum Activity | Posted: Fri, Nov 28 2014 7:23 AM

This is not a complaint... this is a concern and I am expressing my feeling. Logos 5 brought much more parity to the Mac with the Win version. I have been a Logos user since the beginning (LLS 1.1 in 1995) and have over $16,000 invested since L4. When I see questions like, "Are you on a Mac?' asked in the forums, I get really nervous about becoming a second class user again. L6 seems to be causing more problems for Mac users. Parity for the Mac side has been promised for over a decade. My investment shows that I have believed that promise. But I am concerned again...


I am a pastor and use this software everyday. This last week of broken features and crashes brought back too many memories of past use. I am gracious and forgiving. I do not mind paying for what I use. And I have paid. I expect/demand the fulfillment of the parity promise. I will not return to running this program in a virtual machine again.


Feel free to forward or send this post to every Logos/Faithlife employee.

Posts 2829
Don Awalt | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 28 2014 7:40 AM

I am running Mac and Windows Logos 6, and in general they have made very nice progress on the Mac version. Even some long standing little annoyances have been fixed, like sometimes after adding resources you click "Click to Restart" and it doesn't restart.

That said, recently with Logos 6/Mac it freezes A LOT with the spinning pie. I have seen it when checking for resources, just bringing up the Library pane, simple stuff. Not a day goes by that it doesn't happen, and there is no rhyme or reason to what I am working on - I think it must be something fundamental that's broken.  I suspect it may be the new Chromium update for enhanced fonts, that is just my guess but something recently introduced has made the Mac version far less stable than the Windows version.

Hopefully this will be identified and fixed in an upcoming srvice release.

Posts 203
Jeffrey S. Robison | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 28 2014 7:43 AM

My hopes are the same as yours. I need my software to work... I had to resort to "dead tree" editions this past week.

Posts 5247
Dan Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 28 2014 7:55 AM

Don Awalt:
That said, recently with Logos 6/Mac it freezes A LOT with the spinning pie. I have seen it when checking for resources, just bringing up the Library pane, simple stuff. Not a day goes by that it doesn't happen, and there is no rhyme or reason to what I am working on - I think it must be something fundamental that's broken.  I suspect it may be the new Chromium update for enhanced fonts, that is just my guess but something recently introduced has made the Mac version far less stable than the Windows version.

Hmm... this is not something I am experiencing and I had fairly regular crashes with Logos 5. I hope you problems get corrected soon.

-Dan

Posts 702
JH | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 28 2014 8:38 AM

Logos works great on my iMac. Not sure what specific issues or parity features you are referring to.  Can you be more specific?

Posts 2219
mab | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 28 2014 10:08 AM

Complete parity is mythical. I'm such a diehard Machead, but if I were at zero, I'd by a Win box first. (More money for Logos.) Logos on Mac works fine. The big download issue seems to be resolved and other than indexing, which appears to be faster on PC, no problems I've seen.

I've been using computers since the 1980's. Whatever problem you have will be soon forgotten. 

The mind of man is the mill of God, not to grind chaff, but wheat. Thomas Manton | Study hard, for the well is deep, and our brains are shallow. Richard Baxter

Posts 757
Fr. Charles R. Matheny | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 28 2014 11:12 AM

Dear Bradley: Its not machine specific, its systemic . Every other mainstream program written for OS X ,used on macs runs great- people have been over this with Logos, literally hundreds of times.
Of course, there are going to be specific issues that come up on certain machines/installs- software does that- it happens.
Logos isn't written for OS X and every single Logos employee knows this- its just never going to run as well on a mac as programs written for OS X .

To all of us Mac users: Logos is never, ever going to run like a native OS X program- its never, ever going to happen. The owner of Logos has made this plain, again- over and over. Logos is written for Windows, they use an interface to make it work on a mac, it has never been written for OS X and it not ever going to be, that would be an expensive undertaking. My understanding is: They try to write once and then distribute.
Financially- this makes sense.

O think we just have to understand its not going to run on Macs as if written for Macs and, be glad for what we have.

We get what we get. 
We are the second hand citizens of Logos.
We matter, financially,  but not as much as the windows folk and certainly not enough for Logos to write code for our machines.

Personally just use Logos as a library and do my actual work on software written for OS X, software that flies on speed and acts like OS X softeware.

Its the only solution I could find in order to have the resources i need and, the speed to do the heavy lifting i need.

Logos is Logos, Accordance is Accordance.

Logos made a programming/code decision to support OS X , but not write code for it.

Its going to be slow ( comparatively ), its going to be clunky- we all know this and Bradley cannot fix this for us.

It is, what it is.

Im grateful for 64 bit, the progress that has been made, some of the features/tools and the incredible resources ( cannot get those anywhere else).

Grace and Peace. 

Posts 372
Clint Cozier | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 28 2014 12:47 PM

I'm running L6 on a two year old MBP, i7 processor, 8 GB RAM and a 500 GB SSD. Logos 6 is about on par for me with L5, I would call it "laggy." The first time I select a menu item, or try to go to the Command Box, or select a layout, it lags; I get the spinning beach ball for a couple of seconds. It's not an eternity, but it's enough to break my workflow. Once selected,  things speed up for me. The first time I change layouts takes a couple of seconds just to get the menu to appear, after that it's fine, no noticeable lag. Last year I had a PC for a while and realized just how different the experience was on the two platforms. Once it loaded on the PC, there was no discernable lag that I experienced. If I were buying a machine just to work with Logos, it would be a PC slam dunk for me....and I'm a twenty year mac person.

I'm OK with the tradeoff, L6 has some great new stuff so the fact that things are about the same as L5 with the new features was a move I was willing to make. That said, if I'm doing exegesis or need to look up a definition quickly, I turn to other tools. Quick is just not in the Logos Mac vocabulary I'm afraid.

Posts 203
Jeffrey S. Robison | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 28 2014 3:37 PM

Bradley Grainger (Faithlife):
Jeffrey, I'm trying to understand your concern. Are you experiencing any performance problems on your Mac, or are you just concerned that other forum users are reporting them?

Bradley,

I posted three places because I wanted it seen.

I have had issues since before the server debacle. It is beach balling. Apparently it writes wrong folder permissions on the Logos4 library folder which apparently causes crashes with personal books. When you ask about your crash issue, you are told to post your log files. When you turn on logging L6 crashes on startup so it only produces a console log file which points to the wrong folder permissions. I have done a complete removal of L6 and the clean install twice which is a 26.8 GIGABYTE download for me.

The parity promise has been made... and made... and made... $16000+ in resources and three paid upgrades later, as a Mac user I am told in the forums to get over it, it is not going to happen. I cannot even report on my crashes because it won't start if you want a log. I am supposedly using a stable release, Logos Bible Software 6.0a (6.0.1.0032). Faithlife broke something in L6 on this last update.

I have reported my issues in the forums and you are the first Faithlifer to respond. If you check my posts you will see that I have asked for help... in the forums... where I am told to go for support. And there has been none. I abandoned my large Accordance library for Logos years ago. I do not want to go back. I was pleased with L5 but excited about the new features of L6. I simply want the promise fulfilled. I want a stable product where the features I have paid for work as promised and advertised.

I have used Beta Logos releases on Developer releases of OS X and have never complained about crashes on that machine. I expect those. But when it does not function on my main machine... I have issues. I have never said, "Logos is slow," or "Logos is sluggish." I have a huge library and it takes a few seconds to search, no big deal. When an advertised feature crashes only on Mac. I start remembering the unkept promises after the initial announcement (a couple of years worth) and Logos' first foray into OS X (disaster) and I am worried that L6 is going that way. What can you say that will ease that concern?

I would be glad to provide logs for my crashes if you can tell me how to get them... see my previous posts with logs that I am able to generate within the last week. I use Logos EVERYDAY and I just want it to work (all of the features). I do not want to be hindered by crashing software. I want to follow my Bible study wherever it leads in the software. I am willing to do another clean install... if you can promise it will run. I am easy to get along with.

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 28 2014 3:54 PM

Jeffery, please for those of us who are trying to insure that every question receives an answer, multiple postings waste time. They don't increase visibility. If your post is not responded to after a few hours, bump it by responding to yourself - people often simply say "bump" to bring it back up to the top of the threads forums regulars are reviewing.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 203
Jeffrey S. Robison | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 28 2014 4:01 PM

MJ. Smith:

Jeffery, please for those of us who are trying to insure that every question receives an answer, multiple postings waste time. They don't increase visibility. If your post is not responded to after a few hours, bump it by responding to yourself - people often simply say "bump" to bring it back up to the top of the threads forums regulars are reviewing.

I apologize. I will refrain from doing so in the future. I suppose I was frustrated.

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 28 2014 4:06 PM

I suspect the combination of a new product, a severe server outage, and a long holiday weekend have left many of us frustrated.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 203
Jeffrey S. Robison | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 28 2014 4:19 PM

MJ. Smith:

I suspect the combination of a new product, a severe server outage, and a long holiday weekend have left many of us frustrated.

Thank you for your calmness and responses to all. I do not start a thread or make a post to start a Logos bashing thread. I just wanted a answer for greyed out personal books and crashes on builds or rebuilds of personal books. By the way, do you know anything about permissions on the Logos4 user library folder and subfolders on a Mac for L6? Apparently that is one of my issues. 

Posts 26117
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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 28 2014 5:07 PM

No, unfortunately I'm PC ... but I'll keep my eyes open for recent posting by Mac people to see if I can direct them this direction.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 203
Jeffrey S. Robison | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 28 2014 5:10 PM

Thanks.

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Jack Caviness | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 28 2014 7:13 PM

Jeffrey S. Robison:
By the way, do you know anything about permissions on the Logos4 user library folder and subfolders on a Mac for L6?

Saw in another thread that you had set permissions via Terminal. Did that fix your problem(s)?

Posts 203
Jeffrey S. Robison | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 28 2014 7:18 PM

Jack Caviness:
Saw in another thread that you had set permissions via Terminal. Did that fix your problem(s)?

Thanks for asking.

The problem seemed to be that my user id was not added in the permissions of the Logging folder. When I added my id and set permissions to 755, it seemed to fix the logging crash and the PB build problem. It seems that PB build needed access to the Logging folder and system as owner and no user id caused the crash. Built my PB and no crash... happy day. I can now read my favorite devotional book again in L6.

Posts 10
Steve Walter | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 28 2014 7:24 PM

Still love Logos and what it means for me as a pastor, for what it's worth. :)

Posts 203
Jeffrey S. Robison | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 28 2014 7:28 PM

Steve Walter:

Still love Logos and what it means for me as a pastor, for what it's worth. :)

I am with you. I preach at least 4 times a week... I love Logos and I love my Mac. 

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