Logos 4 should still be in Beta

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This post has 76 Replies | 2 Followers

Posts 2694
DominicM | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 18 2010 3:21 AM

Robert Pavich:
You've never heard someone on these forums say: "Wow! V4 is BETA! It has everything I want!"

WIth Exception of Sentence Digramming I can say it has everything I need, and also that  L4 has enhaced my studies.

now being a flawed human, I  want some enhancements, and (hopefully) they will come with time.

Never Deprive Anyone of Hope.. It Might Be ALL They Have

Posts 4508
Robert Pavich | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 18 2010 3:26 AM

DominicM:
WIth Exception of Sentence Digramming I can say it has everything I need

 

Dom,

you're easier to please than me :)

I want:

Sentence Diagramming

Exporting and printing of every type of search results with all of the sorting options

Better notes and clippings support...specifically, printing and formatting, and exporting....

But...those things are coming...I'm content to wait... Big Smile

Robert Pavich

For help go to the Wiki: http://wiki.logos.com/Table_of_Contents__

Posts 198
Bryan Brodess | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 18 2010 3:46 AM

DominicM:

Robert Pavich:
You've never heard someone on these forums say: "Wow! V4 is BETA! It has everything I want!"

WIth Exception of Sentence Digramming I can say it has everything I need, and also that  L4 has enhaced my studies.

now being a flawed human, I  want some enhancements, and (hopefully) they will come with time.

Aww but those enhancements might make it so logos 4 will run slower on older computers,, you sure you want that??Stick out tongue

 

Posts 2694
DominicM | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 18 2010 4:28 AM

Robert Pavich:

you're easier to please than me :)

LOL we live in a Instant society (I want it NOW, and I want it MY WAY) which is sadly reflected in todays Church, and me included.

Some battles are worth fighting, others are not, and when I think of the hours of poinless debate on certain issues, where Bob has stated his postion clearly (thinking notes)..  We can disagree, but God put Bob in that position, and if we think he might be wrong yelling wont change things, only prayer will.. 

Never Deprive Anyone of Hope.. It Might Be ALL They Have

Posts 232
AndyTheGreek | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 18 2010 6:02 AM

DominicM:

Some battles are worth fighting, others are not, and when I think of the hours of poinless debate on certain issues, where Bob has stated his postion clearly (thinking notes)..  We can disagree, but God put Bob in that position, and if we think he might be wrong yelling wont change things, only prayer will.. 

I don't really think that God is making the decisions for the Logos team. Otherwise the software would really be perfect. Smile

I was thinking as I wrote my first post this morning that it's so easy for us to develop an almost 'faith-like' view of this product. When someone raises a criticism of it, a number of others leap to its 'defence', which is a shame in a way, as we are talking about software and not divine truth.

Some have fallen in love with Logos4 and that's fine - I'm happy for them. Others, myself included, have had a rougher ride with it. If you have the kit to run it on and unlimited bandwidth then your experience is going to be different from someone whose systems are less powerful and whose bandwidth is limited and 'overuse' is charged. I actually paid more in bandwidth charges to get Logos4 than I paid for the minimal crossgrade! So, every new 1 gig download is met with resistance on my part - hence my reason to not upgrade Logos4 anymore - certainly not until it stabilises more.

If I could appeal to Bob one thing, it would be to stop changing the data structures! It's their instability that makes me view the software as beta (or even pre-beta) because changing them leads to all the dependant data needing to be restructured (or, in this case, redownloaded). If they cannot stop changing them then they must find a way to minimise the impact - and that means building a layer of indirection between the structures and the code or giving us configurable downloads.

I think it's worth remembering that Logos is commercial software. The Logos team are not providing the software to us out of just the goodness of their hearts. It's a business and some of your customers are hurting...

Posts 1977
Mark | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 18 2010 2:46 PM

Bryan Brodess:
I can probably say with very little doubt that logos 6 probably will not work very well on the computer i have today

Bryan

I agree with your post.  There is just one problem...when L4 was first advertised (and I think it is the same today), we are not told that it will work with Windows 7 but not with older versions of Windows.  If I had that information at the very beginning, then I would have absolutely no problem. 

Well, we have really worked this one to death.  And I am very very confident that Logos has learned many lessons from the release of L4.

Posts 4
David Bailey | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 18 2010 3:25 PM

I am one of those who has had a flawless experience, from download, through indexing, to daily use. I LOVE 4!

Posts 2964
tom | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jan 19 2010 10:27 AM

MarkSwaim:
I am very very confident that Logos has learned many lessons from the release of L4.

I sure do hope so

Posts 2964
tom | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jan 19 2010 10:37 AM

Robert Pavich:
You COULD buy now...and NOT INSTALL...pretending like it doesn't exist...and wait until you think it's ready....then install and THEN it's a win-win for you....right?

I can do this, but I have a hard time spending money now on something that I might use in the future.

For me, it is v3 until Logos produces a v4 that I can use.

Posts 5615
Todd Phillips | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jan 19 2010 10:41 AM

MarkSwaim:
I agree with your post.  There is just one problem...when L4 was first advertised (and I think it is the same today), we are not told that it will work with Windows 7 but not with older versions of Windows.  If I had that information at the very beginning, then I would have absolutely no problem. 

Perhaps it's not clear enough or maybe it wasn't there when you looked, but there is system requirements link on the right side of product page (e.g. http://www.logos.com/platinum ), for those who are interested.

PC

  • Pentium 4
  • 1 GB RAM
  • Windows XP SP3
  • DVD drive
  • 12 GB hard drive space
  • 1024X600 Display
  • 128 MB DirectX 9 graphics device
  • Internet connection required for activation
Has it always been there? I don't know, but we were told as beta testers that the minumum OS was Windows XP SP3. (And FWIW, it does work fine with XP on my system).

Wiki Links: Enabling Logging / Detailed Search Help - MacBook Pro (2014), ThinkPad E570

Posts 2778
J.R. Miller | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jan 19 2010 11:38 AM

Todd Phillips:
Has it always been there? I don't know, but we were told as beta testers that the minumum OS was Windows XP SP3. (And FWIW, it does work fine with XP on my system).
The SP3 requisite has been there from the beginning.

My Books in Logos & FREE Training

Posts 8112
LogosEmployee
Bradley Grainger (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jan 19 2010 12:53 PM

MarkSwaim:

There is just one problem...when L4 was first advertised (and I think it is the same today), we are not told that it will work with Windows 7 but not with older versions of Windows.  If I had that information at the very beginning, then I would have absolutely no problem. 

Logos 4 runs great (and is regularly tested) on Windows XP, Vista, and 7. It does not work on any of the much older versions: 95, 98, Me, NT, 2000.

Posts 198
Bryan Brodess | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jan 19 2010 1:33 PM

MarkSwaim:

Bryan Brodess:
I can probably say with very little doubt that logos 6 probably will not work very well on the computer i have today

Bryan

I agree with your post.  There is just one problem...when L4 was first advertised (and I think it is the same today), we are not told that it will work with Windows 7 but not with older versions of Windows.  If I had that information at the very beginning, then I would have absolutely no problem. 

All I can say is this. I have games that will not run on windows 7 64 bit. I am sure there are games today that will not run on my old XP computer.. or at least not very well.

 

Technology has increased exponentially and keeps on doing so. I am personally glad logos put out a product that takes advantage of todays hardware. and did not hold back.

 

They could have made logos 4 so powerful that only extreme gamer computers could run it. They did not. But they also did not make it so week that we who have spent money to get up to date computers would not be able to take advantage. they took the middle ground.

For some of you that do not know software. Logos 4 is asked to do ALOT! the things it is doing was not possible 10 - 15 years ago. no computor would handle it.

 

I started working on computers in 1985. The first cd rom we got it to look up parts was so slow  took about 20 minutes to look up one part. You would type in a part number, then go smoke a cigarette and come back and it was still searching..

I don't know maybe some of you young people are spoiled. Technology is increasing so fast your not used to the slow upgrades. Back then your computer could last years. Today if you want to keep up you might need a new one ever 3 - 5 years for the latest software..

 

Thank you Logos for not holding back..

 

 

 

 

Posts 1977
Mark | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jan 19 2010 5:34 PM

Todd Phillips:
the minumum OS was Windows XP SP3.

Yes this has been there from the beginning.  So therefore, L4 should function using XP SP3, Vista, and Windows 7.  The problem is that many have had problems with it and that has caused frustration and has caused people to liken L4 to being only beta today.

By the way, I opened up my laptop and cleaned the dust out of it.  The result?  L4 has so far, not crashed on me!  That was a very pleasant surprise, bringing me much joy.

Posts 5615
Todd Phillips | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jan 19 2010 5:48 PM

MarkSwaim:

we are not told that it will work with Windows 7 but not with older versions of Windows.  If I had that information at the very beginning, then I would have absolutely no problem.

MarkSwaim:

Todd Phillips:
the minumum OS was Windows XP SP3.

Yes this has been there from the beginning. 

Then we have no problem. Smile

Wiki Links: Enabling Logging / Detailed Search Help - MacBook Pro (2014), ThinkPad E570

Posts 168
Bill Gordon | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jan 19 2010 6:40 PM

Bryan Brodess:

Aww but those enhancements might make it so logos 4 will run slower on older computers,, you sure you want that??Stick out tongue

 

I recently calculated that I've spent enough on Logos and additional books to buy more than eight brand new laptops (Windows not Macs). The cost of the equipment is becoming insignificant compared to what I've spent on Logos.

This is not a complaint. I use the program everyday for both my work and personal study. I am pointing out that buying the software with additional books can easily become a larger investment than buying new equipment to run it on.

Posts 1977
Mark | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jan 20 2010 5:21 AM

Todd Phillips:
Then we have no problem

Not sure what the problem is:

Windows 7 is the current and new version of Windows

Windows Vista is an older version of windows

Windows XP SP3 is an older version of windows.

We are not told that L4 will work with Windows 7 only.  We assume it will work on older versions (described above).  If L4 does not work on these older versions, then I agree with you, we have a problem.  But Logos says it does and we all verify that it does.  But the point of this whole thread is that it does not always function properly on various computers running these OS at the specs that we are told would be the minimal to run the program.  That would be why many seem to consider L4 to still be a beta program. I think that the thread needs to be followed to not miss the points being made.  I have recently written in another post that L4 is running much much better now (I actually can use it without the computer crashing on me) since I had someone open the back of the notebook and blow away the dust that has accumulated over two years.

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