Why are not User Manuals Free?

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This post has 228 Replies | 8 Followers

Posts 183
Bryan S. | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 23 2014 9:37 AM

Ed Foster:

What a whiner, you sound like one of the I'm entitled to this generation. Grow up! You aren't entitled to anything. If this rubs you raw then get rid of Logos and switch to another software. Logos supplied the software and Morris does alot of work preparing the manuals and it costs money. STOP COMPLAINING!

From the looks of your post you have done much more whining than I have, You  must be a Logos cool-aid drinker and further more I wish I had done my due diligence homework, but I've poured too much money into this program or I I would switch to accordance...

Go take a blood pressure pill a chill out

Christianity has not been tried and found wanting; it's been found difficult and not tried.

Posts 183
Bryan S. | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 23 2014 9:43 AM

Paul Strickert:

This is my opinion about manuals:  I think they're overrated.  The L6 videos provide more than enough help (I would think) for most users.  Power users may want something more.  From the videos I've watched, however, I think Logos has met the needs of the vast majority of users.  Just my opinion.  Smile

Those Videos only scratch the surface of what this program is capable of and without an in-depth manual to some of us this program is useless, I can usually get more done with google because the search features are so cumbersome... add a { here or a > there and a AND and ANDNOT over there, just google it... 

Christianity has not been tried and found wanting; it's been found difficult and not tried.

Posts 8967
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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 23 2014 10:07 AM

Ed Foster:
What a whiner,

Jesse Blevins:
Ed Foster, you are out of line calling someone a whiner.

Bryan S.:
You  must be a Logos cool-aid drinker

Bryan S., you are out of line with the Kool-Aid reference.

Some of us invested so much in Logos we can't turn back.  I only have the best wishes for the success of Faithlife.

Have some Kool-Aid.    Its yummmy yummy

Logos 7 Collectors Edition

Posts 183
Bryan S. | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 23 2014 10:19 AM

Super.Tramp:
Bryan S., you are out of line with the Kool-Aid reference.

I don't think so, this forum is for helping others and letting others know how we feel...If know one spoke up nothing would change! and ED would be happy drinking the kool-aid pretending everything is fine when in fact it is not...And by the way I like Kool-aid...

Super.Tramp:
Some of us invested so much in Logos we can't turn back.

If you had read my previous post I said That, I'm invested too deep in to turn back as well, THAT'S WHY WE NEED A MANUAL, but just thinking about it maybe that's how faith-life wants it give you just enough training to get you going and when you finally realize months later you need more than the 2 min help videos it's too late your too deep and trapped in a software program that is so in-depth they themselves have to outsource it...

Christianity has not been tried and found wanting; it's been found difficult and not tried.

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Jack Caviness | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 23 2014 10:20 AM

Doc B:

Jack Caviness:
Guess you have never purchased a Microsoft product then

I call BS, Jack.

I've thrown away thousands of pages of Microsoft manuals. Paper ones.

Good for you. I have owned MS Word/Office for both Mac and Windows since 1985, including every Mac version since 1.4, and I have not received a free manual—paper or electronic—in at least 20 years.

Posts 183
Bryan S. | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 23 2014 10:31 AM

Jack Caviness:

Doc B:

Jack Caviness:
Guess you have never purchased a Microsoft product then

I call BS, Jack.

I've thrown away thousands of pages of Microsoft manuals. Paper ones.

Good for you. I have owned MS Word/Office for both Mac and Windows since 1985, including every Mac version since 1.4, and I have not received a free manual—paper or electronic—in at least 20 years.

I provided you the link in a previous post on this thread to the FREE MS user manuals in PDF... Microsoft has always provided manuals for every product they sell for FREE sorry if you cant find them Jack, but if you need one for a program from Microsoft and you don't have and need it I will email you the link.

Here is the link again http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/details.aspx?id=17410

Christianity has not been tried and found wanting; it's been found difficult and not tried.

Posts 5318
Dan Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 23 2014 12:53 PM

I believe Bryan S. has a valid complaint. Different people take things in differently. And the videos while very good do not give the depth one would find in a good manual. I do not think Faithlife should provide a free printed manual, but expanding the help files might be a good idea (NOTE:For me the Verbum Help provides more than enough information for me, but that said I can understand how expansion of this might be good for some people). To purchase a third party manual is not that unusual. There are all sorts of manuals on getting the best out of numerous programs and operating systems. I have not purchased a Morris Proctor product and historically I have found them overly high priced by what I have always believed should typically be included for free (so I fully understand Bryan's frustration). I hope Faithlife can take the already present Help system and make them a little more robust for the users needing a bit more in-depth coverage (as noted above this is not me).

God Bless you Bryan and may all of you reading this have a most Blessed Christmas Season and wonderful New Year.

-Dan

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John Fidel | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 23 2014 12:54 PM

Why don't you use your $20 Christmas Gift from Logos, see logos.com for details and buy the manual from Morris P. Then it is technically free...

Posts 183
Bryan S. | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 23 2014 1:20 PM

John Fidel:

Why don't you use your $20 Christmas Gift from Logos, see logos.com for details and buy the manual from Morris P. Then it is technically free...

I tried to, but it wouldn't let me, possibly because of pre-pub there's know where to put the code and it is only billed after its ready... and and that point the coupon will have expired.

Good suggestion thoughYes

Christianity has not been tried and found wanting; it's been found difficult and not tried.

Posts 11433
DMB | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 23 2014 2:01 PM

Yes, I just got back from the Logos6 What's New Manual for $15 page .... and the Logos6 What's New for .... I forget, but it's a prepub.  I can't tell what's in either one, but it looks like L6 new features only.  I'm still trying to determine why I'd want the new features.

I searched around for another manual for my $20.  Zippo.  There's the $200+ series for Logos5.  But I haven't mastered Logos4 yet (ha).    Then the Judaica collection caught my eye ... only $450 or so.  Hmmm.

Maybe trying to find a manual for Logos is somewhat of a waste of time.  Maybe learning Logos is somewhat of a waste of time too.

"God will save his fallen angels and their broken wings He'll mend."

Posts 183
Bryan S. | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 23 2014 2:11 PM

Denise:
Maybe trying to find a manual for Logos is somewhat of a waste of time.  Maybe learning Logos is somewhat of a waste of time too

Yea I kinda feel the same way, but I know after spending this much money I'll keep at it until I get the hang of it, or who knows perhaps Bob, or Faithlife will will actually hire someone in house who actually knows the program and get us the manual we need... (holding my breath now) Ick!

Christianity has not been tried and found wanting; it's been found difficult and not tried.

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Bruce Dunning | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 23 2014 4:00 PM

Bryan S.:
this forum is for helping others and letting others know how we feel.

Yes, this is true and doing this in a gracious way is much preferred. Thank you for changing the original title of your thread.

Using adventure and community to challenge young people to continually say "yes" to God

Posts 959
Yasmin Stephen | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 23 2014 4:14 PM

Bruce Dunning:

Bryan S.:
this forum is for helping others and letting others know how we feel.

Yes, this is true and doing this in a gracious way is much preferred. Thank you for changing the original title of your thread.

Yes, this. And thank you.

Posts 183
Bryan S. | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 23 2014 4:33 PM

Yasmin Stephen:
doing this in a gracious way is much preferred

Most of the time, but then there are times when gracefully saying something does't work and you need to get straight to the heart of the matter.

Christianity has not been tried and found wanting; it's been found difficult and not tried.

Posts 9627
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Bruce Dunning | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 23 2014 4:36 PM

Bryan S.:

Yasmin Stephen:
doing this in a gracious way is much preferred

Most of the time, but then there are times when gracefully saying something does't work and you need to get straight to the heart of the matter.

I think that it is possible to speak one's mind and be gracious at the same time.

Using adventure and community to challenge young people to continually say "yes" to God

Posts 8967
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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 23 2014 5:16 PM

Bruce Dunning:
I think that it is possible to speak one's mind and be gracious at the same time.

I think that it is possible to take an issue far beyond useful purposes. This thread has been beating a dead horse for much too long now.

Logos 7 Collectors Edition

Posts 11433
DMB | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 23 2014 5:32 PM

Now, Super.  The pony's only had a light tap on the head (plus Doc trying to climb on).

Most of the dead-horse beating is Logosians angered by the OP not being properly nice.  Sort of Elizabethan England.  Maybe Victorian.  The OP did not demonstrate proper manners on the Logosian dance floor.

Frankly it's hard for me to imagine a forum where the forumites brow-beat  someone (maybe thinking he's a pony) who wants a manual.  Personally I'd be happy to pay the $20 credit (about 2 hours ago anyway). But there's just no pony to climb on.

Yes, the pony's been pointed to, many times, going all the way back to Dan's usual.

From my years in corporate land (which is not unique on this forum), I think they're unintelligent.  If you look at many apps these days, they're half advertisement and half manual.  What happened to Logos marketing?

"God will save his fallen angels and their broken wings He'll mend."

Posts 183
Bryan S. | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 23 2014 5:32 PM

Super.Tramp:
I think that it is possible to take an issue far beyond useful purposes. This thread has been beating a dead horse for much too long now.

Once again Super Tramp thinks His/Hers is the only opinion that really matters.

I wonder how graceful it is to have a name like Super Tramp... That offends me.

Christianity has not been tried and found wanting; it's been found difficult and not tried.

Posts 180
Paul C | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 23 2014 5:33 PM

John Fidel:

Why don't you use your $20 Christmas Gift from Logos, see logos.com for details and buy the manual from Morris P. Then it is technically free...

Research a little more. With shipping, it is $28. Sad

Posts 10836
Forum MVP
Jack Caviness | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 23 2014 5:36 PM

Bryan S.:

Thank you for the link. It is for Office 2010, and I have 2011—which is the Mac version of 2010. So I went to the Mactopia download page http://www.microsoft.com/mac/downloads. There is no manual there, nor is there a link back to the 2010 downloads page. It appears that we were each partially correct. While the manual for Office 2010 will probably work for 2011, MS did not provide a link for Mac users to download that document. 

 I do appreciate the link—and the correction.

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