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This post has 46 Replies | 6 Followers

Posts 1281
toughski | Forum Activity | Posted: Fri, Jan 2 2015 7:59 AM

Not only there are more advertisements on the Home page, but Faithlife is ignoring multi-year-long requests for improvements in Library view!

When I open Library tab, I am greeted with a list of 6436 resources. Sorting them by Title, Author, Rating and Recent is useful, but just shuffles them around. it is still a 6436 resources list (for me).

  • Is there a "downloaded to device" view (an industry standard for pretty much everything)
  • is there a "recently read on desktop" view?
  • is there a way to create a subset of books I can have streamlined access?
  • is there way to display books by book covers only, or by text only?
  • is there a way to have collection/mytag subfolders or views: Bibles, Devotional, Leadership books, etc.

All of these are pretty much standard on Kindle. As far as dealing with Library management, Bible! is worse than competition in pretty much everything. I wish they copied Kindle in library management 100%.

I mean, who thought these things through?

  • "Download all" on the entire library listing is pretty dumb for a mobile device with limited storage and software (Bible!) with no filtering capabilities (I take it back - you can filter by search Roll Eyes)
  • Sorting by Recent gives me NOT a "recently downloaded to THIS device" list, but a list of books with no rhyme or reason. I even did a test - closed all tabs in Logos, opened a random resource in L6, then closed L6. opened Bible! Sort by recent list did not display what I read recently. So I finally figured out that it means "Recently purchased." I believe it needs to be communicated more clearly.

FAITHLIFE, please spend considerable time redesigning user interface for viewing/accessing/managing books in your mobile applications, otherwise it is not a Bible! -  it is bibleNo

Posts 22087
Forum MVP
Graham Criddle | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 2 2015 8:25 AM

toughski:
Is there a "downloaded to device" view (an industry standard for pretty much everything)

Typing "local:" into the library filter will give you this

toughski:
is there a "recently read on desktop" view?

not to the best of my knowledge

toughski:
is there a way to create a subset of books I can have streamlined access?

you could tag the books on the desktop and then filter on that tag

toughski:
is there way to display books by book covers only, or by text only?

not completely but toggling the icon at the top-right of the library comes close

toughski:
is there a way to have collection/mytag subfolders or views: Bibles, Devotional, Leadership books, etc.

if you tag them on the desktop you can filter them by those tags - e.g. "mytag:paul-life" gives me just the books I have tagged with that tag

toughski:
"Download all" on the entire library listing is pretty dumb for a mobile device with limited storage and software (Bible!) with no filtering capabilities (I take it back - you can filter by search Roll Eyes)

I seem to remember a lot of people asking for the ability to download all - and people on the Android forums complaining that this was limited to 100 resources at a timeSmile

toughski:
Sorting by Recent gives me NOT a "recently downloaded to THIS device" list, but a list of books with no rhyme or reason. I even did a test - closed all tabs in Logos, opened a random resource in L6, then closed L6. opened Bible! Sort by recent list did not display what I read recently. So I finally figured out that it means "Recently purchased." I believe it needs to be communicated more clearly.

I agree this could be better.

Posts 1281
toughski | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 2 2015 9:00 AM

Graham Criddle:

toughski:
Is there a "downloaded to device" view (an industry standard for pretty much everything)

Typing "local:" into the library filter will give you this

this is neither intuitive, fast or standard. Is FAITHLIFE going for "software hardest to use award?" Compare to "Device/Cloud" 1 button toggle on better designed apps

Graham Criddle:

toughski:
is there a way to create a subset of books I can have streamlined access?

you could tag the books on the desktop and then filter on that tag

With this "solution" I would have to 1) remember my tag, 2) filter by this tag over and over. we need a persistent view. 1 touch access would be ideal.

Graham Criddle:

toughski:
is there a way to have collection/mytag subfolders or views: Bibles, Devotional, Leadership books, etc.

if you tag them on the desktop you can filter them by those tags - e.g. "mytag:paul-life" gives me just the books I have tagged with that tag

as I noted above, the searching has to be repeated over and over. This is bad UI design! I believe it stems from Faithlife not actually using their apps every day.

Posts 10312
Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 2 2015 9:59 AM

My impression is the team is either doing a major re-write (not likely), or is off on new projects.  

I agree with Toughski ... a large library and (in my case) iOS Logos apps are not easy to handle.  Typing in 'local:' is nutty.  Everyone else has a button.  Plus 'everyone else' also supports grouping the resources.  The sorts are kind of odd.  Since I use multiple apps from Logos, it's never clear where they're getting the sort from ('recently').  

But to give them a kudos, when I buy a book, it's at the top.  After I type in title:xyz that is.  Absent that, it doesn't show even on recent.  But not a few weeks ago, even title: couldn't pull it.  So there's pretty major progress here.

And I'll admit, the unreliable black-stripe-of-death is getting more unreliable, so that's good.  It shows up nuttily on my Noet, but the black death-strip doesn't show on my Bible! (I call him 'Mut' from the valley of Hinnom).  Noet's pretty buggy (recognizing we're talking the same code).


Posts 1896
Donnie Hale | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 5 2015 7:56 AM

Denise:
And I'll admit, the unreliable black-stripe-of-death is getting more unreliable, so that's good.

That "feature" is completely useless. The premise that I want Bible to take me to the same location in a resource as I was at in desktop Logos not just flawed, it's outright wrong. Many resources are open in desktop for study (e.g. a systematic theology). They're open in Bible for reading. No relationship between locations. Just open the resource where I last was on that device.

Donnie

Posts 13369
Forum MVP
Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 5 2015 8:00 AM

Donnie Hale:
No relationship between locations. Just open the resource where I last was on that device.

Not for me. I frequently pick up reading from my PC and continue on my iPhone.

But I agree with toughski that a Cloud/Device toggle is pretty much essential.

Posts 251
Rod | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 9 2015 1:51 PM

I try to avoid going to Home page or Library view if at all possible.  I agree that the app is painful to use in its present state.

Watching the ipad or iphone reload the list of resources is just way too slow.  One should have the option of not reloading the list unless you want it updated.

Posts 22087
Forum MVP
Graham Criddle | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 9 2015 2:25 PM

What iOS devices do you have?

I don't see performance issues so wondering about hardware etc

Posts 1281
toughski | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 9 2015 4:00 PM

to bring this post back on track, I am not so worried about performance, as much as usability. Bible! is simply not user-friendly for people with large libraries. If Faithlife wants us to continue to purchase resources, it needs to spend time designing a better user experience.

I dare Faithlife to create a simple survey comparing top 10 Bible and Reader mobile software in usability, speed of accessing a Biblical passage, managing one's library, annotating, etc.

Posts 5156
DIsciple II | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 9 2015 4:10 PM

Totally agree with you Logos is dropping the ball on mobile apps.  Bible! needs a major overhaul as you have outlined. Flashcards is broken in terms of pronunciation feature which they continue to advertise as a feature of this product and the only comment they have is they are aware of the problem but have no plans for a fixat this point in time.  All they seem to be focused on is sales, sales, and mor sales.

toughski:

Not only there are more advertisements on the Home page, but Faithlife is ignoring multi-year-long requests for improvements in Library view!

When I open Library tab, I am greeted with a list of 6436 resources. Sorting them by Title, Author, Rating and Recent is useful, but just shuffles them around. it is still a 6436 resources list (for me).

  • Is there a "downloaded to device" view (an industry standard for pretty much everything)
  • is there a "recently read on desktop" view?
  • is there a way to create a subset of books I can have streamlined access?
  • is there way to display books by book covers only, or by text only?
  • is there a way to have collection/mytag subfolders or views: Bibles, Devotional, Leadership books, etc.

All of these are pretty much standard on Kindle. As far as dealing with Library management, Bible! is worse than competition in pretty much everything. I wish they copied Kindle in library management 100%.

I mean, who thought these things through?

  • "Download all" on the entire library listing is pretty dumb for a mobile device with limited storage and software (Bible!) with no filtering capabilities (I take it back - you can filter by search Roll Eyes)
  • Sorting by Recent gives me NOT a "recently downloaded to THIS device" list, but a list of books with no rhyme or reason. I even did a test - closed all tabs in Logos, opened a random resource in L6, then closed L6. opened Bible! Sort by recent list did not display what I read recently. So I finally figured out that it means "Recently purchased." I believe it needs to be communicated more clearly.

FAITHLIFE, please spend considerable time redesigning user interface for viewing/accessing/managing books in your mobile applications, otherwise it is not a Bible! -  it is bibleNo

Posts 4264
LogosEmployee
Kevin Byford (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 9 2015 7:37 PM

Disciple of Christ (doc):
Flashcards is broken in terms of pronunciation feature which they continue to advertise as a feature of this product and the only comment they have is they are aware of the problem but have no plans for a fixat this point in time.

I responded on another thread about this issue: "The Flashcards app hasn't been updated in a while but we intend to release a new version with some fixes for both iOS and Android.  Unfortunately I don't have an ETA."

We are aware of the problem and *do* have plans for a fix.  I apologize if I misled you.

Posts 4264
LogosEmployee
Kevin Byford (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 9 2015 7:59 PM

Graham Criddle:
toughski:
"Download all" on the entire library listing is pretty dumb for a mobile device with limited storage and software (Bible!) with no filtering capabilities (I take it back - you can filter by search Roll Eyes)

Before using "Download All" you can first filter the library using the below entries in the Find field (these are documented in Logos Desktop's Help section).  For example, "author:darby" will show the Darby Bible, and in this case "Download All" will only download the filtered results.

author:
abbrev:
epubdate:
lang:
mytag:
pubdate:
publisher:
rating:
subject:
series:
title:
type:

Graham Criddle:
toughski:
Sorting by Recent gives me NOT a "recently downloaded to THIS device" list, but a list of books with no rhyme or reason. I even did a test - closed all tabs in Logos, opened a random resource in L6, then closed L6. opened Bible! Sort by recent list did not display what I read recently. So I finally figured out that it means "Recently purchased." I believe it needs to be communicated more clearly.

"Sort by Recent" shows resources most recently viewed in the mobile app in descending order.

Posts 5156
DIsciple II | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 9 2015 10:24 PM

A quick look shows there are reports of this problem existing since October 2014.  It is now Jan 2015.  Two and one half month plus months is an unacceptable time frame to release a fix.  Intent to fix with an unknown release date is starting to become a tired response we hear far too often from this company. Technically the app is free but indirectly we pay for it through our purchase of base packages and resources. Logos has expanded its footprint too wide and it's failing badly in being able to maintain a large stable of applications across multiple platforms. Instead of getting fixes out for existing mobile apps Logos has pushed out another 'free' app, the "Everyday Bible App" that will primarily be seen as a way to advertise to users products for purchase and it will too at some point become another broken app that it intends to fix but has no ETA on when it will be fixed.  I am sure though if the advertising component of these apps ever broke, or your marketing team had new ways to advertise to us through these apps Logos wouldn't take this long to get an updated app out of the door.

Kevin Byford:

Disciple of Christ (doc):
Flashcards is broken in terms of pronunciation feature which they continue to advertise as a feature of this product and the only comment they have is they are aware of the problem but have no plans for a fixat this point in time.

I responded on another thread about this issue: "The Flashcards app hasn't been updated in a while but we intend to release a new version with some fixes for both iOS and Android.  Unfortunately I don't have an ETA."

We are aware of the problem and *do* have plans for a fix.  I apologize if I misled you.

Posts 4264
LogosEmployee
Kevin Byford (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 10 2015 6:24 AM

Disciple of Christ,

Thank you for your input.  We are aware of the Flashcard app's audio problem and plan to fix it.  We value and appreciate customers that use our free mobile apps and are thankful for any/all bug reports that are sent to us should a problem arise.

Posts 10312
Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 10 2015 7:25 AM

Kevin, exactly in what way do you 'value and appreciate customers that use your free mobile apps', being 'thankful for any/all bug reports that are sent to you should a problem arise'?

I only pose the question, since early in my use of the iOS apps, I indeed was thankful.  The apps were a nice addition.  But given the progressive trainwreck over on the desktop (ok, jar of molassas), the apps are now becoming the primary platform. So, they're no longer a 'nice addition'; they're what's been paid for in order to use the books.  As Logos advertises.

And when the 'free' mobile apps don't work, or are difficult to use (I was amazed at your list of library filters on an iOS app, vs a dropdown, etc), I'm not so sure what it is you exactly value.  Safely, it's not me (that's a complement). But customers?  

Don't you find it curious, some of your major iOS users can't figure out how the library sorts the books?  (Including me.)  I remember Melford pleading for something that explained how the apps worked.  He was the nice guy.


Posts 1281
toughski | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 10 2015 8:55 AM

Denise:
Don't you find it curious, some of your major iOS users can't figure out how the library sorts the books?  (Including me.)

only yesterday, after years of having the app I figured that I can add a book to Favorites, mitigating the lack of On-Device-Collections

Posts 251
Rod | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 10 2015 10:59 AM

toughski:
only yesterday, after years of having the app I figured that I can add a book to Favorites, mitigating the lack of On-Device-Collections

This is one of my consistent complaints with all of the Logos software - no manuals.

Somehow, through the process of osmosis or some other revelatory action, we are supposed to understand how all the apps work.

You can pay for some video courses but I would prefer a manual that was in the app that REALLY tells you all the nuts and bolts of how to use the program.

Posts 557
John Kaess | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 10 2015 12:19 PM

toughski:

Denise:
Don't you find it curious, some of your major iOS users can't figure out how the library sorts the books?  (Including me.)

only yesterday, after years of having the app I figured that I can add a book to Favorites, mitigating the lack of On-Device-Collections

And telling us we can use types for sorting?  The IOS designers have never heard of a drop down box?  It almost seems like they have never used the predominate IOS reading apps like iBooks or Kindle or even Audible.  Look at how the best apps have user friendly UI and compare that to the obtuse Bible! app where the tech support suggestions are that to find resources we have to manually tag thousands of our resources on the desktop and then memorize those tags in order to manually sort on them in the Bible! app.

I want to go on record as fully endorsing both toughski and Denise and strongly suggesting that the app programmers spend some time using other apps and spend a few months making the UI of Bible! friendly and easy to use.  Thousands of resources are only useful if you can access the ones you need.

John

Posts 5156
DIsciple II | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 10 2015 2:43 PM

Kevin you are not getting it.  Its reached a time frame where simply saying you are aware of an issue and you are planning to fix it is a meaningless response.  You should be beyond planning to fix it and actually doing something about fixing it.  The same goes with reading plans not syncing.  This sort of thing should have never been allowed to happen but the leadership of this company decided it was more important to push Logos 6 out the door and take customers money instead of ensuring the new reading plan files synced with the mobile apps.  Logos saying they plan to fix that too is no longer a good enough response. How many months before you move from planning to fix these things to working on fixing these issues.

Kevin Byford:

Disciple of Christ,

Thank you for your input.  We are aware of the Flashcard app's audio problem and plan to fix it.  We value and appreciate customers that use our free mobile apps and are thankful for any/all bug reports that are sent to us should a problem arise.

Posts 81
Doug Hanna | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 10 2015 8:34 PM

Denise:

...the apps are now becoming the primary platform. So, they're no longer a 'nice addition'; they're what's been paid for in order to use the books.  As Logos advertises.

Yes Yes Yes Yes

I use Logos on my Mac more than on my iPad, but I agree. Part of the reason I am willing to buy everything in Logos (and even sometimes pay more than I would for a Kindle book or iBook) is because I know it will be everywhere. And while it's available everywhere, it isn't reliable everywhere.

Does Logos have developers on staff that focus primarily or exclusively on the mobile apps? What is the best way to report bugs/frustrations to them?

We are paying customers, and we're not happy. Sad

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