Holy Spirit - OT vs NT (Logos Search Help NOT debate requested please)

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Posts 1776
JoshInRI | Forum Activity | Posted: Wed, Jan 7 2015 6:54 AM

Last night at Bible study I inadvertently let slip something about Daniel and The Holy Spirit (I preached a text once and prefaced one point I made by stating "....moved by The Holy Spirit - Daniel" and after my sermon ended someone ? whether I had said Daniel was indwelt by The Holy Spirit.)

I do not want us to debate whether Daniel was indwelt (insert any other word here if you like) by The Holy Spirit but instead would like to pursue this question instead:

Which resources or where in Logos 6.0 would you all go to research

How does the Holy Spirit operate or work or exist differently in the OT vs the NT?

Any easy Logos resources you can direct me to or Logos search help please?

Thanks.

Humbled searching Seminarian in RI,

Josh

p.s. Is it oversimplification to say that The Holy Spirit came to or for some but not permanently in the OT?

Posts 468
Charlene | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jan 7 2015 7:05 AM

Hi Josh,

I studied this in the past. Basically what helped me was to just look up every reference to Spirit in the OT. What you discover is that the Spirit came "upon" or "on" or even "in" a person...but as you said, the key was that the Spirit could also leave. That is why David prayed and asked the Lord not to take His Spirit from him after he sinned with Bathsheba. That changed however with the New Covenant as the Spirit comes to dwell within permanently

Charlene

Posts 468
Charlene | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jan 7 2015 7:09 AM

Meant to also say that basically you need to search the NT for all the mentions of Spirit as well. Also keep in mind which covenant is in effect (Old Covenant or New Covenant) as you evaluate the passages.

Charlene

Posts 3771
Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jan 7 2015 7:40 AM

I would recommend any dictionary you may own that has longer, more detailed discussions of topics. For instance, lexical theological dictionaries (NIDOTTE, TDNT) multi-volumes Bible dictionaries (Anchor, NIBD, ISBE) and theology dictionaries/handbooks.. 

Remember you can use the topic guide AND the lookup command (i.e, lookup Holy Spirit) and then use the + tab to see other entries. 

You can also do searches such as "Holy Spirit" AND "Old Testament" in Large Text, Title, Heading, Topic.

Posts 11433
DMB | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jan 7 2015 7:55 AM

Avoiding debates as requested, but the issue one will get into with a general search, is spirit as equivalent to life/death, and spirit relative to messanger.  The other issue is angels as an intermediary (Daniel and even Moses per the NT) vs the shekinah or presence.

"God will save his fallen angels and their broken wings He'll mend."

Posts 1344
Sean | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jan 7 2015 8:06 AM

For this one, I'd go more for a theological than biblical resource.

Vol. 2 of J. Rodman Williams's Renewal Theology covers this quite thoroughly, with lots of biblical references, but unfortunately it is not in Logos. At the moment I'm (dogtired) not able to think of a similar one, but when/if I do, I'll post again.

I would say your P.S. is a pretty accurate assessment.

Posts 13420
Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jan 7 2015 9:01 AM

On this topic, by far the best book (IMO) is this one.

It's in Baptist starter, so it's worth checking your dynamic pricing for that package.

Posts 5632
Todd Phillips | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jan 7 2015 9:48 AM

Mark Barnes:

On this topic, by far the best book (IMO) is this one.

Yes

Hamilton is helpful as he surveys views (across denominational lines) and categorizes them:

He also surveys relevant texts in both the OT and NT. It is helpful even if you don't share his conclusions.

Wiki Links: Enabling Logging / Detailed Search Help - MacBook Pro (2014), ThinkPad E570

Posts 1776
JoshInRI | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jan 7 2015 10:02 AM

I am so blessed by your replies and support...thanks everyone.

I am going to make use of these replies and any others that come too.

Its amazing how little we (or rather I) can know about something so vital to us all - The Holy Spirit.

Blessings and thanks,

Joshua

Posts 465
Dave Moser | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jan 7 2015 10:03 AM

Hamilton's book is the first thing that popped into my mind as well.

Here's the search I'd use to look through my whole library:

You could narrow that down further by restricting your search range to a collection on, say, theology.

Posts 2206
Mark | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jan 7 2015 10:20 AM

Very helpful thread. Thanks for the question and the replies

Posts 959
Hamilton Ramos | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 8 2015 6:48 AM

Hi Josh, God bless you.

I agree with the concept of "The Holy Spirit came to or for some but not permanently in the OT". And I do so based on what I can make out of Bible passages.

David said that he killed bears and lions, and indudibly he could do that because the Holy Spirit gave him the strength and courage to do it (i.e. H.S. was dwelling in him in the fight).

Now, I personally believe that due to the lack of the completed work of the atonement, the Holy Spirit could not be permanently in the people.

I base myself on the passage in John 1:32 - 34. Notice that in verse 33, John said the person on which the Spirit descended and remained, that was the Son of God.

Before then no one (in my opinion) could withstand the presence of the Holy Spirit continuously, as Jesus had not died yet to have people justified before God.

Some theologians have suggested that the fact that the Spirit remained in Jesus, is proof that was indeed a Holy being (Luke 1:35).

Some have even suggested that all this points to the possibility that the whole zygote (Hebrews 9:11) was placed by God in Mary's womb.

If such is the case, all the nonsense of Jesus being married to Mary magdalene is just not true.

Once Jesus died for us (Colossians 2:13-14), we were justified, and pronounced righteous in front of God, and through Christ we could now be considered holy and the possibility to have the Holy Spirit indwell in us was real: 

As we can now have the Holy Spirit dwell permanently (thanks to Jesus sacrifice), Jesus himself said: Matthew 11:11, meaning that now the disciples and believers were going to receive the Holy Spirit permanently (Acts 2:1-4).

Hope this helps.

Kind Regards, God bless.

P.S. I think you touch on a very important topic, needed to be further explored, developed and if needed published. 

 

Posts 905
Brother Mark | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 8 2015 9:46 AM

Josh,

Moody Handbook of Theology (MHT) treats the subject well in a summary form.  I checked Logos.com but don't see the resource listed now, so I probably got it with a base packages before the romance between Logos and Moody crashed on the rocks of (presumably) irreconcilable financial differences.  In any case, the search I used that yielded some germane  results was: <Holy Spirit> NEAR "indwel" NEAR ("old testament","old covenant").... borrowed from a previous posted and adding the search term for all forms of "indwelling"

"I read dead people..."

Posts 1776
JoshInRI | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 8 2015 3:36 PM

Hi

I am again blessed by the respectful replies here.  I asked a friend and he said he was not a fan of the table above (I enjoyed looking at it and promptly bought the Logos book though I have not perused it yet).

I am leaning toward the camp that Daniel had The Holy Spirit in Him (my apology if I should be choosing different words..my neophyte is showing) but I also do not want to inadvertently upset (or gulp - even grieve) The Holy Spirit by getting wrong who He came to and especially who He dwelled with or within.

Needless to say - I have homework to do.  I have that Moody Handbook.  I bought through Amazon as Kindle book I think...off to look in a bit.

I go to a great Seminary (online Luther Rice www.lru.edu ) but must have sped past this in my Systematic Theology.  Time to revisit my notes.

I am so thankful my Pastor and our recent Bill Bright Bible Study at church helped me pause to identify a blind spot.  Noticing differences on all things Holy Spirit related in the OT and the NT in comparison would be good reading for anyone, right?

Nebuchadenezzar certainly noticed something in Daniel....I respectfully and reverentially like to credit The Holy Spirit - though I realize it is not made evident in the text.

What I know of The Holy Spirit is simple stuff, e.g. that its not a good thing to make too much or too little of Him. 
I am certainly glad He came and aligns us with God's will and helps us with our groanings and even when/how we pray.
I am enjoying learning more about Him for sure.

Glory to God...Jesus Lead On!

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