help finding the fathers on a particular scripture

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Chris LeDuc | Forum Activity | Posted: Thu, Jan 8 2015 10:11 AM

Im trying to see what the early church said about Mk 3:21, 31. I have created a Collection of Schaff's works, and as far as I know, that is all that I have that would have specifically what the fathers wrote. I have Logos 5 Platinum. So after creating the collection I used the Cited By Tool and it brought up everything in that collection. I started by using just 3:21 and only got two references. Then I did vs 21-31 but that brought up everything that was primarily about the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit and a kingdom divided etc. 

Does anyone have any suggestion for either creating another collection, any other resources that might have the info I am looking for, or another way to access that info? 

Thanks

PS Ive cross post this in the Logos 5 area and then I added it here, hoping to get more answers. Hopefully this is acceptable...

Posts 932
Justin Gatlin | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 8 2015 10:20 AM

If you have the Logos 6 engine, what you are looking for is the Ancient Literature section of the passage guide. It is a very valuable dataset which includes both direct references and allusions by the church fathers. Since you only mention having L5 and no crossgrades, here are the links it turns up (no direct comments in my library):

Jerome alludes to 3:21 in Ep. 108.19 and Diatessaron in 7:46. Augustine alludes to 3:31 in Diatessaron 16:15 and his tractate on John 10.3

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Chris LeDuc | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 8 2015 10:38 AM

Thanks again, same things I came up with unfortunately. 

Posts 1602
Deacon Steve | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 8 2015 1:31 PM

The Catena Aurea is a good resource for finding comments organized by book/verse.  Here is a link to the volume on Mark:

https://www.logos.com/product/9711/catena-aurea-commentary-on-the-four-gospels-collected-out-of-the-works-of-the-fathers-volume-2-st-mark

The ACCS is similar covering both the OT and NT.  However, I don't think it is broken up.

https://www.logos.com/product/31152/ancient-christian-commentary-on-scripture-complete-set-updated-edition

Posts 1395
James Taylor | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 8 2015 2:25 PM

ACCS only has one comment on Mk 3:21...

His Worried Kinfolk. Jerome: In the gospel we read that even his kinsfolk desired to bind him as one of weak mind. His opponents also reviled him saying, “You are a Samaritan and have a devil.” Letter 108, To Eustochium.


Ancient Christian Commentary on Scripture - Ancient Christian Commentary on Scripture – New Testament II: Mark.

There is also on 1 comment on Mk 3:31(32- as per difference in citation of versification)...

3:31–35 – Who Are My Mother and My Brothers?

Overview. Mary was more blessed in receiving the faith of Christ than in conceiving the flesh of Christ. She was blessed because she kept the Word of God, not merely because she gave birth. Mary’s closeness to Jesus as a natural mother would have been little help for her salvation if she had not borne Christ in her heart. From this passage we learn to view earthly kinship in relation to heavenly kinship (Augustine). To the Lord’s family belong all who do the will of the Father (Pseudo-Clement).

3:32 – His Mother and His Brothers Came

Ordering the Relation to Family. Augustine: It is he who said that no one belongs to his family except those who do the will of his Father. To be sure, he graciously included Mary herself in this number, for she was doing the will of his Father. Thus he spurned the earthly name of his mother in comparison to heavenly kinship.… Do not be ungrateful, pay your duty of gratitude to your mother, repay earthly favors by spiritual ones, temporal by eternal ones. Letter 243, To Laetus.


Ancient Christian Commentary on Scripture - Ancient Christian Commentary on Scripture – New Testament II: Mark.

As for the Catena on Mk 3:21, if you are looking for info on the reference to Jesus' family, there is nothing commented there either.

At 3:31 there are several comments on Jesus' family though...

THEOPHYLACT. Because the relations of the Lord had come to seize upon Him, as if beside Himself, His mother, urged by the sympathy of her love, came to Him; wherefore it is said, And there came unto him his mother, and, standing without, sent unto him, calling him.


CHRYSOSTOM. (non occ.) From this it is manifest that His brethren and His mother were not always with Him; but because He was beloved by them, they come from reverence and affection, waiting without. Wherefore it goes on, And the multitude sat about him, &c.

BEDE. (ubi sup.) The brothers of the Lord must not be thought to be the sons of the ever-virgin Mary, as Helvidius sayp, nor the sons of Joseph by a former marriage, as some think, but rather they must be understood to be His relations.


PSEUDO-CHRYSOSTOM. (Vict. Ant. e Cat. in Marc.) But another Evangelist says, that His brethren did not believe on Him. With which this agrees, which says, that they sought Him, waiting without, and with this meaning the Lord does not mention them as relations. Wherefore it follows, And he answered them, saying, Who is my mother or my brethren? (John 7:5) But He does not here mention His mother and His brethren altogether with reproof, but to shew that a man must honour his own soul above all earthly kindred; wherefore this is fitly said to those who called Him to speak with His mother and relations, as if it were a more useful task than the teaching of salvation.


BEDE. (Ambr in Luc. 6, 36. Bede ubi sup.) Being asked therefore by a message to go out, He declines, not as though He refused the dutiful service of His mother, but to shew that He owes more to His Father’s mysteries than to His mother’s feelings. Nor does He rudely despise His brothers, but, preferring His spiritual work to fleshly relationship, He teaches us that religion is the bond of the heart rather than that of the body. Wherefore it goes on, And looking round about on them which sat about him, he said, Behold my mother and my brethren.

CHRYSOSTOM. (non occ.) By this, the Lord shews that we should honour those who are relations by faith rather than those who are relations by blood. A man indeed is made the mother of Jesus by preaching Him; for He, as it were, brings forth the Lord, when he pours Him into the heart of his hearers.

PSEUDO-JEROME. But let us be assured that we are His brethren and His sisters, if we do the will of the Father; that we may be joint-heirs with Him, for He discerns us not by sex but by our deeds. Wherefore it goes on: Whosoever shall do the will of God, &c.

THEOPHYLACT. He does not therefore say this, as denying His mother, but as shewing that He is worthy of honour, not only because she bore Christ, but on account of her possessing every other virtue.

BEDE. (ubi sup.) But mystically, the mother and brother of Jesus means the synagogue, (from which according to the flesh He sprung,) and the Jewish people who, while the Saviour is teaching within, come to Him, and are not able to enter, because they cannot understand spiritual things. But the crowd eagerly enter, because when the Jews delayed, the Gentiles flocked to Christ; but His kindred, who stand without wishing to see the Lord, are the Jews who obstinately remained without, guarding the letter, and would rather compel the Lord to go forth to them to teach carnal things, than consent to enter in to learn spiritual things of Him. (Ambr in Luc. 6, 37.). If therefore not even His parents when standing without are acknowledged, how shall we be acknowledged, if we stand without? For the word is within and the light within.


Thomas Aquinas. (1842). Catena Aurea: Commentary on the Four Gospels, Collected out of the Works of the Fathers: St. Mark. (J. H. Newman, Ed.) (Vol. 2, pp. 69–70). Oxford: John Henry Parker.

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James Taylor | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 8 2015 2:27 PM

P.s. I don't recall if it's Kosher to post sections of resources here, if it isn't, I apologize.  I'm still a newby to the forums. :-)

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 8 2015 2:53 PM

Create a Passage Guide with the following Logos/Verbum sections:

Note the Ancient Literature section is only available in Logos 6/Verbum 6.

The results:

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 8 2015 2:54 PM

James Taylor:

P.s. I don't recall if it's Kosher to post sections of resources here, if it isn't, I apologize.  I'm still a newby to the forums. :-)

Within reason its just fine.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 13420
Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 9 2015 3:11 AM

Justin Gatlin:

If you have the Logos 6 engine, what you are looking for is the Ancient Literature section of the passage guide. It is a very valuable dataset which includes both direct references and allusions by the church fathers. Since you only mention having L5 and no crossgrades, here are the links it turns up (no direct comments in my library):

Jerome alludes to 3:21 in Ep. 108.19 and Diatessaron in 7:46. Augustine alludes to 3:31 in Diatessaron 16:15 and his tractate on John 10.3

In addition to these, I also found two possible allusions:

FWIW, this search included 44 volumes of the Fathers of the Church series, 16 volumes of The Fathers for English Readers, and 16 volumes of A Library of Fathers of the Holy Catholic Church.

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 9 2015 9:16 PM

Chris LeDuc:
Does anyone have any suggestion for either creating another collection, any other resources that might have the info I am looking for, or another way to access that info?

One option for Logos 5 is using command to set Verbum to Yes, which adds some collections (or use Verbum application).

Logos 6 Ancient Literature has sort option (Work selected), which shows 17 Allusions.  Created "Fathers: Early Church" collection that is a superset of the Verbum Church Fathers collection.

If join Faithlife group => https://faithlife.com/logos-collections/activity then you can copy "Fathers: Early Church" collection into your Logos library.

Keep Smiling Smile

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