Throwing in the towel!

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Posts 58
MarCya Mooney | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 18 2010 10:16 PM

Whoo Alain!  THANK YOU VERY MUCH!   You said exactly what I would have said if I were articulate!  Which obviously I am not!  I seem to always ruffle feathers on here so I just stop responding or even reading the comments.  I am SO glad I caught yours tonight! 

What everyone else on here doesn’t know, and I doubt Logos does either, is that I have brought over 20 customers to their door steps in the past 8 years (That I know of) because I was so satisfied with their product!  But the moment I complain - this forum jumps down my throat, as if I don’t have a right to complain about a bad product that was released too soon and without any support from the company!  IMHO

You hit the nail on the head when you said Logos was a business and not a church and it has hurt their bottom line because, I will never recommend their product again.  I was at a board meeting tonight with over 100 people and you can be sure they all know how I feel about L4!  These are things friends discuss and I wouldn’t want my friends to waste their hard earned money as I have on an inferior product.  (I believe this will be one heck of a program when it’s finished but it is NOT anywhere near what it should be yet)

 

Can’t tell you how impressed I am with your comments!  Thank you so much for the reality check!

Posts 58
MarCya Mooney | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 18 2010 10:23 PM

Mark,  I am using less than 22% of a 300Ghz hard-drive, I'm sure the problem is with L4 NOT my machine or my other programs would be running slow as well.  I have some huge programs for a Photography and graphics business I own and use this computer for.

My system is: Toshiba Tecra Laptop - about 2 months old - 3 Ghz of RAM – Win XP pro - service pack 3 - Paid version of AVG 9.073.0 and I am positive I do not have a virus, malware, etc…

and as of tonight L4 is still as slow as molasses! Nothing I've tried from any of the suggestions has helped!

 

Posts 411
Ken Shawver | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 18 2010 10:37 PM

MarCia, I am not going to jump down your throat and there have been sufficient verbal exchanges today regarding your experience with L4. I have been with Logos for quite sometime and have not experienced the type of issues you have been working to express. I have had some issues, but nothing to the extent of your descriptions. I have a 5 year old XP Dell D505 that has been running L4 with good responsiveness on 2GB of RAM with a Pentium M processor (please understand I am in no way trying to diminish your frustration). Why am I telling you this, because I have an older and newer box. What does it mean to you, just that any issues I have come across Logos or the more helpful members of the forum have helped resolve.

I think Alain, hit the nail on the head by expressing how Bob defuses the situation. I think it is better to work to help than condeming. I for one was not aware of your sight issue and - truthfully was taken aback at your message - but now that I understand the situation it makes more sense. So although I didn't comment earlier I hope you will except my apology for my initial thoughts (even though they weren't expressed).

To get back to my reason for texting, there are folks like Dave Hooten, Thomas Black, and other Power Users that have great insight in how to optimize Logos 4. Before you completely give up, talk to them. Just maybe they might be able to shed some light as to ways to improve your performance. I have found them to be helpful and understanding.

No application will meet everyones expectations. Developers work to create the best application they can, but individuality makes it impossible to satisfy everyone. I hope and pray that you will try working with some of the level-headed Power Users to resolve your situation.

I am a Logos promoter and work to help those who need help.

Wishing you all the best.

In Christ,

Ken

Dell Studio 1555; 15.6 True Life LCD; Intel Core 2 Duo T6600 2.20 GHz, 2M Cache, 800 MHz FSB ; 500GB 5400 HDD; 8GB RAM, Win 10, Chrome 70

http://wiki.logos.com/

Posts 58
MarCya Mooney | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 18 2010 10:49 PM

John,

I appreciate your step-by-step help!  It seem that some would expect me to completely overhaul a perfectly good (NO –make that a GREAT computer that works perfectly with all my other programs) just to accommodate L4!  Not going to happen, even if I technically inclined and I’m not, L4 is NOT worth it.

I will try all your suggestions because they make sense to me. In the mean time, I have gone back to L3 for my studies because L4 is just too distracting.  When I am trying to study and it lags, opening and closing windows just to be able to read, then waiting for them to catch up does NOT make for a very productive bible study!  Shheeezzz it’s like having a 5 year old pulling on my shirt while I’m trying to study and saying, mommy, mommy, mommy!  I just can’t concentrate!  After all, the whole purpose of spending money on L4 was to have a more productive study.  Time is a premium for me (I’m sure for most of us) so constantly fiddling with L4 is just not what I signed on for!

When my work is done in the evenings I try to spend a little time with L4, attempting to make it to work properly, but the bottom line is – this thing is a dog.  Logos hurt their business when they released it prematurely – and it was released too soon no matter what anyone says.  Even if it ran right (And I am not the only one having these problems) there are just so many features missing that are in the older versions.  Few people would have spent their hard earned money on this program had they known there was so much missing.

Now don’t get me wrong – if they ever get L4 up and running to match their vision it will be a dream.  But I believe that is a long, long ways off if ever.  L5 will probably take place before that happens!

Enough of my opinions – I just wanted to thank you for taking the time to give me great visuals and answers that I could understand without chiding me for the way I feel about the program.  People forget that I paid for the privilege having my say about L4. 

Posts 390
Alain Maashe | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 18 2010 11:10 PM

MarCia Mooney:

Whoo Alain!  THANK YOU VERY MUCH!   You said exactly what I would have said if I were articulate!  Which obviously I am not!  I seem to always ruffle feathers on here so I just stop responding or even reading the comments.  I am SO glad I caught yours tonight! 

What everyone else on here doesn’t know, and I doubt Logos does either, is that I have brought over 20 customers to their door steps in the past 8 years (That I know of) because I was so satisfied with their product!  But the moment I complain - this forum jumps down my throat, as if I don’t have a right to complain about a bad product that was released too soon and without any support from the company!  IMHO

You hit the nail on the head when you said Logos was a business and not a church and it has hurt their bottom line because, I will never recommend their product again.  I was at a board meeting tonight with over 100 people and you can be sure they all know how I feel about L4!  These are things friends discuss and I wouldn’t want my friends to waste their hard earned money as I have on an inferior product.  (I believe this will be one heck of a program when it’s finished but it is NOT anywhere near what it should be yet)

 

Can’t tell you how impressed I am with your comments!  Thank you so much for the reality check!

 

MarCia,

I am glad I was able to help.

However, I would like you to keep things in perspective (in fairness to Logos).

Those who responded to you in a less than sympathetic way, while they may be diehard fans of the program and very vocal in these forums, do not represent Logos or its business philosophy. I just hope that you will not let their behavior lead you to penalize Logos.

I also believe that when it comes to what it does and especially its ability to offer a large and searchable library of resources, Logos is way ahead of the pack and offers more value than what competitors offer (if I am honest with myself, I need to admit that despite my disappointment with some of the aspects of version 4 including its unusual hardware requirements, Logos whether version 3 or 4, is still by far the best program when it comes to having an electronic library). From a purely “selfish” perspective, one might have more to gain by sticking with Logos than by switching to another company.

I also believe that the company is committed to improve its product and correct what is wrong. I also believe that presently, Logos 4 is not for everybody (especially when it comes to hardware requirements) and that some people might be better off with version 3.  What encourages me however, is the potential of the new version and the firm belief that as a smart business (who knows the potential danger to its bottom line), Logos will do everything that can be done to satisfy customers like yourself that are frustrated by the speed (or lack thereof) of the present incarnation of Logos 4.

I had the same faith in Microsoft with Vista (I was not about to get a Mac and merely stuck with XP while awaiting improvements) and I knew that even just for the sake of mere business survival, they would listen to their customers and make the necessary change. They did not disappoint (au contraire!). The last time I checked, Logos’ management is closer and more responsive to its customers than Microsoft and I believe that even better things can be expected.

I will just ask you to give it a chance… maybe revert to version 3 and wait three or six months to see if version 4 is optimized.

In the meantime, you might want to get in contact with an official representative of the company and see if they can provide technical support and improve your situation to a point where you will feel comfortable with version 4 and your particular setup (at times Customer Support can work “miracles”).

I have my list of things I do not like about version 4, but as I tweak the program, I find it to suit my needs better than version 3 in addition to the fact that the software is being continually optimized and for a day-one user like myself, the result are starting to the noticeable and seem to announce better things for the future.

Sincerely,

Alain

 

Posts 3810
spitzerpl | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jan 19 2010 5:10 AM

i have had occasions where Logos has been excruciatingly slow. This is when I run tools that try to pull together information, and usually when i have multiple ones set up. For instance if I have the Bible Explorer, passage analysis, cited by, etc. all open things come to a crawl. If you were to combine this with an indexing, I would imagine this could cause the slowness you are referring to. Of course I'm only guessing here. I have no idea what you are trying to do.

Posts 3810
spitzerpl | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jan 19 2010 5:27 AM

MarCia Mooney:
I will try all your suggestions because they make sense to me. In the mean time, I have gone back to L3 for my studies because L4 is just too distracting. 

Once you've given it a go could you let us know if it solves your problem? It may help us give advise to others, and hopefully prevent similar posts from going the direction this one initially did. In a strange sense I'm glad your so disappointed with the product because it speaks to how much you want to to work. :-)

Posts 8660
TCBlack | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jan 19 2010 7:35 AM

Marcia,

Perhaps I've missed this amid the posts.  If so I apologize. 

It will not change the word wrap issue, but may help with speed. 

What are the specifications/mode/ memory etc.  of your video card?  L4 seems to prefer a high powered video card with extra memory.

Hmm Sarcasm is my love language. Obviously I love you. 

Posts 8967
RIP
Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jan 19 2010 8:12 AM

 

MarCia Mooney:
Logos was a business and not a church

MarCia Mooney:
Can’t tell you how impressed I am with your comments!

Hi MarCia,

Caveat: I am not a church either & I am not posting to impress you. Several people have asked you very specific questions about your TECHNICAL problems. We emphathize with your customer service issues but we have no power to do anything about it. However, we may be able to help with your technical issues if you give us a chance.

Your word-wrap problem is not caused by Logos, Windows XP or your hardware. Let's try to identify what is different about your system that is causing this quirk.  Are you running software from Freedom Scientific to aid you in seeing the text on your screen? I had this exact word-wrap quirk directly related to running that software under Windows XP.

Please put aside your other complaints for the moment and let's try to get this solved. (Oh, and just ignore all the distracting posts that don't address your technical problems. Unless you really don't want answers.)

Logos 7 Collectors Edition

Posts 38
Scott Stackelhouse | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jan 19 2010 8:45 AM

MarCia,

 

You've mentioned you are using AVG.  Would you mind turning it off briefly to see how that affects performance of Logos?  L4 uses the hard drive quite a bit, and if AVG is doing OnAccess scanning, that doubles the amount of activity on the hard drive.

In laptops, the hard drive is often the performance bottleneck.  If you have the money, and if your laptop can use it, a solid state disk (SSD) would make a significant difference.  They don't usually have higher throughput, but they can do orders of magnitude more transactions per second.

Short of an SSD, reducing hard disk activity by turning off AVG should help.  Specficially the On Access/Resident scanner portion.

 

--Scott

Posts 847
Praiser | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 23 2010 12:59 PM

I haven't notice anyone asking you what version of Logos 4 you are running. Is it the most current update?  Did you do a minimal crossover or did you upgrade your Library when you purchased Logos 4?

 

Posts 58
MarCya Mooney | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 23 2010 2:22 PM

Hi Praiser,

 

I am using Logos bible software 4.0a SR-3 (4.01.3.5180) whatever that means. 

I don’t know if it’s the full version or not.  I do know I paid for the full version.

It took a VERY lengthy 10 hours to upload and index and then a few days later it uploaded some updates and indexed again for another 8 hours… hopefully I have the latest????

 

My biggest problem is that I don’t have the time, money or inclination to make all the changes that people are suggesting – like modify my brand new laptop or tweaking it to make L4 run more efficiently.  I believe that L4 should have been designed to work on more all computers without expense, time consuming changes.  I do not have a problem with any of my other programs and being a photographer with some huge digital, graphic and enhancement programs that run fast and perfectly without errors makes me know that it’s L4 that is the problem NOT my laptop! 

 

I thank you very much for your attempt to help and if you have quick suggestion I would love to hear it.  But for now I have just decided to leave L4 alone and get on with my studies without it!  I am sorry that I was tempted by the “Lastest, greatest” when L3 was doing the job for me!

 

Thanks again

 

 

 

 

 

Posts 58
MarCya Mooney | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 23 2010 2:39 PM

Scott, I did turn off AVG and you are right - it did help some!  But I can’t leave it off because I have a business where I constantly need to be connected to the internet! 

I just can’t believe that L4 will not run properly with something like AVG.  It’s a disaster for the users if we have to choose which program we want on our computers so that they will be compatible with L4.  I think that’s going to be a problem for everyone not just me.

Thanks for the suggestion I appreciate it!   For now I really have thrown in the towel (for the most part) I just use L3 and get on with life!  I am too busy to keep trouble shooting L4!  It’s a shame though!  I feel l wasted my hard earned money!

 

Posts 187
Rev. D. | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 23 2010 2:42 PM

MarCia, I do truly understand your frustration. I've been working with Logos 4 on my laptop successfully since I purchased it. Now all of a sudden, it just stopped working. Although I've found a few suggestions on various forum posts, I've not even had the strength to wrestle with my laptop and just put the task of trying to fix it off until next week. This is certainly not what I expected. However, after viewing the tutorial videos, along with other supplementary teaching tools, I got an opportunity to see how powerful this program really is and how the various tools and resources will assist me greatly in ministry. You have a right to be frustrated and nobody can tell you otherwise, since we are not walking in your shoes. But my prayer is that you will reconsider using Logos 4 after more of the issues are worked out and all of the features are added. I 

Regardless of your ultimate decision, know that I am praying that it all works out well for you. We must remember the ultimate prize, which is to share the gospel of Jesus Christ with the world. And in times like these, that's what really is important. Regardless as to whether you utilize Logos to assist in that endeavor or not. 

Be blessed, MarCia, be blessed!

Christina

iMac 27 inch, 3.1 GHz Core i5, 1T HD, 4 GB RAM

 

Posts 3733
BillS | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 23 2010 3:31 PM

Hi MarCia,

From your posts, I'm still not quite sure whether you bought more books when you moved to Logos 4 (went from Scholar's Gold to Platinum, for example?) or whether you invested in the crossgrade that got you a few new resources & the Logos 4 package. It matters... Here's why.

If you invested in an upgrade, you can download all your new books back into Logos 3 & keep working until you feel Logos 4 is ready. Instructions & a script to help you do that are on the Logos blog at : http://blog.logos.com/archives/2009/12/using_your_new_logos_4_resources_in_logos_3_or_logos_for_mac_1.html .

Although I was one of the beta testers back in Nov, I still feel that Logos 4's biggest hudle for full acceptance (at least, mine, anyway) is how good Logos 3 already was. I'm using both. After upgrading to Platinum, I downloaded all my resources back into L3 so I can use them there...

Now I have the best of both.

Many blessings to you.

Grace & Peace,
Bill


MSI GF63 8RD, I-7 8850H, 32GB RAM, 1TB SSD, 2TB HDD, NVIDIA GTX 1050Max
iPhone 12 Pro Max 512Gb
Fire 10HD 64GB 7th Gen

Posts 58
MarCya Mooney | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 23 2010 3:50 PM

Oh okay - I see what you are asking... (It’s so hard when you aren't face to face isn't it) No I didn't go up to the Scholar's gold or platinum!  I was told I was getting more books with L4, but I don't know what they are and haven’t appended to load them into L3.

I have decided with my time constraints that it really is best for me to just go back to L3 and give up on L4 until they get it functioning up to par along with adding back all the great functions they left out that were so useful in L3.

Thanks for your help!

 

 

Posts 9947
George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 23 2010 5:03 PM

MarCia Mooney:
Thanks for the suggestion I appreciate it!   For now I really have thrown in the towel (for the most part) I just use L3 and get on with life!  I am too busy to keep trouble shooting L4!  It’s a shame though!  I feel l wasted my hard earned money!

Marcia,

It's been a long-standing policy with Logos (perhaps going back to when God said, "Let there be light" that they do not charge for the program.  If you spent any money then you spent it for resources which are probably usable in L3 as has been explained already.  You need not feel that you have wasted your money.  What you have done is to gain some new resources.

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

Posts 58
MarCya Mooney | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 23 2010 5:13 PM

Oh brother…. who are you trying to fool?  I spent and extra 100plus bucks for a worthless program!  I ALREADY owned L3!  How does one responde to such ignorance?

Posts 147
Scott H. Clark | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 23 2010 5:20 PM

At the risk of being called ignorant along with George, I submit you might well take Logos up on their "no questions asked" refund policy.  You would then be out nothing more than your time. 

 

Posts 142
Michael Sullivan | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 23 2010 5:29 PM

MarCia Mooney:

Oh brother…. who are you trying to fool?  I spent and extra 100plus bucks for a worthless program!  I ALREADY owned L3!  How does one responde to such ignorance?

That last reply from you MarCia was too harsh.  Frustrated or not it was uncalled for and you are plain wrong!

I was and still am a Bibleworks user who also uses Logos for their Library.  The fact is that you indeed got New Resources, most of which you can use in Logos 3 when you crossgraded or upgraded.  They are the ones that are called "NEW" when you actually take the time to look what each package offers in the description page.

If you want to use these resources in Logos 3, sync your liscence in Logos 3 and then go to your account setting at Logos.com hit the unlock and download and the new resources you have the LOGOS 4 will be downloaded to Logos 3.

 

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