Logos 3/Libronix

Re: Reasons why we still use L3 ... so keep on giving us new resources ... please!

tom — 2012-01-14T12:43:02Z

Stephen Edward Paynter:
The whole mandatory cloud thing is a disaster from my point of view.

Then please vote for this on Logos' uservoice page: http://logos.uservoice.com/forums/42823-logos-bible-software-4/suggestions/2483307-add-an-option-that-allows-a-user-not-to-upload-the

Re: Reasons why we still use L3 ... so keep on giving us new resources ... please!

J. Morris — 2012-01-14T06:40:11Z

Bob Pritchett:

David Paul:
I only met Bob once,

This was at Camp Logos, right? I recall you showed me how you present using the Logos 3 notes, and we talked about how Logos 4 notes weren't flexible enough for your needs.

I think 4.5 actually adds much (not all) of what you wanted in the notes system, including many things I said we had no plans to do. So I'd like to offer 4.5 (releasing soon!) in my defense on the point of "never changing my mind." I do.

... I almost passed out!

OK... maybe not, but I am so pleased to read this about notes... I do remember some of those former statements made by Bob... I'm glad you 'came around' good sir. Now you just need to implement the other 238 things we all want...

Re: Reasons why we still use L3 ... so keep on giving us new resources ... please!

Jacob Hantla — 2012-01-14T02:11:03Z

George Somsel:

Stephen Edward Paynter:
I agree that I ought to feel fortunate that Logos is very fair on their license agreement; and I do. Indeed, that flexibility helped me choose L3 in the first place, and it certainly helped ensure I invested in Logos resources. (If one has a married couple with overlapping theological interests, if one can't share a Logos resource, the effective price of every resource doubles ... pricing almost every resource totally out of the market. Paper becomes so much cheaper, that good stewardship practically demands that one keeps with paper.)

You might consider two sets of layouts—one set for you and one for your wife (perhaps differentiating the two sets by your initials). If you save your layout each time, you can then pick up where you left off. The same could be done with notes—begin the name of each note with your initials (e.g., SEP_Rom01).

This is what my wife and I do as well. We also have separate note files. I actually love it. We're able to read about what we've each been learning as we read. If we are reading the same book, we can just use different highlighting style and either hide the other person's or benefit from seeing what has impacted the other.

Re: Reasons why we still use L3 ... so keep on giving us new resources ... please!

Dave Hooton — 2012-01-13T23:56:25Z

Stephen Edward Paynter:

George Somsel:
You might consider two sets of layouts—one set for you and one for your wife (perhaps differentiating the two sets by your initials). If you save your layout each time, you can then pick up where you left off. The same could be done with notes—begin the name of each note with your initials (e.g., SEP_Rom01).

Thank you ... this is the most practical way forward given where Logos is now going.

In each resource you can use the tri-colour icon (Visual Filters) to toggle each other's Notes off. This becomes important in v4.5 where Highlighting is added to Notes files, but you have to get over the initial hurdle that your 4.3 highlights are added to Palette-specific Note files.

Re: Reasons why we still use L3 ... so keep on giving us new resources ... please!

Stephen Edward Paynter — 2012-01-13T08:19:19Z

George Somsel:

Stephen Edward Paynter:
I agree that I ought to feel fortunate that Logos is very fair on their license agreement; and I do. Indeed, that flexibility helped me choose L3 in the first place, and it certainly helped ensure I invested in Logos resources. (If one has a married couple with overlapping theological interests, if one can't share a Logos resource, the effective price of every resource doubles ... pricing almost every resource totally out of the market. Paper becomes so much cheaper, that good stewardship practically demands that one keeps with paper.)

You might consider two sets of layouts—one set for you and one for your wife (perhaps differentiating the two sets by your initials). If you save your layout each time, you can then pick up where you left off. The same could be done with notes—begin the name of each note with your initials (e.g., SEP_Rom01).

Thank you ... this is the most practical way forward given where Logos is now going.

Re: Reasons why we still use L3 ... so keep on giving us new resources ... please!

Stephen Edward Paynter — 2012-01-13T08:17:17Z

Mark Smith:

That's what I've done in order to do beta testing. I have a separate user account on my computer and that has a duplicate of all my resources, etc. However it does sync with my one and only Logos account so notes, highlights, etc. are the same in both. Unless you have a second Logos account you really are stuck with shared notes, highlights, clippings, etc. in Logos 4.

You could make one account static by specifying that it not use the Internet. You'd lose the backup of the cloud doing that and if you wanted to share new resources, everything would have to sync together and you'd be back to a mess. That's about it.

Yes, much as I like how fast L4 searches are, and how nice it is to organise one's windows, in this (as in much else) it really doesn't suit me half as well as L3 does (did). The whole mandatory cloud thing is a disaster from my point of view.

Re: Reasons why we still use L3 ... so keep on giving us new resources ... please!

Rosie Perera — 2012-01-10T06:59:29Z

DMB:

Bob ... no offense but L3 is really good. You referenced the object model documentation ... do you know where they moved it (it's a dead tag)?

Bob's link is working now. Must have been a temporary hiccup on their server.

Re: Reasons why we still use L3 ... so keep on giving us new resources ... please!

David Paul — 2012-01-08T22:08:29Z

Bob Pritchett:

The good news is, you don't need me to "allow" you to support Logos 3. Logos 3 is as open as ever; you can add features, write scripts against it, etc. The documentation is still available: http://www.logos.com/training/objectmodel

And I hope you'll take a look at 4.5 and see if it's closer to what you wanted in notes. If not, maybe it's time to send me your wishlist again, now that I've backed down and started re-architecting notes.

I think I forgot about the script writing element of L3...I suppose because I don't have the requisite skill set to make use of it. But its existence is a bright spot. Perhaps some of us diehard L3 users can form a user group to utilize this.

Bob, you actually brought a tear (or two) to my eyes. Whether 4.5 ends up being all I need, for the first time since we spoke I actually have HOPE!!! I will look at 4.5 and if I still have a wish list I will pass it on.

Thank you!

(After considering getting my fortysomething frame off the couch so that I could go out and skip down the street with joy, I've decided to just go with the emotion.)

Re: Reasons why we still use L3 ... so keep on giving us new resources ... please!

MJD — 2012-01-08T22:05:26Z

Stephen Edward Paynter:

MJD:

Stephen

I think you need to consider yourself fortunate that Logos is very fair on their license agreement. I believe the spirit of the Logos user agreement is truly for one user, and Logos has tried to be very lenient allowing a wife and husband to use one copy of a Logos program. I don't get how you can be dissatisfied because multiple users on a single license cause issues while using L4 -- when truly you only own one license???

I agree that I ought to feel fortunate that Logos is very fair on their license agreement; and I do. Indeed, that flexibility helped me choose L3 in the first place, and it certainly helped ensure I invested in Logos resources. (If one has a married couple with overlapping theological interests, if one can't share a Logos resource, the effective price of every resource doubles ... pricing almost every resource totally out of the market. Paper becomes so much cheaper, that good stewardship practically demands that one keeps with paper.)

(Admittedly, one can't share a paper book at the same time ... but one can look at different paper books at different times from one's one has bought ... one doesn't have to buy duplicates of everything in one's library.)

However, I was dismayed when L4 arrived, and I found it too integrated with the internet to support my needs ... as much as I love L4 generally. I felt a little hard done by. It wasn't catastrophic because L3 continued. ... now, I am unsure what my future spending will be on Logos resources. We might have to move away from Logos, because if we are forced to get two liciences, everything will effectively double in price.

Stephen,

I completely understand your position on sharing a paper book between multiple people. You and your wife can still share the same book in L4, the only thing is you would see the same notes and highlighting. But, in a real book you would share any notes and highlighting in the same book as well, correct?

I believe Logos is very lenient and the spirit of Bob's post shows his compassion. But, other users want to see the progress continue on the platform to become more robust, and I love the sync feature for my personal use.

Maybe there is a way Logos could have an (A) and (B) toggle switch that would allow users to annotate the same resource differently for different needs. This would allow for a husband and wife to share as well. Maybe, you should submit this request as a suggestion?? But, I am sure there might be bigger problems with potential illicit users.

Blessings, I hope something is worked out for you.

Re: Reasons why we still use L3 ... so keep on giving us new resources ... please!

ELA — 2012-01-08T18:35:07Z

Stephen Edward Paynter:

Perhaps if we all articulate why we still use L3, we might get Bob to change his mind about not creating any more new resources for it.

why I like L3

the text is so much better when I read. (Until now no one has been able to help me get a clear text in L4. Even with a brand new computer the letters are not sharp and clear)
the program has been translated to my native language
it uses very little computer power. In fact, at home I use a nice older computer only for studying. This computer is offline (no distractions - for at weak personality - from the Internet!) This computer has only biblesoftware and digital books installed.
I feel in total control of the way the program works and of the installation - and the ressources are easy to move around.
rarely have I had need of technical support.
and not least: I can go to bed with peace - knowing I can always - anywhere or in the middle of nowhere, Internet or no Internet,make an installation of my library and my notes. So even after I switch completely to L4 I will keep my cd's and files - just in case..........

I do like L4 a lot and I use it too for searching, wordstudies which it does much better than L3. I will eventually switch completely - especially when the text (hopefully) gets more clear!

Re: Reasons why we still use L3 ... so keep on giving us new resources ... please!

Andy Evans — 2012-01-08T16:24:28Z

George Somsel:

You might consider two sets of layouts—one set for you and one for your wife (perhaps differentiating the two sets by your initials). If you save your layout each time, you can then pick up where you left off. The same could be done with notes—begin the name of each note with your initials (e.g., SEP_Rom01).

Dear Stephen

Admittedly, my wife is a casual user of L4, but this is the solution we have adopted. It works well for us.

We have used favourites to organise our notes within two master folders, one folder specific to my wife and I. All my notes and clippings, with a unique prefix, as George has suggested, fall within my master folder (and are then arranged topically). My wife has a slightly more mysterious (to me at least), but workable approach. This pretty much keeps everything separate.

I have created custom highlights in order, again, to differentiate from my wife's markups (having said this, it turns out that she is not particularly into highlighting).

It may be, given the complexity of your respective work, this solution is not sufficient. I would honestly be interested in understanding the nature of these limitations. It may be that someone can assist in suggesting a workable solution.

I do not intend to diminish the loss of L3. It is just that I wonder if your situation is not perhaps as hopeless as it first may seem.

God bless,

Andy

Re: Reasons why we still use L3 ... so keep on giving us new resources ... please!

George Somsel — 2012-01-08T16:11:19Z

Stephen Edward Paynter:
I agree that I ought to feel fortunate that Logos is very fair on their license agreement; and I do. Indeed, that flexibility helped me choose L3 in the first place, and it certainly helped ensure I invested in Logos resources. (If one has a married couple with overlapping theological interests, if one can't share a Logos resource, the effective price of every resource doubles ... pricing almost every resource totally out of the market. Paper becomes so much cheaper, that good stewardship practically demands that one keeps with paper.)

You might consider two sets of layouts—one set for you and one for your wife (perhaps differentiating the two sets by your initials). If you save your layout each time, you can then pick up where you left off. The same could be done with notes—begin the name of each note with your initials (e.g., SEP_Rom01).

Re: Reasons why we still use L3 ... so keep on giving us new resources ... please!

Stephen Edward Paynter — 2012-01-08T15:59:27Z

MJD:

Stephen

I think you need to consider yourself fortunate that Logos is very fair on their license agreement. I believe the spirit of the Logos user agreement is truly for one user, and Logos has tried to be very lenient allowing a wife and husband to use one copy of a Logos program. I don't get how you can be dissatisfied because multiple users on a single license cause issues while using L4 -- when truly you only own one license???

I agree that I ought to feel fortunate that Logos is very fair on their license agreement; and I do. Indeed, that flexibility helped me choose L3 in the first place, and it certainly helped ensure I invested in Logos resources. (If one has a married couple with overlapping theological interests, if one can't share a Logos resource, the effective price of every resource doubles ... pricing almost every resource totally out of the market. Paper becomes so much cheaper, that good stewardship practically demands that one keeps with paper.)

(Admittedly, one can't share a paper book at the same time ... but one can look at different paper books at different times from one's one has bought ... one doesn't have to buy duplicates of everything in one's library.)

However, I was dismayed when L4 arrived, and I found it too integrated with the internet to support my needs ... as much as I love L4 generally. I felt a little hard done by. It wasn't catastrophic because L3 continued. ... now, I am unsure what my future spending will be on Logos resources. We might have to move away from Logos, because if we are forced to get two liciences, everything will effectively double in price.

Re: Reasons why we still use L3 ... so keep on giving us new resources ... please!

MJ. Smith — 2012-01-08T03:47:05Z

Bob Pritchett:
some hacking of XML files (making personal timelines and parallel passages),

Hey, I never knew I was a hacker. I thought I was just taking advantage of the capabilities of the system. My grandson will be so proud of me.

Re: Reasons why we still use L3 ... so keep on giving us new resources ... please!

Denise — 2012-01-08T03:40:42Z

Bob ... no offense but L3 is really good. You referenced the object model documentation ... do you know where they moved it (it's a dead tag)?