General

Re: Yikes! another appeal to the Greeks!

NB.Mick — 2011-12-16T15:10:05Z

Denise Barnhart:

Emile, TLNT got a lot of discussion last year (for the same reason!). It's summarized here: http://wiki.logos.com/Resouce$3a_TLNT_$28Theological_Lexicon_of_the_NT$29

Very helpful! Much that is referenced there comes from this thread http://community.logos.com/forums/p/30695/227703.aspx - everybody is invited to look into it, as more material is there, including a thorough review cited by DAL.

People sitting on the fence about TLNT might notice the reviews at Amazon http://www.amazon.com/Theological-Lexicon-New-Testament-Set/product-reviews/1565630351/ref=dp_top_cm_cr_acr_txt?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=1 that come to 4.5 overall. Two very detailed four star reviewers are full of praise, but deduct one star since Spicq doesn't treat all NT Greek words (but neither do Kittel and NIDNTT, as Mark Barns cited from JETS in the thread above). I like the one titled "What a Gem!" best, it gives much information on how TLNT fares compared with other lexicons the reviewer uses.

Mick

Re: Yikes! another appeal to the Greeks!

Rick Brannan — 2011-12-16T13:34:19Z

Hi EmileB (and others)

Way back in March 2011 I wrote a blog post about Spicq's TLNT. Included are a few paragraphs from the translator/editor (Dr. James D. Ernest) on the usefulness of Spicq.

http://blog.logos.com/2011/03/what_about_the_theological_lexicon_of_the_new_testament_tlnt/

Hope it helps.

Re: Yikes! another appeal to the Greeks!

Denise — 2011-12-16T13:22:30Z

Emile, TLNT got a lot of discussion last year (for the same reason!). It's summarized here: http://wiki.logos.com/Resouce$3a_TLNT_$28Theological_Lexicon_of_the_NT$29

Re: Yikes! another appeal to the Greeks!

NB.Mick — 2011-12-16T12:55:43Z

EmileB:
*sigh* Mick, I'm thinking my wife is gonna want to have a little talk with you...

thanks for the invitation - will she send me an overseas flight ticket ?... business-class, window seat would be nice ...but then she might take the money from your Logos budget - and who knows what they have in store for next week

EmileB:
Your post was very helpful... too helpful...

Thanks a lot. Actually I forgot to include the footnotes, that discuss alternative translations in more detail:

Re: Yikes! another appeal to the Greeks!

John Fidel — 2011-12-16T12:50:15Z

Spiqc is far from exhaustive. It does not have entries to many words included in LN, BDAG and TDNT. The entries it does have are well done, footnoted and elaborate in ways not always addressed in the other lexicons.

This is from the preface:

"Not only do I study a restricted choice of words, but also my intention is theological. What interests me is not orthographic novelties, idioms, phonetics, or declensions, but the semantics and the religious and moral sense of the language of the NT."

The number of entries given the length of the resource indicates how extensive some of the articles are. This will not work as your primary lexicon, but supplements BDAG or the others very well.

Re: Yikes! another appeal to the Greeks!

Josh — 2011-12-16T11:40:22Z

Wow! That was very helpful...thanks!

Here is the screenshot of BDAG (because screenshots are better!)

Re: Yikes! another appeal to the Greeks!

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) — 2011-12-16T11:29:53Z

NewbieMick:
Maybe someone can post the pistikos entry from other lexicons for comparison. Draw your conclusions.

πιστικός, 3 pistikos faithful; genuine(?)*

According to Mark 14:3 and John 12:3 the vessel for anointing Jesus contained (costly) nard ointment (μύρου νάρδου). The adj. πιστικός, modifying νάρδος, probably means here genuine, unadulterated (Spicq, Notes II, 696: “a perfume of genuine nard” or “extremely pure nard”). Possibly, however, πιστικός derives from a name (Theophylact, PG CXXIII, 645B; cf. John 12:3 Vg.: pisticus). BAGD s.v. 3; Spicq, Notes II, 695f.

Balz, H. R., & Schneider, G. (1990-). Vol. 3: Exegetical dictionary of the New Testament (91). Grand Rapids, Mich.: Eerdmans.

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πιστικός, ή, όν (πίστις; since Pla., Gorg. 455a) only as modifying νάρδος, w. πολυτελής or πολύτιμος Mk 14:3; J 12:3; variously interpreted, but evidently suggesting exceptional quality.

① genuine, unadulterated. In later writers π. means that which belongs to πίστις, ‘faithful, trustworthy’ (Artem. 2, 32; Vett. Val. p. 10, 14; pap ‘trusted pers.’; Celsus 1, 39 λόγος πιστικός). Fr. this basis π. has become interpreted to mean genuine, unadulterated (Eus., Dem. Ev. 9, 8, 9 τοῦ πιστικοῦ τῆς καινῆς διαθήκης κράματος. Given as a possibility by Theophyl. Sim., s. 3 below. See B-D-F §113, 2; Mlt-H. 379f).

② The derivation fr. πίνω (so L-S-J-M), w. the sense drinkable, liquid, is very improbable (Frisk II 541).

③ Some derive π. from a name of some kind (Theophyl. Sim. [MPG CXXIII 645b] πιστικὴν νάρδον νοεῖ ἤτοι εἶδος νάρδου οὕτω λεγόμενον πιστικὴν ἢ τὴν ἄδολον νάρδον); e.g. the Gk. form of the Lat. spicatum (Galen XII 604 K. τὰ πολυτελῆ μύρα τῶν πλουσίων γυναικῶν ἃ καλοῦσιν αὗται σπίκατα other reff. Wetstein on Mk 14:3.—EbNestle, ZNW 3, 1902, 169ff), or fr. πιστάκια ‘pistachio tree’ (AMerx on Mk 14:3; MBlack, An Aramaic Approach3, ’67, 223–25) or the East-Indian picƷita, the name of the plant Nardostachys Jatamansi.—UvWilamowitz, Reden u. Vorträge2 1902, 204; AJannaris, ClR 16, 1902, 9; RKöbert, Biblica 29, ’48, 279–81. W-S. §16, 3b note 24. S. also νάρδος.—DELG s.v. πείθομαι. M.M. Spicq.

Arndt, W., Danker, F. W., & Bauer, W. (2000). A Greek-English lexicon of the New Testament and other early Christian literature (3rd ed.) (818). Chicago: University of Chicago Press.

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SPIKENARD

nardos (νάρδος, 3487), is derived, through the Semitic languages (Heb. nerd, Syriac nardin), from the Sanskrit nalada, “a fragrant oil,” procured from the stem of an Indian plant. The Arabs call it the “Indian spike.” The adjective pistikos is attached to it in the NT, Mark 14:3; John 12:3; pistikos, if taken as an ordinary Greek word, would signify “genuine.” There is evidence, however, that it was regarded as a technical term. It has been suggested that the original reading was pistakes, i.e., the Pistacia Terebinthus, which grows in Cyprus, Syria, Palestine, etc., and yields a resin of very fragrant odor, and in such inconsiderable quantities as to be very costly. “Nard was frequently mixed with aromatic ingredients … so when scented with the fragrant resin of the pistake it would quite well be called nardos pistakes” (E. N. Bennett, in the Classical Review for 1890, Vol. iv, p. 319). The oil used for the anointing of the Lord’s head was worth about L/12, and must have been of the most valuable kind.¶ In the Sept., Song of Sol. 1:12; 4:13, 14.¶

Vine, W. E., Unger, M. F., & White, W. (1996). Vol. 2: Vine's Complete Expository Dictionary of Old and New Testament Words (593). Nashville, TN: T. Nelson.

Keep Smiling

Re: Yikes! another appeal to the Greeks!

EmileB — 2011-12-16T11:06:02Z

*sigh* Mick, I'm thinking my wife is gonna want to have a little talk with you...

Your post was very helpful... too helpful...

Re: Yikes! another appeal to the Greeks!

NB.Mick — 2011-12-16T09:53:29Z

EmileB:
Hoping that you'll tell me its totally useless, redundant, and a waste of money

I don't have Kittel, big or small, LSJ or BDAG either, for that matter. Thus I can't compare. But I bought Spiqc back in March (paid more) and so I now just opened it to where I left it last time: the entry to pistikos ("authentic" or "pure", used of the nard in Mark 14:3 ).

Louw Nida, my top prioritized lexicon, is short but to the point.

79.97 πιστικός, ή, όν: pertaining to being pure, with the possible implication of a quality which can be trusted—‘pure.’9 μύρου νάρδου πιστικῆς πολυτίμου ‘a very expensive perfume made of pure nard’ Jn 12:3.

Enhanced Strongs dito.

4101 πιστικός [pistikos /pis·tik·os/] adj. From 4102; GK 4410; Two occurrences; AV translates as “spikenard + 3487” twice. 1 pertaining to belief. 1A having the power of persuading, skilful in producing belief. 1B trusty, faithful, that can be relied on.

Other small dictionaries just give a gloss.

Now see TLNT: (note that I like the resource links on top of the entry).

The size of the entry may be compared to M-M, another Greek lexicon resource:

I concede that I'm a learner, not a scholar. Thus Spiqc's TLNT suits my level of understanding while MM is a bit over my head.

Maybe someone can post the pistikos entry from other lexicons for comparison. Draw your conclusions.

Hope this helps,

Mick

Re: Yikes! another appeal to the Greeks!

Allen Browne — 2011-12-16T09:49:47Z

3 x 600pp volumes of Greek lexicon that is quite complementary to what we already have?

Doesn't sound redundant to me. I'm in. :-)

Yikes! another appeal to the Greeks!

EmileB — 2011-12-16T09:20:11Z

Ok... I received great help from Mark Barnes and all you others regarding recent some Greek purchases (in CP and otherwise). I have a fairly respectable Greek library... and am trying to get back up to speed in Greek. As a result of that thread I have purchased NIDNTT and LSJ (as previously I had the Liddell Intermediate). Am pleased with both purchases.

Now having done that last night, Logos is tempting me with their latest Christmas deal... the Theological Lexicon of the NT (3 vols)... normally $89.95, now $49.95.

I do have Kittel and a number of others. What can our Greek speaking/reading friends tell us about this resource? How worthwhile is this addition? It seems quite readable and interesting in the sample pages. How useful do you find it for NT studies, and how would you compare it to the other Greek resources we discussed?

Hoping that you'll tell me its totally useless, redundant, and a waste of money

(as ever, my wallet urges me to beware of Logos bearing [Greek] gifts).