When Bible Software Marketing Crosses a Theological Line

Page 4 of 5 (96 items) < Previous 1 2 3 4 5 Next >
This post has 95 Replies | 8 Followers

Posts 161
David Roberts | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Feb 2 2015 6:27 PM

Phil Gons, I appreciate the spirit of your response even though I and many others believe the original post was below the belt and delivered with a strict standard that many of us doubt the author would apply to himself with the same rigor. Judging fellow brothers in Christ (Faithlife) while giving yourself a free pass is one of the most ugliest things Christians can do.

When that author is able and willing to offer to pay all the mortgages and living expenses of all the Faithlife employees, then he can talk about how to do things as a ministry, but to apply his suggestions to the fullest would result in so many losing their jobs and almost certainly the financial collapse of Faithlife.

In the Millennium, Christ will bankroll all His projects, but we don't have that kind of financial support right now, so unfortunately, we're stuck with using the business models of the world until He comes.

Posts 341
Abram K-J | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Feb 2 2015 6:39 PM

I was careful in my post not to call anyone's character into question, but to question the "marketing mantras" at Faithlife that seem to me to be at odds with important values of stewardship, etc.--noting clearly that this effect on their end could be "however unintentionally."

I'm baffled at the number of ad hominem replies on this thread. At least some of the posters engage the issue itself (that I brought up in the OP) after making their ad hominem remarks.

David--as for applying the standard to myself, you might have missed my, "I’m as guilty of this mentality as anyone (probably more so)–and I want to fight it."

Abram K-J: Pastor, Writer, Freelance Editor, Youth Ministry Consultant
Blog: Words on the Word

Posts 180
Paul C | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Feb 2 2015 6:43 PM

Posts 808
Kevin Maples | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 3 2015 5:11 AM

Phil Gons:
you will benefit from Logos books that you didn't intend to use or even know that you had.
I have experienced that benefit repeatedly!

Phil Gons:
If you have the right books that are richly tagged, interconnected, and deeply integrated into the tools of the software, the software will go and fetch you relevant discussions to your study without your even knowing you have the book.
I think this is a benefit that many people do not understand until they have experienced it. I believe it is one of the greatest strengths of Logos books over other editions. I know you already market in this direction, but I think if more potential users understood this it would greatly increase sales and usage. 

Posts 808
Kevin Maples | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 3 2015 5:20 AM

I think it is important for us users to remember that all products have a shelf life. When I was in elementary school my parents bought me a lot of educational software for the Apple IIc. None of it works any longer. I don't even know if the Apple IIc would fire up if I tried it. When you buy a print book, it gets musty or mildews or eventually rots, unless you work hard to maintain it through proper climate control which costs money, time, and effort. Also, when a print book gets updated, you don't get a free new copy from the publisher.  

Logos books are the same. The only way for us to keep those books maintained and up to date is for Logos to continue to make new profits which they have chosen to do through the sale of books. They could have chosen to charge for updates, new engines, or have a subscription fee. I'm glad they opted for the model they did because I understand they need revenue to stay in business and I'd rather buy new books every year than pay a fee or buy updates. So I don't mind their marketing. I know my limits and I stick to them. I only spend what I can, that keeps them in business and me afloat. Ultimately, it's a balancing act. 

This is not a reply to any particular person's comments, just a general observation in response to the entire thread. 

Posts 1454
Forum MVP
Veli Voipio | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 3 2015 5:36 AM

Kevin Maples:
 I think this is a benefit that many people do not understand until they have experienced it. 

Some users may have benefited already, but without knowing about it?

Gold package, and original language material and ancient text material, SIL and UBS books, discourse Hebrew OT and Greek NT. PC with Windows 8.1

Posts 2372
Jan Krohn | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 3 2015 7:02 PM

Logos has some very good thoughts in their own blog.

http://blog.vyrso.com/tag/debt-proof-living/

Point 4 is crucial:

"4. The average American has over $15,000 in credit-card debt. What’s the first step someone should take to get out of debt?

Stop adding to it. Remove the temptation. [...]"

Clear advice from a Logos approved expert.

Past IT Consultant. Past Mission Worker. Entrepreneur. Future Seminary Student.
Why Amazon sucks: Full background story of my legal dispute with the online giant

Posts 2860
Doc B | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 3 2015 7:11 PM

Abram K-J:
I'm baffled at the number of ad hominem replies on this thread.

I'm not. There seems to be a handful of folks who live in the forums for the specific purpose of being nasty to people who ask a certain type of question.

You have to learn to tune out their shouting and focus on the people who are actually giving answers or engaging in discussion. I sometimes slip and shoot back (not literally, with a gun, but figuratively, by pointing out their behavior); it is rarely effective. So we plod on.

I appreciate you bringing up this question. It is worth considering, and has theological/biblical merit. I thought you were careful to not sound shrill or angry, but rather voiced an opinion about a marketing scheme. Whether folks agree with your analysis of the plan or not, discussions like this are in order, I think.

My thanks to the various MVPs. Without them Logos would have died early. They were the only real help available.

Faithlife Corp. owes the MVPs free resources for life.

Posts 2860
Doc B | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 3 2015 7:16 PM

Bryan S.:

Wow... And I thought my thread on needing a user manual went south...Zip it!

Don't give up on that one, Bryan. I'm not.

My thanks to the various MVPs. Without them Logos would have died early. They were the only real help available.

Faithlife Corp. owes the MVPs free resources for life.

Posts 183
Bryan S. | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 3 2015 8:16 PM
Doc B:

Bryan S.:

Wow... And I thought my thread on needing a user manual went south...Zip it!

Don't give up on that one, Bryan. I'm not.

I'm not...I just did a logos survey that was sent to me in which I articulated that very point... Good to here from ya Doc B...

Christianity has not been tried and found wanting; it's been found difficult and not tried.

Posts 601
Ted Weis | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 3 2015 9:52 PM

Paul Lee:
In consumerism, freedom is often equated with consumer's choice; and the consumer's need are unlimited and insatiable (Craig Bartholomew. Christ and Consumerism. http://www.reformationalpublishingproject.com/pdf_books/Scanned_Books_PDF/ChristandConsumerism.pdf) As we build our collection of books, we risk being enslaved by our consumerist instinct while forgetting the kingdom's perspective. 

Here's a challenge: Instead of selling the books you acquire in Logos, give those hard copies away to someone else.

Posts 31
Joshua Ellis | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Feb 5 2015 2:55 AM

Brian W. Davidson:

I don't think this post is below the belt at all. I think it makes a valid point. I love Logos, but based on my experience their marketing puts a bad taste in the mouths of many people.

Well said.

Posts 570
Schumitinu | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Feb 5 2015 4:15 PM

Kevin Maples:

The only way for us to keep those books maintained and up to date is for Logos to continue to make new profits which they have chosen to do through the sale of books. They could have chosen to charge for updates, new engines, or have a subscription fee. I'm glad they opted for the model they did because I understand they need revenue to stay in business and I'd rather buy new books every year than pay a fee or buy updates. So I don't mind their marketing. I know my limits and I stick to them. I only spend what I can, that keeps them in business and me afloat. Ultimately, it's a balancing act. 


This is true!Yes

Posts 321
Rene Atchley | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Feb 5 2015 6:36 PM

Sometimes I wonder if the marketing dept. at Faithlife could be a more powerful service to the Church than any of its software products.

Posts 525
Kent | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Feb 5 2015 7:36 PM

Rene Atchley:

Sometimes I wonder if the marketing dept. at Faithlife could be a more powerful service to the Church than any of its software products.

So would McDonalds but its not their business. Their business is to sell the product they produce to customers who want it. Logos sells resources to customers who want theological products. Noet sells resources to customers who want Philosophical products. That is their business and as it has been said time and time again it is not a ministry to the Church or anyone else.

Some complained when Logos started selling Catholic products.

Some complained when Logos started selling Seventh day Adventist products.

Some complained when Logos started selling secular classics.

As far as the Theological line being crossed I would ask WHOSE THEOLOGICAL LINE?

Posts 3938
abondservant | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Feb 5 2015 7:52 PM

I now declare my self the arbiter of theological lines. If you have a question regarding theological lines, please take a number and I'll get back to you in 6-8 months. Thanks for your time.

Just kidding. That is a good point Kent. There are as many non-(or quazi-non) heretical theological view points on a given subject as there are people in a given room in general.

Which reminds me that theological discussions are meant to be had at Christiandiscourse.com .

L2 lvl4, L3 Scholars, L4 Scholars, L5 Platinum,  L6 Collectors. L7 Baptist Portfolio. L8 Baptist Platinum.

Posts 623
JAL | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Feb 5 2015 9:42 PM

Kent:
As far as the Theological line being crossed I would ask WHOSE THEOLOGICAL LINE?
When they cancelled Dracula, that came close to crossing mine.Wink

"The Christian mind is the prerequisite of Christian thinking. And Christian thinking is the prerequisite of Christian action." - Harry Blamires, 1963

Posts 5253
Dan Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Feb 5 2015 9:49 PM

abondservant:
I now declare my self the arbiter of theological lines.

Cool someone in charge, do you have any kool aid I could have??? heheheh But seriously I do think it was a question not of theological lines but of maybe is this ad in line with a Christian company? It seemed like a valid question and a reminder to be judicious with our resources God has provided. As I said above I didn't think it really crossed a line but I am glad Abram started the thread to give people and FL a chance to evaluate the advertisement. I do not think he attacked FL but did well to express his unease over the AD. This is valuable to FL because if he feels this way, many others might also feel this way and the last thing FL wanted to do is offend customers. But seriously I am thirsty where is my Kool Aid????

Stick out tongue

-Dan

Posts 18763
Rosie Perera | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Feb 5 2015 9:52 PM

Dan Francis:
But seriously I am thirsty where is my Kool Aid????

Posts 5
Brian Schmucker | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Feb 6 2015 1:17 PM

For those who use the phrase 'Its a business', please read this.  

I actually found this thread because I just did a search to see if anybody else had issues with the Marketing of Logos.  I've contacted Logos before and did get a good response.  However, after feeling like a piece of meat once again on the phone a few minutes ago,  I'm just disappointed because I love the software and use it daily.

Yes Logos has tons of overhead.  So does Chick-Filet. I wish we had more up North here. They give an entirely different feel to their business when you interact with them.  They make Jesus look good in so many ways.  They even close on Sundays but I think they're still doing fine.  Whether you sell 'Bible Software' or not, every Christian (business or not) is required to 'Do everything as if you're doing it for the Lord and not for man' regardless of where you are or what you are doing.  Logos and every other company can either trust God with their corporate finances / overhead and go about serving people the way He says to, OR go ahead and do what everyone else does and appear aggressive in order to make the numbers work and keep it all afloat.   Whether you sell for Sears or sell Bibles, you're a Christian so it doesn't matter.  Please operate your business by FAITH in following what the ONE MAIN book in our library says.  It's not hard to know what that is.  Its a simple decision upfront to trust God with the balance sheet like every Pastor, business and homeowner has to do.  Hard to do, yes.  I feel for Bob and all the leadership at Logos because the burden has to be difficult to bear.  But we bear His name especially when its in the corporate title.  Thats my burden on all of this.  Get the name of Jesus out there and make Him look good so that Souls can be saved ... however much time is left.

Page 4 of 5 (96 items) < Previous 1 2 3 4 5 Next > | RSS