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This post has 297 Replies | 18 Followers

Posts 1811
LogosEmployee
Phil Gons (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Apr 6 2015 8:21 PM

Mark Davis:
So maybe Now should be marked more as an incredible new web app. that can do much of what your desktop software can do with access to your entire Logos library instead (with a bonus of all the cool new functionality and resources).  Pitch that and I think there may be more bites.  Faithlife already gives so much awesome stuff with the desktop version that I would have no problem seeing them want to charge for a web app that can do most of what my desktop app can do and I would be happy to pay for it (both to have the functionality and to see Faithlife have a more consistent revenue stream).

I think we're going to have to present it differently to different users. As you can already see, some are really drawn to things others don't care about. I'm glad you're excited about the web app. I am too. I'm growing increasingly tired of desktop software, the risk of data loss with failing drives, the pain of Windows profiles becoming corrupted and requiring a format and clean install (my latest problem this past weekend!), etc., etc. I'm ready to go all in with the cloud for file storage and app usage. Logos is one of my few remaining apps that keeps me locked to a traditional computer. I'm really close to buying a Chromebook or Chromebox, and having Logos as a web app makes that feasible.

Posts 26277
Forum MVP
MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Apr 6 2015 8:21 PM

John Goodman:

I stand by my comments,

I assure you that the uproar at the added option in the beta forum was far more fractious than the response here - probably because of the average investment amount of the testers. However, in the to-and-fro of between Faithlife and the beta testers, most of us were convinced that it was a useful option that wouldn't make us feel shafted. I think the first real test will be when L7 is released ... how Faithlife insures that both the Logos Now and the purchaser only people feel that they received equal value for their money.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 1751
Nathan Parker | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Apr 6 2015 8:22 PM

Two things that would be interesting to see in Logos Now (or a similar subscription service, even if it meant a slightly higher price):

1. Journal updates. While Logos could still sell the big journal bundles for the archives, it'd be great to be able to subscribe to have all the latest journals appear automatically so I never have to worry about topping off my journal collections.

2. After Noet releases Britannica Noet Edition, being able to subscribe to updates to Britannica, as well as having tons of more articles become available as time goes on, would be handy to always have a state-of-the-art encyclopedia inside Logos/Noet.

Nathan Parker

Visit my blog at http://focusingonthemarkministries.com

Posts 1751
Nathan Parker | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Apr 6 2015 8:23 PM

I also told Bob I'd send him some feedback on subscriptions, and I still plan to do that when I have a free moment. Actually Logos Now is quite low cost compared to what I was going to tell him I was interested in paying. :-)

Nathan Parker

Visit my blog at http://focusingonthemarkministries.com

Posts 1811
LogosEmployee
Phil Gons (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Apr 6 2015 8:37 PM

Beloved:

I know the mantra of the day is "to be or not to be." But let's just say "be" is a given. My question is with all this new functionality is there a "value" oriented affordable way of receiving training to accommodate these features.

The current high priced method needs to change imho. And the release pace needs to match the release pace of the new features. 

We plan to create free training videos and documentation and release them with each new release. Here are some short overview videos for the new Logos Now features, in case you missed them:

  1. Old Testament Propositional Bible Outlines Dataset
  2. Greek Grammatical Constructions Dataset
  3. Commandments of the Law Interactive
  4. Concordance
  5. Media Browser

We plan to do more videos giving more examples of how to use these new tools and datasets.

Posts 1811
LogosEmployee
Phil Gons (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Apr 6 2015 8:42 PM

Donnie Hale:
If I purchase a Logos Now subscription and want to use one of the subscription-only features, can I do so if I am not on the internet and/or my internet connection is down? Correspondingly do those features require internet connectivity for licensing (every time they're used), for actual functionality (i.e. the function resides in the cloud), or both?

It's easy to conflate subscription with web/online access, but it's important to keep them distinct. As I've explained to folks internally, Logos Now requires internet access in much the same ways as Logos 6 does. Some things work offline; others don't. There's nothing unique about Logos Now that makes it more dependent on an internet connection, and that dependency has nothing to do with the fact that it's a subscription and not a purchase/own model.

Posts 602
Bill Anderson | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Apr 6 2015 8:43 PM

Phil Gons:

I'm growing increasingly tired of desktop software, the risk of data loss with failing drives, the pain of Windows profiles becoming corrupted and requiring a format and clean install (my latest problem this past weekend!), etc., etc. I'm ready to go all in with the cloud for file storage and app usage. Logos is one of my few remaining apps that keeps me locked to a traditional computer. I'm really close to buying a Chromebook or Chromebox, and having Logos as a web app makes that feasible.

Me, too, except I bit the bullet and have a Chromebook Pixel 2 on the way.

Posts 1811
LogosEmployee
Phil Gons (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Apr 6 2015 8:52 PM

Randy W. Sims:
What's the difference between Logos Now & Verbum Now? Will they diverge?

Very little now, expect for access to app.verbum.com instead of app.logos.com. They will diverge more in the future.

Randy W. Sims:
How does the release of any new software features interact with the open betas?

We're doing private betas for new Logos Now releases. There may be opportunity for others to participate.

Randy W. Sims:
I'm still not clear on the path to ownership for those datasets that are not online only...

Ownership will be available in the future as part new base packages and crossgrades. Some items will likely be held back for Now (likely, things that are open-ended and ever-growing), but the bulk of things should be ownable at some point.

Posts 1811
LogosEmployee
Phil Gons (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Apr 6 2015 8:54 PM

Bill Anderson:

Phil Gons:

I'm growing increasingly tired of desktop software, the risk of data loss with failing drives, the pain of Windows profiles becoming corrupted and requiring a format and clean install (my latest problem this past weekend!), etc., etc. I'm ready to go all in with the cloud for file storage and app usage. Logos is one of my few remaining apps that keeps me locked to a traditional computer. I'm really close to buying a Chromebook or Chromebox, and having Logos as a web app makes that feasible.

Me, too, except I bit the bullet and have a Chromebook Pixel 2 on the way.

Nice! Please let me know how you like it (phil@faithlife.com or philgons@gmail.com). I've been really close several times. :)

Posts 1393
James Taylor | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Apr 6 2015 8:56 PM

Phil Gons:
And I'm happy to report that we have some pretty cool things in the works for future releases that'll be right up your alley. In particular, there's a new guide section aimed at drawing out the riches of your systematics library.

YES! Yes That will be great!

Logos 8  | Dell Inspiron 7373 | Windows 10 Pro 64, i7, 16GB, SSD | iPhone X | iMac 27" i7, 16GB, SSD | OS 10.13

Posts 98
Dan | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Apr 6 2015 8:59 PM

I see you have a Verbum Now as well.

It doesn't say the first month is free like Logos Now does. Is that just an oversight or do Verbum users have to pay for the first month?

Never mind! I can't read!

Posts 1811
LogosEmployee
Phil Gons (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Apr 6 2015 9:14 PM

John Goodman:
I totally don't understand this. So far I always thought that I was paying for content not apps. I've been really keen to see more of the logos features available online - call it a website or a web app I'm not sure why it is free to download and use an iPad app or the desktop app but $8.99 a month to get the same online.

That's generally still the case. There have been a few exceptions:

  1. The first version of the Mac engine was $59.95. The second version was free.
  2. The iOS apps intially required a Logos 4 base package in order to access your library there. We lifted that restriction a year or two later.
  3. We're currently using Community Pricing to fund development of a Windows Universal app. Once we release it, it'll be free.
  4. We're charging for early access to new features with Logos Now.

We're not sure if we'll keep the Logos web app locked to subscribers forever, but for now we need to in order to fund it and accelerate development.

Posts 7983
LogosEmployee

James Taylor:

Phil Gons:
there's a new guide section aimed at drawing out the riches of your systematics library.

YES! Yes That will be great!

Just to be clear (for others reading this thread, because some context was lost in quoting), this is not a current feature of Logos 6.2 or Logos Now, but is something we plan to implement and would like to deliver in the future.

Posts 1811
LogosEmployee
Phil Gons (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Apr 6 2015 9:21 PM

Bradley Grainger (Faithlife):

James Taylor:

Phil Gons:
there's a new guide section aimed at drawing out the riches of your systematics library.

YES! Yes That will be great!

Just to be clear (for others reading this thread, because some context was lost in quoting), this is not a current feature of Logos 6.2 or Logos Now, but is something we plan to implement and would like to deliver in the future.

I edited the post that quoted me and added a little more context.

Posts 1825
mike | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Apr 6 2015 9:30 PM

For $8.99/month that's a lot of money for small contents I'm getting.

Too expensive for offers that's so small that we have already. Not very entertaining I would say.

For Logos' MVPs and believers.. yes, they'll buy everything blindly, because they hang out here everyday. But for NORMAL people.. NO.

We already have regular Logos program, when the heck do we use Logos Now? I guess when we don't have our normal computer. But to justify $8.99 isn't enough for the content they're offering.

$3.99 .. maybe. But not $8.99.

Lucky Logos don't have a competition, soon, just like streaming music industry, everyone will price their product accordingly.

Right now, Logos is gouging the price because there no competition.. (with less contents).

.

(I smell so many Logos' cheerleaders), For regular peeps, just be careful with what you read here as a regular joe person, don't get carried away.

*sorry for my negativity.

Posts 1811
LogosEmployee
Phil Gons (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Apr 6 2015 9:37 PM

SHotchkiss:
Why isn't the Concordance a part of the Logos package I have already paid thousands for?

We typically hold back brand new features for the next major version. In a world without Logos Now, Concordance would sit and wait until Logos 7. Most of what we typically release in the .x releases are updates, improvements, optimizations, bug fixes, etc. (This was different with Logos 4 and Logos 5 where we were still delivering Libronix functionality that we'd promised to bring back. We've fulfilled that promise, so even before Now we weren't planning to add new features to the 6.x releases.)

SHotchkiss:
Why would Old Testament Propositional Outlines only be available with the online version? Could they not have been made to work with the client version? Enticements or inducements to spend more money?

I addressed that earlier in the thread. (And just for clarification, Logos Now isn't an "online version." I provide some clarification on that in an earlier post.)

SHotchkiss:
I really do not get it. Do I still need al my pre-pub orders like Encyclopedia Britannica Noet Edition or will they all be on Now? How about community price deals?

Logos Now is intentionally not a library of books. For now, you shouldn't expect to see us adding books to it. Our perception of current customers is that they're passionate about owning their books. Our hope is that they may be able to find room for subscribing to the content and tools that power the core functionality of the software.

SHotchkiss:
I just paid 100 or for video training to teach me what is new in Logos 6. Ooops. So I got to do that again if Now is a whole new stronger library. And those printed books. Nothing in the index about this.

We plan to offer free training videos and documentation on Now features. You shouldn't need paid training to benefit from them. More on training in an earlier post.

I think you're misunderstanding the "stronger library" statement on the Now landing page, which I admit is potentially confusing. The point they're trying to make there is that Logos Now makes your existing library stronger by supplementing it with new tools and content. I'll see if we can make that point a little more clearly.

Posts 2062
Forum MVP
Randy W. Sims | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Apr 6 2015 9:40 PM

alabama24:
This is really more of a subscription... I tend to buck against "rentals," but I love Amazon Prime and Netflix!

I think it would have been a nicer spin if they had called it a membership instead of rental...

Become a member of the exclusive Logos Now family today and get advance access to new features as they are being developed. Get exclusive use of new tools and datasets that others won't see for months or year to come, until the next official release of Logos Bible Software. Join us today, add your feedback, and become a member of the exclusive team that shapes the next version of Logos. And for an extra $1.99 a month get on the cutting edge with access to nightly builds! It's all yours if you act right now! Hurry before this limited time membership expires! Live the future of Logos NOW!!!

Posts 24847
Forum MVP
Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Apr 6 2015 9:43 PM

SHotchkiss:
If the propositional outlines of the Old Testament are included in my Logos 6 download version..

It is exclusive to Logos Now and will be included in your desktop download only if you subscribe.

SHotchkiss:
Why isn't the Concordance a pat of the Logos package I have already paid thousands for? Why would Old Testament Propositional Outlines only be available with the online version? Could they not have been made to work with the client version?

I'll confirm that they both work only with the client/desktop version. Concordance is a feature that you may not otherwise have seen until Logos 7 is delivered in 2 -3 years. Logos Now is about getting these new features Now!

Dave
===

Windows & Android

Posts 2062
Forum MVP
Randy W. Sims | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Apr 6 2015 9:44 PM

Thank you Bruce, Mark, Phil, and others, for helping to clarify some of the questions I've had. I think I'm in now. I think the only small issue I have remaining is:

Phil Gons:

Randy W. Sims:
What's the difference between Logos Now & Verbum Now? Will they diverge?

Very little now, expect for access to app.verbum.com instead of app.logos.com. They will diverge more in the future.

Will there be a package that covers both options? An all access pass for a bit more, $11.99 or $12.99 that includes access to Logos/Verbum/Noet NOW?

Posts 1811
LogosEmployee
Phil Gons (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Apr 6 2015 9:51 PM

Randy W. Sims:
Will there be a package that covers both options? An all access pass for a bit more, $11.99 or $12.99 that includes access to Logos/Verbum/Noet NOW?

We've already given some thought to this, particularly for bilingual users who may want English and German, for example. But the same applies to Logos and Verbum (and Noet). We don't have a solution yet, but we'll definitely keep it in mind as the desire for multiple subscriptions because more likely. Right now, there's nothing to gain by subscribing to both.

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