A plea for better notetaking within L4

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This post has 70 Replies | 4 Followers

Posts 323
Doug | Forum Activity | Posted: Mon, Jan 25 2010 8:00 AM

First, let me say that the more I use L4, the more genuinely impressed I am with it.  This is by far the greatest piece of Bible Study software to ever hit the market.  That being said, I do want to state my opinion that the one major lack for a lot of L4 users is notes.  I know this issue has been addressed in the past but it seems to me that one of the reasons that Logos hosts these forums is to get feedback from its users. 

Logos offers Bible students access to some of the best resources on the planet.  A wealth of knowledge can be accessed by it and the assistance we receive by using L4 is invaluable to many of us.  However, one resource that I think Logos has overlooked is the resource that I the user create as a result of my hours of study with L4.  My note files respresent hours of my time, the synthesis of my research, the fruit of my stuy labor and as such, these files are very important to me.  Why would the best Bibly study software on the planet not offer the best note-taking system in the world?  Who needs to be better equiped to keep notes and keep them organized than students of the Word of God? 

We can use products like OneNote or EverNote but these products are not incorporated with our other resources in L4.  They are not searchable from within L4.  So, they are less desirable to many of us than a good note taking system within L4. 

We would like the ability within L4 to organize and reorganize our notes, to add styles such as bold, italic . . .etc, to add tables, charts, graphics that help us emphasize our points, and to have a great way to organize the files, link the files to resources and resources to the files, and retrieve and search the files. 

To show that I'm not alone in this, I am attaching a link to a thread where this topic is currently being discussed.  That link is http://community.logos.com/forums/t/5503.aspx?PageIndex=1.  There are many other links where notes are being discussed as well.  Please consider this plea.  Please give us the ability to treat our own resources as though they are as valuable as the other resources we use.  Thank you.

Posts 65
J. Bryant Evans | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 25 2010 2:54 PM

I'm adding my voice here. Please at least let us know what is going on. And I hope for something better than "we're working on it." We need this functionality.

Posts 225
Michael Birney | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 25 2010 3:43 PM

I'm adding my vote here also, not because I need it now, but when it shows up much improved, I'd really like to stop using onenote for sermon prep, and journaling, and bible study, and move that all to notes in L4.  I hope it has all of those capabilities!    

Posts 4625
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Milford Charles Murray | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 25 2010 4:47 PM

I concur.  I think Logos 3 note taking is better than Logos 4 right now.  Am still analysing, but that's where my mind is at the moment.

          I wonder if anyone is using the "clipping" feature to take the place of notes.  Just tried this, and it seems to have possibilities ............

Yours in Christ,

.................     Mel

Philippians 4:  4 Rejoice in the Lord always; again I will say, Rejoice. 5 Let your reasonableness be known to everyone. The Lord is at hand..........

Posts 456
Pastor Roger | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 25 2010 6:19 PM

I agree.  I love Logos, but I really need a powerful and robust note tool.

Elder/Pastor, Hope Now Bible Church, Fresno CA

Posts 596
LaRosa Johnson | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 25 2010 6:25 PM

Michael Birney:

I'd really like to stop using onenote for sermon prep, and journaling, and bible study, and move that all to notes in L4.

Amen & amen! Yes

Urban Scholar - http://urban-scholar.com 
Christ-centered Hip-Hop - http://www.sphereofhiphop.com

Posts 3767
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Friedrich | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 25 2010 6:45 PM

I think this will require a major paradigm shift at the top of Logos.  I have not picked up that they see robust note taking (and I assume the cost associated with making such a tool happen, and what it might do to our current price structure . . .) as desirable.  There are already other programs out there for note taking.

but I would like robust Logos notes.  I am kind of half in, half out.  Sometimes i take notes in Logos, sometimes in OneNote.  But it leaves me feeling a bit wishy washy about my time spent in Logos.  Can't get a good groove on.  With a robust note taking application in L4, my groove would be Paris-Dakar non stop, baby!

I like Apples.  Especially Honeycrisp.

Posts 2922
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Jacob Hantla | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 25 2010 7:17 PM

I agree totally. Fixing up notes has always been a need. I was disappointed how the complete rewrite of the app didn't really improve notes (other than syncing). I appreciate clippings, but again insufficient. 

I think that robust notes should be a way higher priority than handouts or reading lists. 

I hope that we see that tackled as a real area for improvement that will affect nearly every user of Logos.

Jacob Hantla
Pastor/Elder, Grace Bible Church
gbcaz.org

Posts 456
Pastor Roger | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jan 26 2010 5:42 AM

Dan DeVilder:
but I would like robust Logos notes. 

One of the best note tools I've seen in a program is found on the free e-sword software.  While e-sword doesn't compare to Logos, the note aspect that the developer created is superb. For me, if Logos had something like that, they would be untouchable.

Elder/Pastor, Hope Now Bible Church, Fresno CA

Posts 1674
Paul Golder | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jan 26 2010 6:09 AM

Dan DeVilder:
But it leaves me feeling a bit wishy washy about my time spent in Logos.

I would have definitely agree. The lack of a comprehensive note taking system, (that includes the most used features of a word processor), is 90% of the reason L4 is not my "go-to" program.

I can't even imagine the great things I could accomplish with the software, if only this area were to be brought up to industry standards...

 

"As any translator will attest, a literal translation is no translation at all."

Posts 569
J. Morris | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jan 26 2010 6:22 AM

Yes

- I think it fairly inevitable that we will get some kind of enhanced note functionality. (Faithful Hope)+(Granted, I'd sure like to hear some official word)

-However, with all the work being done on delivering the expected upgrades/updates, I'm afraid Notes are probably going to be added to the back of the line.

-While I believe notes are more important than many (if not most) of the scheduled 'things to come' I don't think Logos will be willing to adjust that schedule because of the 'slack' they would get for moving those expected things around.

Posts 1674
Paul Golder | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jan 26 2010 6:28 AM

Jeremiah Daniel Morris:
(Faithful Hope)+(Granted, I'd sure like to hear some official word)

I'm afraid that there has been an official word:

" Logos has not wanted to build all the functions of a word processor, of which there are many good ones, into the Notes function."

"As any translator will attest, a literal translation is no translation at all."

Posts 255
Pat Flanakin | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jan 26 2010 6:33 AM

Seems Logos prioritizes the ability to search (thus the need for indexing) over anything else.  Perhaps when developing Logos and interviewing pastors and others for how they study, they all would rather have good searching over notes since if you cannot find the source and what you need in the source, there would be a lot less need for notes.  With finite time and finite resources, they prioritized this over notes.

It is likely you will not get notes in the form you are speaking of in e-sword, or any other, for the balance of Christ's return.  Mr. Pritchett is welcome to counter this.

Posts 225
Michael Birney | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jan 26 2010 7:16 AM

I am not asking for a wood processor, I want a usable note taking application.  The whole point of notes and clippings is that our study and personal notes then become searchable within L4.  They way they are, they are not really usable to do study or journaling in a satisfactory manner.

If they have decided to just ignore notes, and stick with what they have, then just say so.  I can disagree with them, but I would understand it from a business standpoint.  And I think at that point, we could start to explore as a group some note taking options that would work, and ask for a few new options, like a cut and paste that included not only the text, but the hyper link to that text (that would be so cool for onenote).  Even better a right click "send to onenote" that included the hyperlink. 

I guess I'd really just like to know if real note improvement is in the works or if it is just not going to happen.  

Posts 569
J. Morris | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jan 26 2010 7:20 AM

Paul Golder:
I'm afraid that there has been an official word:

Yes, but that was back in November, there has been considerable 'uproar' since then.  I say inevitable because, Logos does a good job of listening to its customers and responding to their requests, especially if those request are numerous and consistent. 

-The desire of the 'masses' to have improved note function IS NOT going to go away and will only continue to rise.

Posts 200
Dudley C Rose | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jan 26 2010 7:24 AM

I, too, would much appreciate better notes.  I don't need a wordprocessor within Logos.  I do need notes that are easily categorized, ordered and hyperlinked to Logos and web resources.

Dudley

Posts 9946
George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jan 26 2010 7:38 AM

Pat Flanakin:

Seems Logos prioritizes the ability to search (thus the need for indexing) over anything else.  Perhaps when developing Logos and interviewing pastors and others for how they study, they all would rather have good searching over notes since if you cannot find the source and what you need in the source, there would be a lot less need for notes.  With finite time and finite resources, they prioritized this over notes.

It is likely you will not get notes in the form you are speaking of in e-sword, or any other, for the balance of Christ's return.  Mr. Pritchett is welcome to counter this.

I am thoroughly dissatisfied with the searching ability of L4.  It doesn't search my notes.  Of course, my notes are all in L3 since the current incarnation of notes in L4 is totally useless to me.

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

Posts 4625
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Milford Charles Murray | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jan 26 2010 7:43 AM

Michael Birney:

I am not asking for a wood processor, I want a usable note taking application.  The whole point of notes and clippings is that our study and personal notes then become searchable within L4.  They way they are, they are not really usable to do study or journaling in a satisfactory manner.

If they have decided to just ignore notes, and stick with what they have, then just say so.  I can disagree with them, but I would understand it from a business standpoint.  And I think at that point, we could start to explore as a group some note taking options that would work, and ask for a few new options, like a cut and paste that included not only the text, but the hyper link to that text (that would be so cool for onenote).  Even better a right click "send to onenote" that included the hyperlink. 

I guess I'd really just like to know if real note improvement is in the works or if it is just not going to happen.  

Logos would be fulfilling all my desires with a right click "send to onenote" that included the hyperlink!  Thanks for posting!

Philippians 4:  4 Rejoice in the Lord always; again I will say, Rejoice. 5 Let your reasonableness be known to everyone. The Lord is at hand..........

Posts 9946
George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jan 26 2010 7:45 AM

Dudley C. Rose:

I, too, would much appreciate better notes.  I don't need a wordprocessor within Logos.  I do need notes that are easily categorized, ordered and hyperlinked to Logos and web resources.

Dudley

While I basically am satisfied with the notes in L3 there are two modifications which I desire.  The first, stability of the fonts, may already have been achieved though I am uncertain regarding this since I don't use L4 for my notes but revert to L3 due to L4's deficiency with regard to including the ability already included in L3 to link to resources from within the body of the note.  The second modification is the ability to search notes which I understand is already implemented, but again I am not certain of this since I won't use notes in L4 until they include the ability to link to other resources within the body of the note.

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

Anonymous | | Replied: Tue, Jan 26 2010 7:55 AM

The problem appears to me that Bob only sees notes as a way to attach short annotations a la a study bible to a passage (he has said so on many occusions).  He does not appear to see them as a way to collect, collate, and analyze data.  I've given up any hope of getting a powerful note taking facility in Logos.  Instead, what I want is better integration with existing apps, such as OneNote.

The three most needed features we need to use OneNote effectively are (in this order)

1) Make Copy and Paste preserve formatting.  Right now when you copy and paste text into OneNote, all formatting, even the font, is lost.  This makes the pasted text virtually unreadable, especially if it contains Greek or Hebrew text.  Pasting into Word works a little better, although formatting does get damaged, but not entirely lost, in the process.

2) Make the citation appended to the end of the copy and pasted text be a hyperlink back to location of the copy.

3) Perserve hyperlinks in the copy and pasted text.

These would make using OneNote for Bible study integrate so much more smoothly.

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