Do you want every ebook in the world in Logos?

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Lynden Williams | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 19 2015 3:54 AM

My two cents:

1. Separate store.

2. Allow the user to select genre when searching and other categories when searching the store and seeing what is displayed on the store front.

3. The store remembers my preferences.

4. Allow me to choose what is downloaded in Logos and what is downloaded in the other app for all the other stuff.

5. I am hoping this option if you go this way, helps lower the cost of Logos books.

6. The quality of Logos books do not suffer.

7. New books from the "fire hydrant" are released on pre-pub for a short time and then published, probably without all the tagging of a Logos resource (too expensive).

Had to Google to find out what 50 shades of Gray is.

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Bruce Dunning | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 19 2015 3:58 AM

Reuben Helmuth:

Bob Pritchett:
What do we do with a publisher's catalog that includes everything from academic biography to erotic fiction? The same massive publisher that has Timothy Keller's Reason for God also publishes 50 Shades of Grey.

Wow! Tough call...

Avoiding my knee-jerk reaction of "stay away!", I would most like to see a separate store with rigorous filtering/sorting abilities. The homepage could make in very clear that this is a GENERAL bookstore and that Faithlife does NOT endorse all the books available. It would be nice if that store could remember my preferences to filter out all genreX, authorX, keywordX, and ect.X content.

This is a tough call but I like your approach to this Reuben. This decision is huge and comes with the potential of many potential benefits and pitfalls.

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Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 19 2015 4:03 AM

Lynden Williams:
Had to Google to find out what 50 shades of Gray is.

Same for me, I bet you were sorry you found out. Nevertheless, it is a telling example of content one would want to avoid.

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Robert Townsend | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 19 2015 4:47 AM

Would it or could it still be called Logos Bible Software?

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Jack Caviness | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 19 2015 4:51 AM

Reuben Helmuth:
Avoiding my knee-jerk reaction of "stay away!", I would most like to see a separate store with rigorous filtering/sorting abilities. The homepage could make in very clear that this is a GENERAL bookstore and that Faithlife does NOT endorse all the books available. It would be nice if that store could remember my preferences to filter out all genreX, authorX, keywordX, and ect.X content.

If you go this way, this would be my preference. However, I can't help but ask, "Would you be inviting the camel to stick his nose into the tent?"

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David Taylor Jr | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 19 2015 5:02 AM

I'll give a more thought out answer later but all the ebooks? No. I don't think we need Charlie and the Chocolate Factory etc... in Logos.  However, I am all for expanding the Non-Fiction works, especially in the Theological realm. 

I would like to see Logos start a campaign to go to colleges and universities to find what their textbook lists are and start actively obtaining those resources as a priority.

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NB.Mick | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 19 2015 5:43 AM

David Taylor Jr:
I'll give a more thought out answer later but all the ebooks? No. I don't think we need Charlie and the Chocolate Factory etc... in Logos.

While even in this example some might want to differ, you should read Bob's post beyond the title.

But you picked a good example. Let's assume Faithlife discussed with Multnomah ( https://www.logos.com/products/search?Publisher=Multnomah - gives some well-known John Piper books ) about a contract renewal or enhancement. Now they say: "we want to go beyond managing single books or imprints to a group level. You can have Multnomah stuff in a contract for all our electronically published books, but only if you put all of them into the shop (and "our" is everything from Penguin Random House group)". This will bring lots of stuff in, but it also lets customers buy Dahl's Charlie.... since Puffin Books also belongs to the Penguin Random House group.

It's a win for Faithlife and for us, since we now can have books that were previously unavailable (possibly including Langenscheidt's dictionaries), and continue to have books available, since they don't do the Moody on us. And it's a win for Penguin Random House since you may be inclined to buy Charlie and the Chocolate Factory nevertheless when you see it in the store (or buy it here instead of on a large book retailer).  

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David Taylor Jr | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 19 2015 5:59 AM

NB.Mick:

David Taylor Jr:
I'll give a more thought out answer later but all the ebooks? No. I don't think we need Charlie and the Chocolate Factory etc... in Logos.

While even in this example some might want to differ, you should read Bob's post beyond the title.

But you picked a good example. Let's assume Faithlife discussed with Multnomah ( https://www.logos.com/products/search?Publisher=Multnomah - gives some well-known John Piper books ) about a contract renewal or enhancement. Now they say: "we want to go beyond managing single books or imprints to a group level. You can have Multnomah stuff in a contract for all our electronically published books, but only if you put all of them into the shop (and "our" is everything from Penguin Random House group)". This will bring lots of stuff in, but it also lets customers buy Dahl's Charlie.... since Puffin Books also belongs to the Penguin Random House group.

It's a win for Faithlife and for us, since we now can have books that were previously unavailable (possibly including Langenscheidt's dictionaries), and continue to have books available, since they don't do the Moody on us. And it's a win for Penguin Random House since you may be inclined to buy Charlie and the Chocolate Factory nevertheless when you see it in the store (or buy it here instead of on a large book retailer).  

This is a good point.  I do think it would bloat an already not so easy to navigate store. Perhaps the two storefront option? Or better organization of current selections in preparation? I don't know. 

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HJ. van der Wal | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 19 2015 6:02 AM

Yes, although insofar as publishers are willing to let you opt out of morally offensive works, I would hope you would continue avoiding them. But I would certainly prefer having the entire Amazon universe available on the platform to not having it.

Yes

Francis:

Same for me, I bet you were sorry you found out. Nevertheless, it is a telling example of content one would want to avoid.

Sadly, in the area where I live this book is being sold just about everywhere. There even is a supermarket (just across the border in Germany) that has this book on display right next to children's storybooks. Sad

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David Taylor Jr | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 19 2015 6:02 AM

With the example of the erotic fiction I would say has no place in logos.com. I will say if that ever made its way into the store I would cease using Logos on moral grounds.  If that is a publisher's stance, I would say leave it on the table and walk away.

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Kevin Maples | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 19 2015 6:02 AM

Bob Pritchett:
If we could offer every ebook Amazon offers, but only if we did offer every ebook Amazon offers, should we? And if so, how?
I believe the benefits of offering every book outweighs the negative of having to offer bad books. Here's how I would do it:

1. The resources need to be in a separate store. There's nothing wrong with selling books like Reason for God in Logos, Vyrso, and the separate store, but I wouldn't want to see 50 Shades of Grey in Vyrso or Logos and Noet's target audience wouldn't want to see it either. It should be fairly simple to duplicate the Vyrso platform with new name and graphics. 

2. Although you will have to offer and sale 50 Shades of Grey, you do not have to promote it. So I would keep all promotions focused on clean books (I know that's subjective). I would be disappointed to see 50 Shades of Grey on a Freebie Friday promotion or on a front page banner. 

3. I would create a robust sorting and searching engine. Make sure the books are correctly categorized down to the sub-genre, like Amazon, so that it's easy to find what you are looking for and avoid what you are not.  

BTW: I would never buy a book from Amazon that was available from FL. So I hope to see you incorporate everything. 

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Bruce Roth | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 19 2015 6:04 AM

Bob,

I appreciate the continuing thoughts that you folks have about expanding the business model and how in most ways this is a benefit to most of us users. I think that a corporation that has a primary focus on providing Christian resources to it's user base is always challenged to see how it can grow it's customer base. I experienced this growing up with a father who owned a Christian bookstore but couldn't survive just selling Bibles and Christian books. One had to expand to other product lines such as gifts and such to make it work.

As to the 'all or nothing' from the publishers, this is a difficult one to come up with a good conclusion. Some thoughts.

1. Do the publishers force you to have their entire inventory that they have available in e-book format to be made available on your platform? Or can you choose? Sounds like not. I can see where they would relish another distribution platform outside of primarily Amazon or Nook.

2. How should a Christian business owner handle selling of materials that are contrary to their Biblical beliefs? For example if you own a drugstore in a small town that is also the source of magazines do you not sell certain magazines that are contrary to Biblical principles. I was once aware of a Christian store that did sell Playboy magazines along with the other magazines and was questioned about whether they should do that. I think this gets harder as the society tends to become more secular.

3. How would taking on all these new streams of resources impact the focus and efforts that are applied to the core business of supplying Biblical study resource material? Could something like this overtake the primary focus? I have heard that the sale of books which was the initial focus of Amazon now accounts for less than 10% of Amazon sales.

4. I would think it would be important to allow users to isolate books from each of the platforms if they desired. I might have 500 Kindle books that if I had bought them in Logos, I might want most of them kept distinct from my Logos library. Currently any Noet or Vyrso resource shows up in Logos.

5. A challenge that you currently have is that publishers or Amazon promote Kindle books at reduced prices that do not always migrate over to Faithlife. It is a challenge to think of; do I buy the Kindle book at $3.99 vs a higher price (usually) in the Logos platform. I understand the added value and cost for that option.

6. I am one who likes to have the greatest options available to me so I would like to have books available in Logos that I don't have now. But where do you draw the line as a focused business as to what you sell and promote? How big of a fence do you put up around your business? One could say that there are resources that you currently have that should not be part of your offerings. How narrow should we be as Christians in the business world? I don't see this getting any easier.

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James C. | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 19 2015 6:04 AM

Yes, every book, just make a new store.

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Glenn Crouch | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 19 2015 6:14 AM

I agree with Kendall's reply Yes

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David Taylor Jr | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 19 2015 6:20 AM

Kevin Maples:

Bob Pritchett:
If we could offer every ebook Amazon offers, but only if we did offer every ebook Amazon offers, should we? And if so, how?
I believe the benefits of offering every book outweighs the negative of having to offer bad books. Here's how I would do it:

1. The resources need to be in a separate store. There's nothing wrong with selling books like Reason for God in Logos, Vyrso, and the separate store, but I wouldn't want to see 50 Shades of Grey in Vyrso or Logos and Noet's target audience wouldn't want to see it either. It should be fairly simple to duplicate the Vyrso platform with new name and graphics. 

2. Although you will have to offer and sale 50 Shades of Grey, you do not have to promote it. So I would keep all promotions focused on clean books (I know that's subjective). I would be disappointed to see 50 Shades of Grey on a Freebie Friday promotion or on a front page banner. 

3. I would create a robust sorting and searching engine. Make sure the books are correctly categorized down to the sub-genre, like Amazon, so that it's easy to find what you are looking for and avoid what you are not.  

BTW: I would never buy a book from Amazon that was available from FL. So I hope to see you incorporate everything. 

 Yes

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Randy W. Sims | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 19 2015 6:23 AM

Definitely would like to see this.

I prefer a separate store, although I would like to see academic books in NOET, anything touching on Christianity in Logos/Verbum/Vyrso. Possibly tag books to indicate which store they are sold from.

The general store, I would prefer to be family friendly, something even non-christians should appreciate. If you can't ban unfriendly books, demand that publishers rate their books for family-friendliness. Then allow users to set the level of family-friendliness as a permanent user preference. 

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Joseph Turner | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 19 2015 6:30 AM

I also agree that it would be a good idea as long as there is a separate store.  

It would also be cool if each resource had a check button, similar to the mobile device download check boxes, that would allow it to show up in Logos/Vyrso/Noet/New System/etc...  That way, I could check each or all of the programs in which the resource will show.  You could start this with each new resource, and do older resources as necessary.  I don't know how much extra work this would entail, but it would certainly be helpful to keep books in whichever program I want them choose.

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David Taylor Jr | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 19 2015 6:34 AM

Randy W. Sims:

Definitely would like to see this.

I prefer a separate store, although I would like to see academic books in NOET, anything touching on Christianity in Logos/Verbum/Vyrso. Possibly tag books to indicate which store they are sold from.

The general store, I would prefer to be family friendly, something even non-christians should appreciate. If you can't ban unfriendly books, demand that publishers rate their books for family-friendliness. Then allow users to set the level of family-friendliness as a permanent user preference. 

Almost like a parental control filter? I like that idea.

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Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 19 2015 6:45 AM

One of the storefronts we should call Whitewash Inc. and the second "Full of Dead Men's Bones" Ltd.

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Doc B | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 19 2015 6:46 AM

Bob Pritchett:
If we could offer every ebook Amazon offers, but only if we did offer every ebook Amazon offers, should we?

I'll try not to become too verbose in my reply-

NO!!!!

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