Do you want every ebook in the world in Logos?

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This post has 394 Replies | 12 Followers

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David Taylor Jr | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 19 2015 6:53 AM

Doc B:

Bob Pritchett:
If we could offer every ebook Amazon offers, but only if we did offer every ebook Amazon offers, should we?

I'll try not to become too verbose in my reply-

NO!!!!

This is still my overall response.

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Kevin A Lewis | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 19 2015 7:00 AM

Doc B:

NO!!!!

I've been watching this debate grow for a few hours now - I didn't want to just answer out of "knee jerk" style.

However I think I am with Doc B on this - sometimes principles are just that - things to keep or break. If they are broken - they are broken. Whilst I appreciate the clamour for more titles, more content, more business - sometimes a line has to be drawn.

At the end of the day it is your decision, just bear in mind that it is not us you have to please - but our Father in Heaven. Simple commerce and nothing but are what is getting the western world in such a mess financially. The blessing of God is priceless and in my view has a direct connection (albeit subtle) to our earthly success.

I also appreciate you asking us - you need also to be asking Him - however I do think that you really know the answer.

Shalom.

Posts 989
JohnB | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 19 2015 7:07 AM

Lynden Williams:

1. Separate store.

2. Allow the user to select genre when searching and other categories when searching the store and seeing what is displayed on the store front.

3. The store remembers my preferences.

7. New books from the "fire hydrant" are released on pre-pub for a short time and then published, probably without all the tagging of a Logos resource (too expensive).

Agreed

I would not have to keep buying books from Amazon hoping that Calibre will open them so I can PB them into Logos.

Since I buy books from Amazon now that Logos do not stock why would I not be willing not to buy from a separate FL site to the current ones?

Lynden Williams:
Had to Google to find out what 50 shades of Gray is

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Posts 3691
Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 19 2015 7:13 AM

JohnB:
Since I buy books from Amazon now that Logos do not stock why would I not be willing not to buy from a separate FL site to the current ones?

For the same reason one would not want to see them in the church library even if one could just as much choose not to read them. 

Posts 933
Matthew | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 19 2015 7:18 AM

Without repeating the multiple good suggestions that have been made, my short answer is yes, go for it. One thought that has not been mentioned yet is that Faithlife might want to consider a way to allow customers to perform a "master search" that provides results from all the various affiliated websites. I do not want to have to separately browse to and search 5 websites to find out if Faithlife sells a particular work. The failure to implement such a tool could directly result in lost sales, especially from new customers who may not be familiar with the full spectrum of Faithlife storefronts. It is not a perfect analogy, but Roku makes it possible for users to watch TV/movies from Amazon, Hulu, and many other sources. If a user is looking for a particular title, a single search can be run that shows what all providers offer that title and for how much. Something similar would be nice for Faithlife, even if the company does not expand and create a new site. I would love to search Logos, Verbum, Vyrso, and Noet all at the same time!

Posts 1660
Rick | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 19 2015 7:19 AM

As others have stated, I think that the stores need to be kept separate. I (and I assume many others) use Logos exclusively for Bible study. The last thing that I want to do is go into the Logos store and see a bunch of secular stuff and have to filter through it. I'm sure that with such a large amount of secular resources, some of it would simply be unacceptable for me. I will avoid browsing the store and be happy with what I already have if that becomes reality.

Also, please give us an option to keep the secular stuff off of our Logos home pages.

Peace  Smile

Romans 14:19 (NRSV)
19 Let us then pursue what makes for peace and for mutual upbuilding.

Posts 113
Tanner Thetford | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 19 2015 7:19 AM

Bob,

I am a resounding Yes on this topic. I want Logos to be my one stop shop library.

That said, I want the focus to overwhelmingly remain on biblical studies. If we can do both, that's great.

I like Noet as is, maybe something different for general things. Also, I'd really like to get the Mormon and Jehovah's Witness studies out of pre-pub at some point . . . :)

Posts 468
Charlene | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 19 2015 7:29 AM

NO!

It would be nice to have all your reading and studying material on the same platform, but at what cost? Even if you set it up as another storefront, that doesn't remove your responsibility as a publisher. Are you willing to provide the entrance of a "brother" to obtain, let's say, certain erotica fiction and that would be the very instrument used by him to enter the world of pornography? Or perhaps other books would be offered that would cause a lost individual to go so deep in sin, that his conscience becomes seared and he no longer can respond to the gospel?

Yes, I understand that this is a business "opportunity" but you will still have to give an account of what you do as a businessman before the Lord. And yes, the individual is responsible for what he buys and the choices that he makes, but so is the publisher for making such books available. I would not want that on my conscience to know that I aided and abetted an individual concerning sin "opportunities." I pray that you make the right decision..

Charlene

Posts 221
Jim Erwin | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 19 2015 7:40 AM

I liken this situation to Disney and its choice to start producing R-rated movies under the Touchstone label. This move was controversial at the time. However, it allowed Disney to expand and grow to be the large entertainment company that it is today. Most people don't think about it now. With Disney, they see Marvel, Pixar, and now Lucasfilm films. But it started with Touchstone. 

This is how I see Logos now. Logos has its original brand geared to make family-friendly Christian Bible study and reading products and software. Vyrso expanded it to include more books outside of the Bible study genre. Noet includes the humanities. So either one creates another store and app for ebook reading, or one can fold it into another (probably Vyrso.)

As long as it just expands offerings and doesn't cut what you now produce, then it would be an excellent addition. I personally am always in favor of being in the world so that I can introduce people to Christ. As a church planter and pastor, we have used a secular storefront that meets a community need, while using it to introduce people to what really satisfies - Jesus Christ. I see the opportunity to use the entire secular Amazon library as a bookstore storefront where people get introduced to Jesus Christ.

Go for it! 

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/jimerwin/ - a postmodern pastor in a digital world

Posts 10319
Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 19 2015 7:40 AM

What an interesting conundrum.

- Logos already sells what in earlier times would merit Bob being burned at the stake.  But these days, it's for research. You know, the ones that prove the jewish priests invented the south Edom god now known as God.  The Bible's somewhat of a fraud, etc.

- The Logos Christian dating went up in massive flames, I'm not sure why. Many a parent hopes for Christian spouses for their kids.

- And cloudy licenses were all the rage just months ago. Might take away from our precious investments.

- But Bob selling just about anything the Evil One can dream up .... well, OK.  As long as it makes my Logos at bit more convenient. Sure.

Yes, I'm being sarcastic as usual.


Posts 3144
SineNomine | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 19 2015 7:57 AM

Bob Pritchett:
Bottom Line: If we could offer every ebook Amazon offers, but only if we did offer every ebook Amazon offers, should we? And if so, how?

*In brief, no. Categorically no. I don't want erotica etc. to be sold by Faithlife, and I can't find any theological justification for what would amount to cooperation in evil acts by Faithlife distributing pornography.

However, there is a middle ground that you hint at. Certainly, license the whole catalogue of publishers that don't offer erotica. Yes, this cuts down on publishers, but Faithlife is a Christian company. Isn't it? Bob, if I were you, my conscience would be forever under assault if I was selling pornographic ebooks. And rightly so.

*I've only read some of the preceding posts.

Posts 989
JohnB | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 19 2015 8:09 AM

I would be interested to know how many people on this forum would refuse to buy books published by a publisher that also publishes erotica.

Also how many will never buy books from Amazon, B & N, etc because they also sell erotica.

Or how many refuse to buy books from book shops that also sell erotica.

Just a thought.

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 19 2015 8:15 AM

Some thoughts (if you get this far in the thread! Stick out tongue)

  1. There ARE books I want in my library which don't fall into the Logos/Vyrso/Noet "boxes." For me, THE single selling factor of the Logos system is the integrated search library. ANY book which I might want to use in speaking or teaching (including ministry, cub scouts, Toastmasters, etc.) I would want in my library. 
  2. I DON'T wan't every book I own in my Logos library. I have over 6,000 books in Logos and about 1,000 on Kindle (many for free - $2). I am hesitant to buy any book on Kindle that I would want in Logos, and I am hesitant to buy any book in Logos/Vyrso which I wouldn't want in my library. I would not want a Louis L'amour book in my Library. I would want To Kill A Mockingbird. 
  3. I DON'T want the Logos or Vyrso stores ruined. Being able to pick up more titles in Vyrso would be great. I don't think Vyrso should become the Bizzaro Kindle store. I would love if it meant we could pick up more titles which fit in the current Vyrso box.
  4. I would be in favor of this possibility IF:
    • A new store were created
    • The Logos and Vyrso stores won't be disrupted (resources pulled from those efforts)

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Kevin A Lewis | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 19 2015 8:16 AM

Interesting observation.

If there were clearly available options to buy from the "ethical" supplier - I would.

Primarily though the burden would surely be on the purchaser of the "dodgy" content and the purveyor of the dodgy content - that latter in this case would be Faithlife. The people asking the questions here are those responsible for decision making in the potential purveyor (i.e. Faithlife and Bob himself).

hmm - never easy is it - life in the here and now!

Shalom

Posts 176
Al Het | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 19 2015 8:22 AM

I suspect I'm in the minority here, but I would much prefer you NOT provide vast resources from all genres, for basically two reasons.

First, it is just my particular feeling that the packages you offer now are significantly too vast in wide ranging areas.  So, if you sell a package that has the 20 scholarly original language books I need, I have to pay thousands of dollars for 15,000 books I don't need, don't want, and will never use.  As a Pastor, I'm often asked about Bible software I would recommend.  It's very difficult for me to recommend my Deacon pay $3,000 to get a great package, of maybe 40-50 books he might read at some point, while having to pay for 9,950 books he'd never use.  Making more books that are unrelated to Bible Study available to users doesn't necessarily increase this trend, I'm fairly certain it ultimately would.  

Second, the more Logos Bible Software tries to be all things to all people, the more watered down it will be in doing what I see as it's primary objective, that of studying Scripture and Scriptural resources.  This topic comes up on this forum a lot. 

A while back, someone noted that they searched and searched their Logos library for a type of information, but didn't find it.  Later, they did a Google search, and found it instantly.  Many responses followed about how Logos could do this and that differently, including a feature that searches the web.  I don't understand this thinking.  Why would we want you to try to reinvent Google?  They do that well.  In all honesty, I don't know why people would want you to compete with Amazon for pure reading material.  Amazon does it really well.  I do appreciate that Logos allows me to send some of the more "reading" oriented stuff in Logos to my Kindle, so that I can read it there.  However, I would much rather have not had to buy that stuff with a Logos package, and just pick it up really cheaply on Amazon, or a variety of other sources.

I'm almost certain to be in the minority with this view, but I do appreciate you asking the question, giving us the opportunity to express our opinions.

Al

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Bruce Dunning | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 19 2015 8:30 AM

David Taylor Jr:
With the example of the erotic fiction I would say has no place in logos.com. I will say if that ever made its way into the store I would cease using Logos on moral grounds.

I'd like to explore this further.

  1. First, in no way do I agree or want to support anything that is evil or contrary to Scripture.
  2. But, is the opportunity to access inappropriate material the baseline on setting our moral grounds? If it were, anyone wishing to live a godly life could not justify having access to the internet because there is much potential for accessing inappropriate material. Instead, most of us view the internet as a medium which is also the case with any bookstore. The internet and bookstores have sections that I don't ever want to visit but it also has the potential for much good. It just needs to be used correctly.

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Posts 176
Al Het | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 19 2015 8:32 AM

Robert Townsend:
Would it or could it still be called Logos Bible Software?

Interesting point.

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David Taylor Jr | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 19 2015 8:33 AM

Bruce Dunning:

David Taylor Jr:
With the example of the erotic fiction I would say has no place in logos.com. I will say if that ever made its way into the store I would cease using Logos on moral grounds.

I'd like to explore this further.

  1. First, in no way do I agree or want to support anything that is evil or contrary to Scripture.
  2. But, is the opportunity to access inappropriate material the baseline on setting our moral grounds? If it were, anyone wishing to live a godly life could not justify having access to the internet because there is much potential for accessing inappropriate material. Instead, most of us view the internet as a medium which is also the case with any bookstore. The internet and bookstores have sections that I don't ever want to visit but it also has the potential for much good. It just needs to be used correctly.

The internet also doesn't offer itself as a faith-based institution. Faithlife may be a business, but it is also a faith-based institution.  If they don't want to be (and I am not saying they don't this is hypothetical) then they need to change the company name.

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 19 2015 8:40 AM

Al Het:
First, it is just my particular feeling that the packages you offer now are significantly too vast in wide ranging areas.

This has absolutely nothing to do with base packages... or even "Logos edition" resources.

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 19 2015 8:48 AM

Bob - Let me revise my tentative "yes", to an unequivocal "no." 

I was thinking about this from a consumer point of view. I still shop at B&N even though they sell things I find objectionable. If the local "christian" book store started selling some of that stuff, it would give me more reasons not to shop there. If I owned a bookstore, there are some lines I would never cross. This would eliminate that line entirely.

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