Logos 4 Mac is a Mono (.NET) application?

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Patrick S. | Forum Activity | Posted: Sun, Jan 31 2010 6:41 AM

Hi

I looked into the Logos 4 Mac app bundle and saw, gasp, .DLLs everywhere, and then dug some more and found that Mono [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mono_(software) ] is being used. I guess this is a 'compromise' when having to deal with an application coming from the Windows world (as a Mac user trying not to choke) but I was wondering how far the compromising goes?

Obviously the application is not a full native Mac OS Cocoa application (a shame), but is it that the Logos 4 Mac 'textural engine' is Windows/.NET/Mono and the UI Mac/Cocoa. I would really hate to see Logos 4 Mac not following the Mac UI i.e. being a Windows app with a token migration to Mac.

Are there performance overheads/penalties using Mono?

Will Logos be able to take advantage of the unique performance technologies in Snow Leopard+ (http://www.apple.com/macosx/technology/) or will Logos 4 Mac have to be dumbed down to Windows level? For example in Snow Leopard I see that the 'Logos4Indexer' process is not 64 bit - BTW the indexing is taking much much longer on the Mac compared to Windows (even Win XP in VMware Fusion virtual machine).

 

"I want to know all God's thoughts; the rest are just details." - Albert Einstein

Posts 505
Michael Kares | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jan 31 2010 7:28 AM

This post may answer some of these questions: http://community.logos.com/forums/p/9041/71806.aspx#71806

Posts 505
Michael Kares | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jan 31 2010 7:29 AM

Indexing hasn't been optimized for the Mac yet.  Mac team is using most of their time building our user interface

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Jack Caviness | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jan 31 2010 10:12 AM

Patrick Starrenburg:
BTW the indexing is taking much much longer on the Mac compared to Windows (even Win XP in VMware Fusion virtual machine).

Welcome to L4 Mac and to the forum. Since you seem to be quite knowledgeable about computers, yu must surely know what Alpha software is. See the first link in my signature.

Patrick Starrenburg:
I would really hate to see Logos 4 Mac not following the Mac UI i.e. being a Windows app with a token migration to Mac.

The Mac and Windows versions of L4 share the same base code. The purpose of the present Alpha stage is to add a Mac UI to the base code. I have ben following the development of Logos for Mac for many years, and I am pleased with the progress thus far.

If you search this forum, you will discover that everything you have mentioned has been discussed repeatedly already. You can probably find plenty of information in the previously mentioned link, the Logos website, and the Wiki.

I'm not trying to cut you off. It's just that the regulars on this forum have been around this bush many times. With your apparent expertise, we welcome you to join in the Alpha/Beta testing process. You can help stamp out bugs and make contributions to the eventual look and feel of this application.

Posts 762
Patrick S. | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jan 31 2010 3:24 PM

Hi there, thanks for welcome.

Jack Caviness:

Since you seem to be quite knowledgeable about computers, yu must surely know what Alpha software is.

Ahhh, yes Alpha means rough around the edges and prone to software suicide - but the application design would however be already decided. I was curious how much of Mac UI and other underlying Mac technologies were being taken advantage of. Some (Snow Leopard) things which would benefit a resource intensive application like L4Mac. 

Jack Caviness:

If you search this forum, you will discover that everything you have mentioned has been discussed repeatedly already. You can probably find plenty of information in the previously mentioned link, the Logos website, and the Wiki.

Did some searches, unfortunately the forum software doesn't allow to select specific forum so a search like "mac development" returns 642 pages - ouch.

Anyway the various links were helpful thanks. Got more of background.

Jack Caviness:

With your apparent expertise, we welcome you to join in the Alpha/Beta testing process. You can help stamp out bugs and make contributions to the eventual look and feel of this application.

Happy to feedback, I will wait until it's more feature complete as there are significant chunks of functionality missing which means you can't really do a lot.

 

"I want to know all God's thoughts; the rest are just details." - Albert Einstein

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Forum MVP
Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jan 31 2010 3:46 PM

Searching forum for "mono" returns fewer results with some relevant information.

Tom Philpot, a Logos Mac Developer, provides some development tool insights:

http://community.logos.com/forums/p/7939/63626.aspx#63626

Earlier, Bob Pritchett provided an under the covers answer:

http://community.logos.com/forums/p/3619/27799.aspx#27799

Keep Smiling :)

Posts 299
Robert Mullen | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jan 31 2010 3:54 PM

Patrick Starrenburg:

Hi there, thanks for welcome.

Jack Caviness:

Since you seem to be quite knowledgeable about computers, yu must surely know what Alpha software is.

Ahhh, yes Alpha means rough around the edges and prone to software suicide - but the application design would however be already decided. I was curious how much of Mac UI and other underlying Mac technologies were being taken advantage of. Some (Snow Leopard) things which would benefit a resource intensive application like L4Mac. 

Jack Caviness:

If you search this forum, you will discover that everything you have mentioned has been discussed repeatedly already. You can probably find plenty of information in the previously mentioned link, the Logos website, and the Wiki.

Did some searches, unfortunately the forum software doesn't allow to select specific forum so a search like "mac development" returns 642 pages - ouch.

Anyway the various links were helpful thanks. Got more of background.

Jack Caviness:

With your apparent expertise, we welcome you to join in the Alpha/Beta testing process. You can help stamp out bugs and make contributions to the eventual look and feel of this application.

Happy to feedback, I will wait until it's more feature complete as there are significant chunks of functionality missing which means you can't really do a lot.

 

The most specific feedback we have gotten is that the core engine is .NET (Mono on OS X) and the UI is a complete new effort with Cocoa. I believe they are writing their own Cocoa-Mono bridge to hook the UI elements up. If any devs are following this I have a developer specific question I think you will understand. Objective C and Cocoa through XCode and Interface Builder really, really enforce Model-View-Controller architecture. Typically .NET stuff is not MVC (it isn't impossible but it takes effort and focus) as the VIew and the Controller just get mashed together with model being separate if you are careful (if not it is part of the mash.) Have you had any challenges incorporating the Windows code base because of the different architectural focuses?

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Jack Caviness | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jan 31 2010 6:55 PM

Patrick Starrenburg:
there are significant chunks of functionality missing which means you can't really do a lot.

It can crash rather well, at times. Geeked Actually, all the features present in L4 Windows are already present. We just need the UI to make them visible.

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