Pre-Pub Pricing (Baker Books)

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Friedrich | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 9 2010 10:14 AM

Matthew C Jones:

Dan DeVilder:
(and even I "argued" for taking at least a couple dollars off the new Baker Books, and also expressed my suspicious frustration--perhaps based on previous annoying experiences on the whole with them--with Z's new offerings).  Even with my own whining, I realize "pre-pub" means just what you said it does.

As mentioned earlier, we have come to expect Pre-Pubs to be heavily discounted based on past practice. Don't get mad at Logos for successfully using an advertising technique. Every day we respond to ads that promise "up to 90% off." Just be glad some Pre-Pubs are discounted and go from there. All that really matters in a business deal is if the Buyer & Seller agree on a price.  I like having the opportunity to decide for myself rather than not have any chance at all to purchase.

Dan DeVilder:
Perhaps some of us DO feel entitled.

Some are feeling entitled because they invested in large collections with Zondervan only to pay retail again. I have no sense of entitlement with Baker. I have purchased previous Baker collections and saved a lot. I am very happy with Baker's track record. Their software still works fine whereas Pradis never has been finessed. Baker's mistake in their current pricing was being realistic in setting their retail prices. Academic titles from Sheffield, Paternoster, Brill and most every college bookstore go for hundreds of dollars each, not $19.99.  I would feel much better to buy a Baker title at their current Pre-Pub prices if they would only list their retail at 4x what they do.  If you examine Baker's Pre-Pub Collections the per book price is no different than the new listings in Pre-Pub. The only difference is we get to pick & choose individual titles.

Dan DeVilder:

Hmmmm.  could there be a "Logos Lite", with all these "reading books" in a cheap production edition, and regular Logos with great tagging?  Maybe the two levels would increase Logos' reach, and increase sales.  I could see myself getting books in both styles.  Some reading books like "Simple Church" in Logos Lite, and other, more intense books (with tagging/searching capability to the max) at full SRP, as I need them.

Logos is the PERFECT software for academic & vocational use. In the past I would not have considered Logos for just "reading." Bob has changed all that with the introduction of the iPhone app and the "cloud" model of having a downloadable library with online access. Logos is now nearly the panacea of Bible software. My hope is to see Logos further expand to include the LOEB library and other "secular" works.  btw: The Harvard Classics is on Pre-Pub. http://www.logos.com/products/prepub/details/3661 

Do you know about the Nelson 501 book unlock?  http://www.logos.com/products/details/5905
This is a good example of how to mass market the "reading" material. I don't expect to get the same percentage discounted off "academic" or reference titles. 

 

Hi Matthew,

Not sure if you understood me correctly or maybe I am not understanding your response exactly.  Like "just be glad some Pre-pubs are discounted and go from there" (I am glad pre-pubs are discounted, and although I expressed that psychologically I might like a few dollars off on Baker's prepubs, I understand what is going on--to a degree--that they are not).  Also "don't get mad at Logos for a successfully using an advertising technique".  Not sure who that was directed at, nor what it exactly means.  (I am not being sarcastic or defensive, i really don't know.  Peace, Matthew!)

 

Dan

 

I like Apples.  Especially Honeycrisp.

Posts 64
Aaron Baldridge | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 9 2010 10:56 AM

Exactly. It makes no sense to pay full retail price for e copies of books that you can get for 20% or more by using nearly every Christian bookstores minister discount (for those of us that our ministers. Realize that there are many others that use Logos). Often I can save even more by buying from Amazon or CBD. Publishers need to understand that if they want their electronic divisions to succeed that they MUST price them to succeed. That's just the economic reality!

Aaron

Posts 1129
Keith Larson | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 9 2010 10:58 AM

Bob Pritchett:
There are many other factors that are part of this, some of which I'm reluctant to go into because they get into party-by-party contract details. But I can assure you that full-price doesn't sell "tons" of anything, and that there are other cash-flow and "who pays up front production costs" issues that ensure that the old model will continue to run in parallel. I personally think it's better for the publisher.

 

I would too. Over the years I don't care to add up how much I have spent on PrePubs. The discount creates a sense of urgency for the buyer, that other wise is not there. I personally don't have any incentive to place a PrePub order at these prices. As you have made very clear there is a limit to how far you can discount and still make a profit, but it is also true that there is often a 'sweet spot" where a discount will generate more profit.

Bob Pritchett:
While there are a few imperfections, exceptions, and even "books we forgot to revisit the price on" (there are 10,000 -- sometimes we forget some!), for the most part the full vs. discounted price decision is based on the book's present paper sales strength.

I didn't realized this, to be honest with you I have gave up on your unlock store years ago. I look forward to purchasing these current front-line Baker books at back-line discounts in the future.

Posts 569
J. Morris | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 9 2010 10:59 AM

Even after all my whining and complaining.... I just couldn't help but jump on this pre-pub....  Looks to good....  (cowering in shame)

http://www.logos.com/products/prepub/details/5990

 

Posts 2774
J.R. Miller | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 9 2010 11:44 AM

Bob Pritchett:
All this feedback is fascinating, and I appreciate it.
As an ordained pastor with 20+ years in ministry and a business owner for most of those years, I am honored to work for you Bob and Logos.   Thanks for everything you and your family do for Logos customers and for the Kingdom of God!  Cool

My Books in Logos & FREE Training

Posts 1355
Edwin Bowden | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 9 2010 12:01 PM

Jeremiah Daniel Morris:

Even after all my whining and complaining.... I just couldn't help but jump on this pre-pub....  Looks to good....  (cowering in shame)

http://www.logos.com/products/prepub/details/5990

 

At least you have the opportunity and choice to purchase it in Logos format -- at any price.

If Bob had insisted to Baker that Logos would only publish it if he could sell it heavily discounted, you would not have had that opportunity.

Posts 569
J. Morris | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 9 2010 12:27 PM

Edwin Bowden:

Jeremiah Daniel Morris:

Even after all my whining and complaining.... I just couldn't help but jump on this pre-pub....  Looks to good....  (cowering in shame)

http://www.logos.com/products/prepub/details/5990

 

At least you have the opportunity and choice to purchase it in Logos format -- at any price.

If Bob had insisted to Baker that Logos would only publish it if he could sell it heavily discounted, you would not have had that opportunity.

Well, it was not one I needed but simply wanted.  If it had not been there it wouldn't have mattered much to me.  And If it was a choice of having all these Baker titles at MSRP or none, my choice is still none....  I know that's not everyone's choice, but just speaking for myself.

 

Posts 168
Bill Gordon | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 9 2010 1:17 PM

Jeremiah Daniel Morris:

Even after all my whining and complaining.... I just couldn't help but jump on this pre-pub....  Looks to good....  (cowering in shame)

http://www.logos.com/products/prepub/details/5990

 

Thanks for the recommendation. I bought it. It looks like a great book. I will listen to it on my Kindle while I drive home today. No wait and a lot less money.

I would have preferred to have bought the book from Logos so it would be part of my general library. But Amazon got my money because it was only 40% of the cost of the Logos version.

Don’t get me wrong. I want Logos to succeed. I’ve already invested in purchasing nearly 3000 books from Logos.

Anonymous | | Replied: Tue, Feb 9 2010 4:33 PM

If my earlier 'temple' comments have been taken as a direct attack on Mr Pritchett or any other individual I offer my sincere apologies. They were not aimed at any person but rather at what I perceive, either rightly or wrongly, to be gross profiteering by (again perceived) Christian based businesses. Coming from a denomination where the $$ seems to be taking more precedence than the Word, I called what I (again right or wrong) saw to which it appears that I'm not alone.

Being relatively new to the ebook world (and one who came in kicking & screaming at that), my expectations / assumptions that a digital title should be less than a physical one may have been somewhat misguided. B & Z have demonstrated how wrong I am.  If God wishes me to have any of these titles, he will no doubt, provide them. It matters little to me whether they are Logos or a tattered used print copy. Ether way the words are still the same.

 

Posts 2905
Tes | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 9 2010 5:08 PM

Joe Miller:
Thanks for everything you and your family do for Logos customers and for the Kingdom of God!  Cool

 

 thank him,also as a customer,I cannot express in words,the joy I have to have these resourses,it is simply something worth,which cannot be measured in terms of money.for me it's not the money that matters,but the privilage I have of owning and using the resourses of Logos.If we give value to the words of God,and to the privilage we have it.I do'nt think that we have to spend days long to comment against  this.I really do'nt understand it why many give themselves  to critisize.I think it would be better to encourage the owner.No one forces anyone,if some one want to buy ,he can buy ,if not ,not. 

Blessings in Christ.

Posts 2905
Tes | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 9 2010 5:10 PM

Joe Miller:
Thanks for everything you and your family do for Logos customers and for the Kingdom of God!  Cool

 thank him,also as a customer,I cannot express in words,the joy I have to have these resourses,it is simply something worth,which cannot be measured in terms of money.for me it's not the money that matters,but the privilage I have of owning and using the resourses of Logos.If we give value to the words of God,and to the privilage we have it.I do'nt think that we have to spend days long to comment against  this.I really do'nt understand it why many give themselves  to critisize.I think it would be better to encourage the owner.No one forces anyone,if some one want to buy ,he can buy ,if not ,not. 

Blessings in Christ.

Posts 2905
Tes | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 9 2010 5:18 PM

Dan DeVilder:
Logos is the PERFECT software for academic & vocational use. In the past I would not have considered Logos for just "reading." Bob has changed all that with the introduction of the iPhone app and the "cloud" model of having a downloadable library with online access. Logos is now nearly the panacea of Bible software. My hope is to see Logos further expand to include the LOEB library and other "secular" works.  btw: The Harvard Classics is on Pre-Pub. http://www.logos.com/products/prepub/details/3661 

Thank you Dan,I am very glad about your comments.

Blessings in Christ.

Posts 299
Robert Mullen | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 9 2010 5:28 PM

Sandy Turnbull:

If my earlier 'temple' comments have been taken as a direct attack on Mr Pritchett or any other individual I offer my sincere apologies. They were not aimed at any person but rather at what I perceive, either rightly or wrongly, to be gross profiteering by (again perceived) Christian based businesses. Coming from a denomination where the $ seems to be taking more precedence than the Word, I called what I (again right or wrong) saw to which it appears that I'm not alone.

Being relatively new to the ebook world (and one who came in kicking & screaming at that), my expectations / assumptions that a digital title should be less than a physical one may have been somewhat misguided. B & Z have demonstrated how wrong I am.  If God wishes me to have any of these titles, he will no doubt, provide them. It matters little to me whether they are Logos or a tattered used print copy. Ether way the words are still the same.

 

When we are talking straight eBooks I totally agree they should be cheaper. I buy programming books for my day job and I will not buy an eBook unless it is significantly cheaper than print. To think of Logos as an eBook is to really miss out on what is glorious about it. I understand paying retail if need be when my books have meta data, linking, non-surface word searching, etc. Some sets are just too expensive for my blood and I wish they were cheaper (and think they would sell better if they were) but I understand what we are going about here. The study capabilities of Logos are just not approachable in print.

Anonymous | | Replied: Tue, Feb 9 2010 6:26 PM

Tes:

Joe Miller:
Thanks for everything you and your family do for Logos customers and for the Kingdom of God!  Cool

 thank him,also as a customer,I cannot express in words,the joy I have to have these resourses,it is simply something worth,which cannot be measured in terms of money.for me it's not the money that matters,but the privilage I have of owning and using the resourses of Logos.If we give value to the words of God,and to the privilage we have it.I do'nt think that we have to spend days long to comment against  this.I really do'nt understand it why many give themselves  to critisize.I think it would be better to encourage the owner.No one forces anyone,if some one want to buy ,he can buy ,if not ,not. 

For some of us, unfortunately, money must matter. In my own case, I receive a total of $50 per week by the Australian Government for attending Bible College on a full time basis. At the moment I have only a meagre five or six titles in Logos. To buy a basic Scholar's package at academic pricing is going to cost around three months earnings let alone a full year to own Z. For me to own them in any format will be a privilege. To own them in Logos will be nothing short of a miracle.

Posts 569
J. Morris | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 9 2010 6:56 PM

Robert Mullen:
I buy programming books for my day job and I will not buy an eBook unless it is significantly cheaper than print. To think of Logos as an eBook is to really miss out on what is glorious about it.

A good point to bring up Robert, thanks.  I do value my Logos resources more than a regular ebook, they are barely comparable really.  Which means I AM willing to pay more for a Logos resources than an ebook to use on Kindle...  While I still hold to my original issues (strongly), thanks for the reminder.

Posts 2824
Michael Childs | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 9 2010 7:25 PM

I just can't get over that the President of Logos takes time to enter into dialogue with customers.  That is really rare and wonderful.  Thanks Bob!

There are no perfect companies, excutives, or CUSTOMERS.  Logos is not perfect, but they do really try to do the right thing.  They do serve us well.

Like everyone else, I do not like to pay as much for e-books as paper, but I am willing to do so for a few really needed resources.  I am perfectly willing for those who can afford to do this to do so as often as they like.  I have nothing to complain about if they do.

What really bothers me are the Logos resources that are significantly higher than the street price of the book format. (NIV commentary for example.)  I realize that Logos does not control this, and the blame may lie with the publisher.  I hope that is so.  It does seem to me that to sell the e-book for more than the paper is short sighted.

I really am still not sure that the cost of logos resources are equal to the cost of paper books in the long run.  Once the product is produced, those costs are at some point covered by sells, and after that the profit margin for e-books has to be greater than paper books. 

That is the way it seems to many of us. 

The bottom line is that I have too big an investment - money and otherwise - in Logos not to continue to support this company.  I agree with much more that Logos does than I could ever disagree with.

I will certainly buy less Logos product if the cost is high as paper, but I am not angry about it.  That is just the reality of my finances.  I will buy the ones I can afford, and I will have to look for cheaper formats to access many of these resources.

 

 

"In all cases, the Church is to be judged by the Scripture, not the Scripture by the Church," John Wesley

Posts 569
J. Morris | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 9 2010 7:35 PM

Michael Childs:
I agree with much more that Logos does than I could ever disagree with.

I agree, thanks for posting that Michael.  That often gets overlooked by me when I do have an issue.

Posts 168
Bill Gordon | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 9 2010 8:59 PM

I agree that the Logos books are worth more but only if they are books that I will use as a reference. There are a lot of books that I am going to just read and never refer to again. These books are actually better on the Kindle since they are easier to read on that device. However, I am currently spending about five times as much on Logos books than I am on Kindle books because I am buying a lot more books from Logos.

I would also like to say that the quality of public domain books on Logos tend to have a much higher quality than public domain books on the Kindle. Many of the Kindle public domain books are just OCR scans without any editing (think Google Books). I purchased one a few days ago that was so bad that I called Amazon and asked for my money back. The book was only 99 cents but it was almost unreadable. The same book on Logos will cost me about 90 times more but I may buy it anyway because of the better quality.

Posts 18651
Rosie Perera | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Feb 10 2010 12:02 AM

Michael Childs:

I really am still not sure that the cost of logos resources are equal to the cost of paper books in the long run.  Once the product is produced, those costs are at some point covered by sells, and after that the profit margin for e-books has to be greater than paper books. 

If I'm understanding Bob's post correctly, the costs for supporting users once they buy the books add a continuing cost to the e-book that a paper book doesn't have. I don't know how that cost compares to the cost of printing a paper book. But I'm guessing it's higher. Bob said the cost of printing a book is pretty minimal compared to the cost of creating it in the first place. And once a person owns a paper book, he knows how to use it. (Unless it's the guy in this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LRBIVRwvUeE Smile) Not so with an e-book. Logos bears the cost of supporting all the users who call with installation problems, questions about how to use their book, how to highlight in it, how to get it set up on another computer, etc. This is a lifelong commitment to that user which Logos makes. So I can understand why it would be at least as expensive as a paper book.

Posts 2736
Bohuslav Wojnar | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Feb 10 2010 12:43 AM

Rosie, you killed me with that YouTube video Big Smile

Bohuslav

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