Andrews University + Logos Mobile Ed accreditation partnership?

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Tim Taylor | Forum Activity | Posted: Fri, Sep 4 2015 2:01 PM

Martin, have you seen/heard this latest news regarding Logos Mobile Ed? If only we could get things like this to happen with Andrews University, perhaps through Griggs University distance program? Why can't we be the head instead of the tail? Smile

https://community.logos.com/forums/t/115028.aspx

Posts 191
Rev. 14:6 | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Oct 8 2015 7:17 PM

Great idea Tim.  You know I ran into Dr. Miller last week and he told me that he is going to do a mobile ed program as well, but we need much more. 

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Martin Weber | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Oct 9 2015 3:24 PM

I concur with your vision of Logos Mobile Ed collaborating with the Seminary and SDA theological training around the world. We got off to a great start with Jon Paulien's Eschatology Bundle--but unfortunately it hasn't sold well enough to show Faithlife that there's a market for SDAs in Mobile Ed.

My strategy then was to engage Nick Miller from the Seminary to produce something on Pastors and the Law, which is of interest far beyond our SDA world and should sell very well across the denominational spectrum. I'm hoping this initiative quickly moves forward, but timing is out of my hands.

Meanwhile, I am looking forward to visiting the Seminary shortly with Logos academic leaders for the sake of establishing wide and deep collaboration. I'm hoping we can incorporate the Adventist Learning Community as well.

So that's where we are at this point. I'll keep you updated.

Martin

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Reimar Vetne | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Oct 9 2015 4:58 PM

I have watched large parts of Jon Paulien's Mobile Ed course on eschatology, and it is great content. Absolutely fantastic. So there is nothing wrong with the product.

The problem here is economics and pricing. The high prices of Logos Mobile Ed courses in general (compared to comparable video-courses and lectures put out by other companies) are probably affordable only to the top 5% or 2% of the Logos customers, and with the large user base they have that turns out to be enough customers to make the Mobile Ed courses profitable.

With the limited number of Logos SDA customers, the same 5% or 2% who might be able to afford it, is just not big enough of a group. Remember also that Adventists are a very international group compared to many other denominations, with probably quite a large number of Logos SDA users living in the third world countries, having got the Logos software sponsored by their employers. $300 for Paulien's course is a month's salary for many SDA pastors around the world.

So what can be done? Assuming that Mobile Ed courses do not have an unusual high mark-up, that it is simply the high cost of producing videos in Bellingham that causes the high prices of Mobile Ed courses, then we can also take advantage of the international character of the Adventist church. We have top-quality video-recording studios around the world. This Spring the Adventist Theological Society recorded a lot of academic videolectures/programs about the Bible in the TV studio of Montemorelos University in Mexico, for a fraction of the price it would have cost to produce in the US. Professors flew down from Andrews University and other institutions and spent a couple of days in Montemorelos each.

If Logos allowed SDA video-content to be produced, to their exact specifications with the white background, the exact formatting of text on the screen etc, at our studio locations outside the US, and then allowed the price of SDA Mobile Ed courses to reflect the radically lower production costs, then I think we could reach a critical mass of Adventist Mobile Ed customers who can afford and enjoy these courses.

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Oct 9 2015 7:36 PM

Re: pricing ... my bench mark is GTU Berkeley at apprx $700 for apprx 15 hours  instruction a little under $50 an hour. If Logos charged around $50 per hour of video, I think more people would see them as reasonably priced. Note these are MA not PHD level fees..

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 506
Tim Taylor | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Oct 10 2015 4:11 AM

Martin Weber:
unfortunately it hasn't sold well enough to show Faithlife that there's a market for SDAs in Mobile Ed.

Martin Weber:
I'm hoping we can incorporate the Adventist Learning Community as well.

Thanks for the update, Martin. In my opinion, these two elements of what you said are related in a crucial way. "Incorporating the Adventist Learning Community" in my opinion is not just an option to add "as well" to the strategy. It is mandatory. I don't see how SDA Mobile Ed courses can be successful without getting the SDA Learning Community on board. I would say that this community holds the majority of those who would be willing to pay the prices Logos asks for their courses. Especially if some sort of collaboration could be worked out with Logos and the various educational institutions. The Seminary already seems to have an interest in distance education through online video courses. This is a list I've compiled of the online courses that I am aware of. If we could somehow get this content converted to Logos Mobile Ed and integrated in to the Bible software, that would be wonderful! My point is that they've already put a lot of thought into it, which should make the transition easier than if they had never started going down this road before if that makes sense.

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Tim Taylor | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Oct 10 2015 4:22 AM

Martin Weber:
Meanwhile, I am looking forward to visiting the Seminary shortly with Logos academic leaders for the sake of establishing wide and deep collaboration.

This is exciting news. I've been waiting for this to happen for about 2 years now. I am glad it is happening, although I wish it could have happened sooner, as I'll be done with my MDiv here in about 8 weeks. I've had quite a number of students interested in getting a 50% discount and I've tried to organize things, but the slow pace at which the partnership seems to be moving between the Seminary and Logos has made it difficult. I've been trying to get ahold of Michael Meiser with Logos to try to organize one last attempt at doing a training event to bring the interest to fruition here before I leave. He has not returned my phone calls or voicemail though, unfortunately. I'm afraid some of this potential is being lost, but maybe I just need more patience.  :)

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Lynden Williams | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Oct 10 2015 4:35 AM

Reimar Vetne:
If Logos allowed SDA video-content to be produced, to their exact specifications with the white background, the exact formatting of text on the screen etc, at our studio locations outside the US, and then allowed the price of SDA Mobile Ed courses to reflect the radically lower production costs, then I think we could reach a critical mass of Adventist Mobile Ed customers who can afford and enjoy these courses.

The same can be said about Jamaica, Guyana, and a good part of Latin America. Look at the size of the Church in Inter-America.

Lynden Williams Communications https://www.lyndenwilliams.net 

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Martin Weber | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 12 2015 9:39 AM

All of what you are saying makes a lot of sense to me. But here's my frustration: our church believes it can do academics without Logos. I can understand, since we have such a magnificent educational system. But as we all know, Logos has a huge edge in technology, and our church is slow to learn that what they think is digital high tech really isn't.

As to the expense of Logos Mobile Ed, I wish I could tell you how much money Faithlife invested in producing Paulien's eschatology bundle. I'll just say that lots of support people in the US work full time for the church getting paid less than what Faithlife invested in producing that bundle.

In the past I have reached out several times to Adventist Learning Center and have gotten no response, not even a phone call or email. I'm hoping in person to meet with ALC when I'm at Andrews (the date for which is still up in the air--I'm checking multiple times every week to see if they can get the date of that visit nailed down--there was illness with one of the faculty coordinators that delayed our visit).

Tim, all those video learning courses mentioned above seem magnificent. I long to have them all in Logos. However, Logos can't incorporate them into Mobile Ed. The Logos system requires professors to come here--otherwise all they need to do can't get done. 

Meanwhile, we can do what Reimar has done--and perhaps get others to do that for a Faithlife SDA YouTube channel.

Summarizing: both SDA academia and Logos have highly efficient systems, and it's difficult to facilitate collaboration. God helped me with Jon Paulien, and I connected Nick Miller according to the strategy I previously described. At least we've got things started.

The only thing I can directly implement myself is a scholarly presentation I've been asked to give at the Adventist Society of Religious Studies next month in Atlanta (at AAR, preceding SBL). My paper will be on the theological and philosophical mandate and benefits of interfaith collabortion--specifically the need for Adventists to collaborate with compatible non-SDA organizations like Faithlife. Someone at the Seminary who chairs the ASRS committee actually approved me making the scholarly case for SDAs collaborating with Logos.

Please pray for that, and everything we hope to get done meanwhile.  Thanks!

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Lynden Williams | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 12 2015 6:38 PM

Martin Weber:
Please pray for that, and everything we hope to get done meanwhile.

Will do Martin.

Lynden Williams Communications https://www.lyndenwilliams.net 

Posts 235
C M | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 19 2015 10:42 AM

Reimar Vetne:
If Logos allowed SDA video-content to be produced, to their exact specifications with the white background, the exact formatting of text on the screen etc, at our studio locations outside the US, and then allowed the price of SDA Mobile Ed courses to reflect the radically lower production costs, then I think we could reach a critical mass of Adventist Mobile Ed customers who can afford and enjoy these courses.

Reimar, 

IMHOP, the problem or impasse seems to be control and objectives: Getting them to sell your products in their store, at your price, so a select mass can take advantage of it. This, in my view, is what you are dealing with. At the end of the day, money has a way of complicating well-meaning intentions. I hope the two organizations find common ground so many more can be blessed and financially satisfy the rest. "The Gospel is free, but there is a cost to carry it."

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Martin Weber | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 19 2015 5:08 PM

I've been discussing a possible work-around that would enable Logos SDA to approach Adventist Learning Center with an offer to license their videos without the normal constraints and expenses of generating full-fledged Logos Mobile Ed courses. I can't be more specific now, but that's what I'll try to get done.

Posts 235
C M | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 20 2015 4:12 AM

Martin Weber:
I've been discussing a possible work-around that would enable Logos SDA to approach Adventist Learning Center with an offer to license their videos without the normal constraints and expenses of generating full-fledged Logos Mobile Ed courses.

I Pray God grant your efforts favor.  "Where there's a will there's a way."

Posts 250
Edwin Sully PAYET | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 24 2015 11:31 PM

Looking forward for thisBig Smile

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