Is it really the Encyclopedia Britannica as we might of thought?

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This post has 261 Replies | 21 Followers

Posts 1395
James Taylor | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Oct 8 2015 5:37 PM

Bob Pritchett:
we all share the same desire to do the right thing, to take care of our customers, and to respond quickly. It's a good thing that I don't have to jump in on every issue... but I'm always available if you want me to

Excellence in leadership :-)

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Bruce Dunning | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Oct 8 2015 5:59 PM

James Taylor:

Bob Pritchett:
we all share the same desire to do the right thing, to take care of our customers, and to respond quickly. It's a good thing that I don't have to jump in on every issue... but I'm always available if you want me to

Excellence in leadership :-)

Yes

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Posts 276
Greg F | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Oct 8 2015 6:00 PM

James Taylor:
Excellence in leadership :-)

Really? I was expecting something somewhat more apologetic than self-congratulatory.

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James Taylor | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Oct 8 2015 6:09 PM

Greg F:
expecting something somewhat more apologetic

He mentioned that his team had handled it appropriately, which included an apology and a very generous contribution towards making it right.

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James Taylor | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Oct 8 2015 6:10 PM

James Taylor:
a very generous contribution towards making it right.

which I'm sure Phil had to clear with the boss, if it wasn't the bosses initiative in the first place to offer the new edition for no extra charge.

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Oct 8 2015 6:11 PM

Dale Cunningham:
But when the new pre-publication is listed, would you please specifically compare / contrast what is being offered with the version still being offered on community pricing at https://www.logos.com/product/33266/encyclopedia-britannica.  I was told when the Noet edition was first offered that it was the same as that on community pricing but I am not sure that this is the case.

You are confusing two pre-pubs. The one you link to is an OLD resource. Notice the date of 1910-1922. The NOET EDITION was always a NEW edition. Both were in pre-pub, but the Noet edition is the one being discussed in the numerous posts here and was released this week. It will go BACK into pre-pub based on the conversation in this thread.

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Posts 276
Greg F | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Oct 8 2015 6:18 PM

Let's remember what happened: Faithlife took several (tens of?) thousands of dollars from its customers for a children's encyclopedia dressed up as a major contribution to science and human learning. There may indeed have been internal miscommunication, but it was pretty clear to me be before the product shipped that we weren't being provided with all the necessary information, almost deliberately so. The discrepancy between what was being marketed and what was being sold was so glaring that the employees in charge of the product should have stopped the roll-out before this mess happened in the first place.

Since then there has indeed been a justification qua apology, with the promise to eventually provide us with the product we were expecting in the first place.

I would have hoped that this incident would lead the CEO to consider that there is a serious problem with FL's approach to how it markets its products in general, but this doesn't seem to be the case. More back slapping for Faithlife's "integrity" post factum isn't going to help either.

Posts 1395
James Taylor | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Oct 8 2015 6:29 PM

Greg F:
almost deliberately so

I will leave it to the leadership to decide where and by whom the real errors were made and trust that they will internally deal with it appropriately.

Greg F:
provide us with the product we were expecting in the first place.

As for what has now been promised to those who purchased, I feel it will overcompensate for the harm done. Now those of us with children will have access to an encyclopedia that the family can all use :-) As well as a more academic version for our own studies. And all this for $100. I'm satisfied.  You call that back slapping, I call it gratitude.

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Posts 1892
mike | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Oct 8 2015 6:42 PM

Let's appreciate this by spending another $200-300 into Logos.

Logos worked hard for us. Let them know that their effort is never unappreciated.

Posts 819
Lew Worthington | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Oct 8 2015 7:32 PM

James Taylor:

Excellence in leadership :-)

As I've followed this issue and the ensuring conversation, what started out as something that could have reasonably been regarded as FL's biggest snafu is really proving to be one of the best demonstrations of customer centered leadership I've seen.

Posts 623
JAL | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Oct 8 2015 8:18 PM

Bob Pritchett:
I saw that Phil and others were already addressing the issue well, and I decided it was a great success in delegation. :-)

I, and I'm sure many others, shared this perception. I think better of the situation knowing that your team can act as needed, without the CEO micromanaging, yet it is always good to read from you.

"The Christian mind is the prerequisite of Christian thinking. And Christian thinking is the prerequisite of Christian action." - Harry Blamires, 1963

Posts 4028
abondservant | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Oct 8 2015 8:54 PM

Mark Barnes:

if you had to make a choice between choosing an article on "Celiac Disease" or Caligula, I'd much rather you chose the latter.



Indeed - I'm sure you're already planning to sort for things that will benefit study of scripture vs things that wont, but its a good point.

I'd prefer Jewish culture circa 0 AD to "Johns Hopkins" or "Jon Kerry".

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Posts 191
Valerie Pobog | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Oct 8 2015 10:04 PM

I couldn't agree more. It has shaken my confidence in FL. 

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Phil Gons (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Oct 8 2015 10:32 PM

steve clark:

Even with this explanation something seems odd.

On your product webpage, it says that there should be:

  1. more than 20,000 photos
  2. over 2,000 art images
  3. 1,567 maps
  4. 279 flags
  5. 689 videos
  6. (EBNE) includes more than 25,000 images

But a search of what i received as EBNE shows:  (search done with the Logos6 Search tool using Media search)

  1. 682 Photos
  2. 750 Maps
  3. 249 Videos
  4. All images combined = 2,234  (search for All images in EBNE)
     
          

It should have been obvious something was wrong during the creation of the EBNE when there was such a vast difference in the number of image which were built into EBNE (you actually added only 2,234 images out of 25,000 images). Even with your company's silo structure, the builders would have noticed the discrepancy in the image count.

So i am still puzzled on what really happened at FL when this product was built and released. i cannot imagine someone at FL didn't notice the vast differences in images before the release. (some 22,000+ images missing)

The best I can tell from talking to their team and reading back through past email correspondence, someone from there team gave us the 25,000 number. Our team trusted that it was accurate and didn't verify it with the team that produced the product. What seems to have happened—and I'm speculating—is that this individual neglected to take into consideration that EB doesn't have sub-licensing rights on all their media and was able to include only the media owned by them. So we got 100% of the media that they can give us, but not 100% of the media they have. We'll do our best to include as much media as we can from Encyclopedia Britannica, along with the media we delivered with Compton's. We'll make sure the updated page has accurate counts of articles, media, etc. I'm sorry for this inaccuracy.

steve clark:
i am also disappointed at the resolution of images that came with EBNE. They are really low resolution images (see example below) and many are blurry and unreadable. Even when printing these images they are still low resolution. i was hoping that the images would be a higher resolution so that they may be viewed in Factbook or at least printed and viewed at full (higher) resolution.

We'll check to see if they have higher resolution images that we can use.

Posts 26
David Walsh | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Oct 9 2015 12:29 AM

Hi, I purchased and returned immediately. I have been a Logos customer for about 10 years and have spent tens of thousands of pounds on various products and schemes offered by Faithlife. I use Logos 6 everyday and for the most part enjoy. This smacks of a great lack of integrity on the part of Faithlife in wanting to obtain money, not just for old rope (again), but for a seriously flawed and sub standard product. To say miscommunication is a lie. What am I buying? How much for? are the two basic questions in any business. Please admit your scam and go a long way to repent and put it right. I am seriously considering whether to withdraw my custom and all my support of Logos and their products. Faithlife must set a higher standard as professed followers of Jesus. You have let your customer base down and up your game.

Posts 824
GregW | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Oct 9 2015 2:04 AM

I appreciate the frustration and anger you feel over this issue, but I think you need to be very careful about the use of words like "scam" and "lie". I agree that this is a major foul-up, but also see that FL is doing its level best to sort it out and do the right thing by its customers, within the constraints that the licensing arrangements with EB will allow it to. 

My experience with FL over the years has consistently been that they try to do the right thing, and when there is a snafu like this, they generally try to put it right. Flinging unsubstantiated accusations of dishonesty does nothing constructive to resolve the situation, and certainly won't help those in FL like Phil who are trying to sort this out when they see their integrity being impugned on the forums. I am always disappointed on these forums by the way that some posters immediately jump to conclusions that assume the worst motives in FL. 

Should it have happened? No. Is it bad? Yes. As someone who has managed at senior level in large organisations I know that things happen at times that you regret, knew nothing about, but then end up having to sort out. Please let Phil and Bob sort this out before thinking the worst of their motives. All the time they have to spend responding here (and getting disheartened by such comments on here) takes away from time spent sorting things out. 


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Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Oct 9 2015 2:29 AM

David Walsh:
Please admit your scam and go a long way to repent and put it right.

It sounds very much that you didn't bother to read the thread and see the official Logos response: https://community.logos.com/forums/p/117294/770418.aspx#770418

You've made some serious allegations that conflict significantly with what Faithlife have said since these problems came to light. I suggest you either back those allegations with evidence, you admit you are wrong and go a long way to repent and put your false allegations right.

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Ted Hans | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Oct 9 2015 2:35 AM

Mark Barnes:

David Walsh:
Please admit your scam and go a long way to repent and put it right.

It sounds very much that you didn't bother to read the thread and see the official Logos response: https://community.logos.com/forums/p/117294/770418.aspx#770418

You've made some serious allegations that conflict significantly with what Faithlife have said since these problems came to light. I suggest you either back those allegations with evidence, you admit you are wrong and go a long way to repent and put your false allegations right.

Agreed Yes. This is one serious charge! I hope David takes the time to read the various responses from Faithlife on this thread.

David simply put - you are wrong! 

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JAL | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Oct 9 2015 2:44 AM

GregW:
I appreciate the frustration and anger you feel over this issue, but I think you need to be very careful about the use of words like "scam" and "lie".

GregW:
Should it have happened? No. Is it bad? Yes.

GregW:
Flinging unsubstantiated accusations of dishonesty does nothing constructive to resolve the situation...

Exactly. Thanks GregW

    Guard your heart more than anything you treasure,

for it is the source of all life.

    Keep your mouth from crooked speech

and banish deceitful talk from your lips.

                                                        Proverbs 4:23-24

"The Christian mind is the prerequisite of Christian thinking. And Christian thinking is the prerequisite of Christian action." - Harry Blamires, 1963

Posts 1061
John Goodman | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Oct 9 2015 4:35 AM

I'm confused by the communication - I thought it was an old Britannica and let the deal pass me by. If I'd known that the Noet edition was different then I'd have bought in... The communication is critical!

גַּם־חֹשֶׁךְ֮ לֹֽא־יַחְשִׁ֪יךְ מִ֫מֶּ֥ךָ וְ֭לַיְלָה כַּיּ֣וֹם יָאִ֑יר כַּ֝חֲשֵׁיכָ֗ה כָּאוֹרָֽה

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