Is it really the Encyclopedia Britannica as we might of thought?

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Bruce Dunning | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Oct 9 2015 5:02 AM

Greg F:
almost deliberately so

They have clearly said that this was not deliberate but was a mistake. Saying "deliberately" speaks to motive and I don't think any of us are able to properly assess that. Nor should we.

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John Kight | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Oct 9 2015 5:06 AM

Bruce Dunning:

Greg F:
almost deliberately so

They have clearly said that this was not deliberate but was a mistake. Saying "deliberately" speaks to motive and I don't think any of us are able to properly assess that. Nor should we.

Yes

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Bruce Dunning | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Oct 9 2015 5:13 AM

David Walsh:

Hi, I purchased and returned immediately. I have been a Logos customer for about 10 years and have spent tens of thousands of pounds on various products and schemes offered by Faithlife. I use Logos 6 everyday and for the most part enjoy. This smacks of a great lack of integrity on the part of Faithlife in wanting to obtain money, not just for old rope (again), but for a seriously flawed and sub standard product. To say miscommunication is a lie. What am I buying? How much for? are the two basic questions in any business. Please admit your scam and go a long way to repent and put it right. I am seriously considering whether to withdraw my custom and all my support of Logos and their products. Faithlife must set a higher standard as professed followers of Jesus. You have let your customer base down and up your game.

Certainly Faithlife made a major mistake but your response is very strong and doesn't seem to take into account their official explanation of what happened. We must all be very careful not to judge other people's motives because we simply don't know them.

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Rokas | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Oct 9 2015 6:31 AM

David Walsh:
.

To say miscommunication is a lie. <...> Please admit your scam and go a long way to repent and put it right:

It must have been miscommunication.

Do you really think Faithlife would try to scam such a big group of people and continue doing business?

It would make sense if Faithlife would collect money and then simply disappear. But it really doesn't make sense to say that Faithlife would collect money, deliver the wrong product deliberately and hope no-one would notice. It is simply impossible.Smile

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steve clark | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Oct 9 2015 7:00 AM

Thank you Sir for taking the time to reply to my questions!
Also thank you for your honesty!

Phil Gons (Faithlife):
The best I can tell from talking to their team and reading back through past email correspondence, someone from there team gave us the 25,000 number. Our team trusted that it was accurate and didn't verify it with the team that produced the product. What seems to have happened—and I'm speculating—is that this individual neglected to take into consideration that EB doesn't have sub-licensing rights on all their media and was able to include only the media owned by them. So we got 100% of the media that they can give us, but not 100% of the media they have. We'll do our best to include as much media as we can from Encyclopedia Britannica, along with the media we delivered with Compton's. We'll make sure the updated page has accurate counts of articles, media, etc. I'm sorry for this inaccuracy.

It is disappointing to hear that there are so few images that [might] come with this encyclopedia (less than 1/10 of what was advertised). i understand FL's position with EB on the sub-licensing. i hope that sometime in the near future that ya'll will get accurate details on what the new version of the encyclopedia will contain and post it on the product page. i am guessing that you will have this info prior to starting work on the replacement encyclopedia.

Phil Gons (Faithlife):
We'll check to see if they have higher resolution images that we can use.

That would be helpful for the images that will appear in the encyclopedia. It would also be helpful to let us know in advance approximately how many of the images that will be higher resolution (e.g. percentage of pictures and approximate resolution).

One other question. When will the new Pre-Pub product page be available on FL for this new replacement encyclopedia?

i searched last night on the Logos & Noet site for this new Pre-Pub page and did not find it.

Thank you again for taking time to answer my questions!

 

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SteveHD | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Oct 9 2015 7:10 AM

This situation (thread) was getting so much better. True healing was going on. Then someone just had to try to peak under the scab.

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Greg F | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Oct 9 2015 7:17 AM

I simply demanded a refund. I'll leave this thread to the Sunday school moralisers and the Faithlife fanclub. :)

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abondservant | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Oct 9 2015 7:39 AM

Mark Barnes:

David Walsh:
Please admit your scam and go a long way to repent and put it right.

It sounds very much that you didn't bother to read the thread and see the official Logos response: https://community.logos.com/forums/p/117294/770418.aspx#770418

You've made some serious allegations that conflict significantly with what Faithlife have said since these problems came to light. I suggest you either back those allegations with evidence, you admit you are wrong and go a long way to repent and put your false allegations right.

Ted Hans:

Agreed Yes. This is one serious charge! I hope David takes the time to read the various responses from Faithlife on this thread.

David simply put - you are wrong! 




But you've used some harsh language, and less than full understanding of the facts.

Faithlife and Bob have been and are always willing to go the extra mile to make things right. As I found out recently even when its not their mistake (long story). Bob and co are men & people of integrity. If they say it was a communication snafu, then I believe that it most certainly was. At this juncture lying wins them no friends, and only creates more problems. What is their motive? To save the sales? to keep from losing money? They most certainly have done enough to keep - I presume - most of the sales (and certainly did enough for me to re-instate my own purchase), they have added value - probably 10-60,000 more articles - and at no extra cost. They are certainly going to fix the tagging. We will (Eventually) get everything marketing promised. Plus if I had to guess based on past experiences and issues they are having meetings right now (or have already) on how to prevent this from happening in the future. I bet they institute a system of checks and balances to keep this from happening again. Because neither vendor nor customer wants this sort of thing to happen.

Have you never had a miscommunication with your wife? And you two share a home. Logos has almost 250x that number of people involved in multiple countries, and at multiple sites within those countries. The opportunity for miscommunication is huge. The important part is that they make things right - and they have. I doubt that Bob or FL would pursue it. But basically what you've done is committed an act of libel, something that could be (and likely wont because Bob and co are good guys) followed up legally.

What other company lets you slander them in their own forums? I've seen people banned elsewhere for less.


Greg F:

I simply demanded a refund. I'll leave this thread to the Sunday school moralisers and the Faithlife fanclub. :)



That is your right - to request a refund. They will certainly give it to you; though I think it might be short sighted. The refund window is extended until 30 days after the repaired product ships.

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Greg F | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Oct 9 2015 7:42 AM

You're mixing up your threads/commenters, Abondservant.

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abondservant | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Oct 9 2015 7:44 AM

Greg F:

You're mixing up your threads/commenters, Abondservant.



Well I suppose I could have been more specific. Sorry and I'll correct that.

Really only the first line pertained to you. I copied your quote, and that one line to the end, then expanded it a touch.

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steve clark | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Oct 9 2015 7:52 AM

 

Careful Sir...

abondservant:
We will (Eventually) get everything marketing promised.

Probably not true. Did you read Phil's response on promised images? There will probably Not be 25,000 images as promised. Please carefully read Phil's response. So they will probably need to re-write the product page to reflect what will actually be in the replacement encyclopedia.

[not trying to start a flame war here, but lets use the facts brother]

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Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Oct 9 2015 8:02 AM

Greg F:
I simply demanded a refund.

You didn't need to 'demand' one, because it's already been offered. All you need to do is to take Faithlife up on their offer to fix the mess that they've acknowledged they've created.

Greg F:
I'll leave this thread to the Sunday school moralisers and the Faithlife fanclub. :)

But ad hominen attacks on fellow forum users don't help anyone, even if they're followed by a smiley. I know people are angry and understandably upset, but let's keep this civil.

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Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Oct 9 2015 8:07 AM

steve clark:

abondservant:
We will (Eventually) get everything marketing promised.

Probably not true. Did you read Phil's response on promised images? There will probably Not be 25,000 images as promised. Please carefully read Phil's response. So they will probably need to re-write the product page to reflect what will actually be in the replacement encyclopedia.

[not trying to start a flame war here, but lets use the facts brother]

Agreed. Whatever happens, we're going to get something different from what was promised. Because the original product description was so mixed up, it won't be possible to deliver exactly what was originally promised. That's obviously far from ideal, but those who are not satisfied have been promised a full refund on request.

But I'm hoping we might end up with something I think is better than what was promised. We might end up with more articles and less images, for example, which would suit me better.

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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Oct 9 2015 8:53 AM

Mark Barnes:
But I'm hoping we might end up with something I think is better than what was promised. We might end up with more articles and less images, for example, which would suit me better.
 

That would suit me better too. I am hopeful the final product is focused on the classics and history. (a real NOET edition.)

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abondservant | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Oct 9 2015 9:06 AM

Mark Barnes:

But I'm hoping we might end up with something I think is better than what was promised. We might end up with more articles and less images, for example, which would suit me better.



True enough. The images were an issue that really doesn't affect me in terms of the way in which I use Logos.

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abondservant | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Oct 9 2015 9:36 AM

I noticed some other things too that were odd... I've reported the typos.

For instance, if you jump to the article on John Calvin (where the Institutes are mentioned but not linked?!) and scroll down a few entries you'll see one on "calypso music" that should be listed as "Calypso Music".

Further down, some headings are bold and centered, others not, and aligned left. Observe:

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Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Oct 9 2015 9:40 AM

abondservant:
Further down, some headings are bold and centered, others not, and aligned left.

The left aligned headings are "Heading 2", the centre ones are "Heading 3".

I'm surprised you didn't mention that there's never a space after "See also"!

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abondservant | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Oct 9 2015 9:43 AM

Mark Barnes:

abondservant:
Further down, some headings are bold and centered, others not, and aligned left.

The left aligned headings are "Heading 2", the centre ones are "Heading 3".

I'm surprised you didn't mention that there's never a space after "See also"!



The issues are many :). I know they will fix it though.

Heading 3 shouldn't ever draw more attention than heading 2, or heading 1 I wouldn't think?

Heading 1 (major article)

Heading 2 (major subdivision of article)

Heading 3 (further divisions). Right?

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Dan Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Oct 9 2015 9:48 AM

Greg F:

I simply demanded a refund. I'll leave this thread to the Sunday school moralisers and the Faithlife fanclub. :)

I use FL daily but I am not one to hold my tongue if i think something wrong has happened. The only way I could say there has been any intentional misdoing on FL part, might be in your charge that SOMEONE must have realized the mistake before it's release. But I will not guarantee that this had happened (people busy at their jobs putting the information in place they were given, possibly telling higher ups. we are not done yet we will show it to you when we are done, and if like me you didn't have access to the full version, looking at one of the longer articles you might not notice anything is wrong unless you sat down to read it). I am still looking forward to getting Brittanica in it's Noet version, but I also have decided to do something many people might do instead of buying it here. I have paid the $14.99 to have a year long subscription for it on my iPad, not as nice having an offline edition, but I can live with it, unlike some cloud based programs Britannica seems very fast on my iPad. 

Faithlife made a mistake, faithlife is working to make sure this error is corrected, I am happy with their actions to correct it even if the original product was very sub par. If this makes me a member of the "fan club" I am.

-Dan

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Graham Owen | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Oct 9 2015 9:58 AM

Dan Francis:
Faithlife made a mistake, faithlife is working to make sure this error is corrected, I am happy with their actions to correct it even if the original product was very sub par. If this makes me a member of the "fan club" I am.

Well said Dan

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