New Feature: Lemma in Passage (Dataset)

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Jacob Cerone | Forum Activity | Posted: Mon, Dec 14 2015 3:10 PM

What is it?

The Lemma in Passage section scours your commentaries for every occurrence of the original-language lemma in the passage you want to investigate. For instance, the Greek word "logos" appears in the context of a discussion about John 1:1–even in resources not explicitly about the Gospel of John. Results are categorized according to the dictionary form of the word, and organized by resource. 

How does it work?

Lemma in passage can be accessed either in the Exegetical Guide or the Bible Word Study Guide. Each guide presents data uniquely. In the passage guide, each lemma that occurs within the context of the passage you're studying will be displayed under the heading of that specific lemma. Results can appear in any commentary—even if it's not a commentary on the specific book you're studying—that contains a discussion of both the passage you're referencing in the guide and that lemma.

The Bible Word Study Guide displays all commentaries within your library that contain a discussion of the Greek, Hebrew, or Aramaic word you've looked up. This can become especially overwhelming if you look, for instance, for an article, conjunction, or other such high frequency words.

    Where can I learn more?

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    JH | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 14 2015 5:26 PM

    This feature works for me in Passage Guides and Exegetical Guides, but doesn't seem to return any results in the BWS. Any ideas what I am doing wrong?

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    Jacob Cerone | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 14 2015 5:43 PM

    Is the section available? It may need to be added to the BWS

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    JH | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 14 2015 5:57 PM

    Jacob Cerone:

    Is the section available? It may need to be added to the BWS

    Yes, it is there, but no word I select shows up. I have tried about every lemma in Hebrews 1:1, and they all return "no result".

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    John Brumett | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 15 2015 4:37 AM

    This would be nice if this worked for my collection of Greek Lexicons.   

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    John Fidel | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 15 2015 5:42 AM

    JH:

    Yes, it is there, but no word I select shows up. I have tried about every lemma in Hebrews 1:1, and they all return "no result".

    JH, I cannot replicate your problem. I am providing a few screenshots in hopes it may help you diagnose you problem. As you can see I get results on Heb 1.1 in BWS on the lemma πολυμερῶς. I also show the commentaries that I have hits to. You need to have commentaries that have hits to the original greek word. Can you confirm you have some of the commentaries listed in the screenshot below? If so, it may be an indexing issue. I suggest you wait for a reply from FL before reindexing.

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    Rick Brannan (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 15 2015 5:47 AM

    John Fidel:

    JH:

    Yes, it is there, but no word I select shows up. I have tried about every lemma in Hebrews 1:1, and they all return "no result".

    JH, I cannot replicate your problem. I am providing a few screenshots in hopes it may help you diagnose you problem.

    The only other thing I can think of offhand is to ask if you have BWS filtered down to a particular passage range? Where John's screen capture has "All Passages", does yours have that as well? Or is it filtered down to a particular passage range?

    Also: In addition to Logos Now, which Logos 6 package do you have? Or which commentaries do you own that you expect to show there?

    Rick Brannan
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    Orpheus Heyward | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 15 2015 6:27 AM

    This feature works really great in the Exegetical guide.  In BWS, it pulls what all your commentaries say about a lemma regardless of what text it is found in, which can be a bit much. However in Exegetical guide it pulls information about a lemma from commentaries that speak about your specific passage.  This really narrows the study to what a word means in a particular context.

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    JH | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 15 2015 6:32 AM

    Rick Brannan (Faithlife):

    The only other thing I can think of offhand is to ask if you have BWS filtered down to a particular passage range? Where John's screen capture has "All Passages", does yours have that as well? Or is it filtered down to a particular passage range?

    Also: In addition to Logos Now, which Logos 6 package do you have? Or which commentaries do you own that you expect to show there?

    I restarted Logos several times last night and no luck. This morning, after a fresh reboot, it is now working. Strange, but glad to have it working now. (BTW, it is a very nice feature to have...)

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    JH | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 15 2015 6:42 AM

    JH:

    Rick Brannan (Faithlife):

    The only other thing I can think of offhand is to ask if you have BWS filtered down to a particular passage range? Where John's screen capture has "All Passages", does yours have that as well? Or is it filtered down to a particular passage range?

    Also: In addition to Logos Now, which Logos 6 package do you have? Or which commentaries do you own that you expect to show there?

    I restarted Logos several times last night and no luck. This morning, after a fresh reboot, it is now working. Strange, but glad to have it working now. (BTW, it is a very nice feature to have...)

    I spoke too soon. I am currently reading through NA27 (Interlinear w/ GRAMCORD). When I right click on a Greek word and select the lemma from the drop down, then select BWS, it never returns results for Lemma in Passage. If I repeat this process from the ESV, it works correctly.

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    NB.Mick | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 15 2015 7:33 AM

    JH:

    I am currently reading through NA27 (Interlinear w/ GRAMCORD). When I right click on a Greek word and select the lemma from the drop down, then select BWS, it never returns results for Lemma in Passage. If I repeat this process from the ESV, it works correctly.

    Maybe only Logos Morphology works, and GRAMCORD etc. alternatives don't

    Running Logos 7 latest (beta) version on Win 10

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    Rick Brannan (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 15 2015 7:40 AM

    NB.Mick:

    JH:

    I am currently reading through NA27 (Interlinear w/ GRAMCORD). When I right click on a Greek word and select the lemma from the drop down, then select BWS, it never returns results for Lemma in Passage. If I repeat this process from the ESV, it works correctly.

    Maybe only Logos Morphology works, and GRAMCORD etc. alternatives don't

    This is the case at present. No word (yet) on ability to support lemmas from other morphologies.

    Rick Brannan
    Data Wrangler, Faithlife
    My books in print

    Posts 661
    JH | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 15 2015 8:27 AM

    Rick Brannan (Faithlife):

    NB.Mick:

    JH:

    I am currently reading through NA27 (Interlinear w/ GRAMCORD). When I right click on a Greek word and select the lemma from the drop down, then select BWS, it never returns results for Lemma in Passage. If I repeat this process from the ESV, it works correctly.

    Maybe only Logos Morphology works, and GRAMCORD etc. alternatives don't

    This is the case at present. No word (yet) on ability to support lemmas from other morphologies.

    I don't quite understand the issue. The lemma is the same whether I type it in manually, choose it from the underlying text of the ESV, or populate it from the NA27. Isn't BWS running from the lemma that is displayed in the input box at the upper left of the tool? Why does the NA27 (without the interlinear) work with BWS, but not with the interlinear. What am I missing?

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    Rick Brannan (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 15 2015 12:02 PM

    JH:
    Isn't BWS running from the lemma that is displayed in the input box at the upper left of the tool?

    Actually, under the hood each lemma is tied to a morphological analysis because different analyses treat lemmatization differently. This is much more of a problem in Hebrew than in Greek.

    We do support some conversion between analyses; I've filed an issue with development to see if we can leverage that sort of conversion with this guide section as well.

    At present, what this means is that when the "Logos Greek Morphology" and "Logos Hebrew Morphology" flavor of lemmas are used, then Lemma in Passage functions as expected. Reverse interlinears use these morphologies, as do the Lexham Hebrew Bible, the Lexham Hebrew Interlinear, the SBLGNT (and interlinear), and the "Logos" flavors of NA27, UBS4, Westcott-Hort, Scrivener, Rahlfs LXX and Swete's LXX (plus some others, I'm sure, but I don't have the whole list available).

    Rick Brannan
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    NB.Mick | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 15 2015 12:22 PM

    Rick Brannan (Faithlife):
    the "Logos" flavors of NA27, UBS4, Westcott-Hort, Scrivener, Rahlfs LXX and Swete's LXX (plus some others, I'm sure, but I don't have the whole list available)

    going by a Reading List I happen to be familiar with, there's some three Rahlf's LXX versions with Logos morphology (the Logos LXX with Hebrew RI, the SESB LXX and the Lexham LXX Interlinear), two from Swete (LXX Swete with Hebrew RI, Lexham LXX Interlinear Swete), quite a number of TR editions in addition to Scrivener, Tischendorf's Novum Testamentum Graece and, more recently, of course two NA28 and one UBS5 edition. Just saying.

    Running Logos 7 latest (beta) version on Win 10

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    Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 19 2015 1:19 PM

    Rick,

    I've noticed several volumes seem to be missing from the "Lemma in Passage" tool, despite having many references to the Greek text. I've obviously not checked every passage in every commentary, but sampling suggests the following are missing.

    • Most of the Anchor Yale Bible series (all the NT?)
    • The whole NICNT series
    • The whole of Paideia series
    • Most of the Pillar series
    • On Matthew:
      • Raymond Brown's Birth of the Messiah.
      • Matthew: A Mentor Commentary
    • On Acts
      • Keener's Exegetical Commentary
    • On John
      • Wahlde's commentary

    All of the above discuss the Greek text, often in detail, so should be included if the algorithm/lookup service is working correctly.

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    Rick Brannan (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 19 2015 10:00 PM

    Hi Mark.

    Several of the volumes you mention above discuss Greek, but do it in transliteration, not Greek characters. The whole of NICNT uses transliteration; surprisingly (to me) so does much of the Anchor Yale series.

    Transliteration is a tough nut to crack (especially Hebrew). Not saying it'll never happen, but it didn't make the first cut of the tool.

    On which volumes get included, basically, everything classed as a commentary that has a string in Greek or Hebrew within a Bible milestone is intended. Not saying we haven't possibly missed volumes, but that's the goal.

    Rick Brannan
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    Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 19 2015 11:47 PM

    Rick Brannan (Faithlife):
    Transliteration is a tough nut to crack (especially Hebrew). Not saying it'll never happen, but it didn't make the first cut of the tool.

    Ah, OK. I hadn't realised transliteration was excluded for the time being. It would be good if that could be added, although I certainly understand the problems that different transliteration schemes pose.

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    MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Dec 20 2015 12:14 AM

    Another side effect of the generic transliteration rather than identification of the language ...?

    Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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    Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Dec 20 2015 12:55 AM

    MJ. Smith:

    Another side effect of the generic transliteration rather than identification of the language ...?

    No. It's a side effect of the multiplicity of transliteration schemes that are/have been in use, and the ambiguity of many of the simpler transliteration schemes, where a single English character could represent one of many Hebrew characters.

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