Quality Control: Missing Images and Diagrams in John Frame's "A History of Western Philosophy"

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This post has 29 Replies | 4 Followers

Posts 394
Adam Olean | Forum Activity | Posted: Wed, Dec 23 2015 11:16 AM

I'd like to draw the attention of Faithlife employees and any interested users to a discussion on the product page for John Frame's recently published A History of Western Philosophy. This page states, "Due to copyright restrictions, we are unable to include images with this resource." As discussed in the reviews section, however, it apparently doesn't make sense why all images and diagrams should be excluded from this resource by P&R Publishing or any other potential copyright holders. Josh Skinner apparently spoke with a "P&R rep" who "said that only 5 images were copyright issue. All diagrams should be included." I would be appreciative if Faithlife would seek to clarify and resolve any copyright issues and would then update A History of Western Philosophy with as many images and diagrams as they can so that it meets the standards of a "high quality" Logos edition. Frame's book, otherwise, looks like it'd be a great fit for Logos/Noet!

Posts 4
David M. O'Dowd | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 23 2015 12:02 PM

As one who has already purchased this Frame volume I would ask that all non-copyright-issue images and diagrams be added to a book update as quickly as possible. To do so certainly would be in accord with Logos/Faithlife's high standards.

Posts 4
Josh Skinner | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Dec 27 2015 12:21 PM

When I exchanged emails with customer service, the rep was unapologetic and seemed rather apathetic (including customer service ignoring follow up emails). The solution offered was to like it without images or cancel my prepub.  So I cancelled mine.  

Hopefully you can get farther than I did. This is a great book and would be a perfect resources in Logos format.

Posts 882
Myke Harbuck | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Dec 27 2015 12:40 PM

Adam Olean:

I'd like to draw the attention of Faithlife employees and any interested users to a discussion on the product page for John Frame's recently published A History of Western Philosophy. This page states, "Due to copyright restrictions, we are unable to include images with this resource." As discussed in the reviews section, however, it apparently doesn't make sense why all images and diagrams should be excluded from this resource by P&R Publishing or any other potential copyright holders. Josh Skinner apparently spoke with a "P&R rep" who "said that only 5 images were copyright issue. All diagrams should be included." I would be appreciative if Faithlife would seek to clarify and resolve any copyright issues and would then update A History of Western Philosophy with as many images and diagrams as they can so that it meets the standards of a "high quality" Logos edition. Frame's book, otherwise, looks like it'd be a great fit for Logos/Noet!

Couldnt agree more, Decided against purchasing it when I discovered the diagrams were missing. Pictures are not that important to me, but charts and diagrams aide tremendously in comprehension, esp on a volume this deep and wide. 

Myke Harbuck
Lead Pastor, www.ByronCity.Church
Adjunct Professor, Georgia Military College
Mac OS 10.13.6 High Sierra, Mid 2015 iMac, 2.5GHz i7, 32 gbRAM, 1tbSSD

Posts 394
Adam Olean | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 28 2015 8:55 AM

Thanks for your input, David, Josh, and Myke. I think it's good for Faithlife to hear from customers interested in this particular resource and perhaps even the quality of "Logos editions" in general. I'll probably wait a bit longer to hear from Faithlife before deciding whether or not to return my purchase.

Interestingly, using Amazon's "Look Inside" feature and comparing the table of contents to the print edition (pp. xi–xii), it appears that Faithlife excised the "Illustration Credits" (pp. 831–838/9?) from the back matter and the table of contents. Could anyone with a print copy confirm whether this is the case? I would rather Faithlife accurately represent the content that's there (e.g., text) than excise it all, even if there happen to be copyright limitations on several images. I hope that such editorial liberty in "Logos editions" is the exception, not the norm!

Posts 458
Robert Harner | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 28 2015 11:51 AM

Adam Olean:

"Illustration Credits" (pp. 831–838/9?) from the back matter and the table of contents. Could anyone with a print copy confirm whether this is the case?

They are on pp 831-838. P 831 lists "the eleven types of licenses involved," the majority from Wikimedia Commons.

Posts 394
Adam Olean | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 28 2015 2:33 PM

Robert Harner:

Adam Olean:

"Illustration Credits" (pp. 831–838/9?) from the back matter and the table of contents. Could anyone with a print copy confirm whether this is the case?

They are on pp 831-838. P 831 lists "the eleven types of licenses involved," the majority from Wikimedia Commons.

Thank you, Robert. That's helpful. Yes

Posts 394
Adam Olean | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jan 5 2016 10:26 AM

It's now after the holidays, so could we get some feedback from Faithlife employees on the images, diagrams, and "Illustration Credits" (pp. 831–838) that have been entirely excluded and/or excised from the "Logos edition" of John Frame's A History of Western Philosophy (as discussed in this thread and in the review section of the product page)? Are these things being looked into? Will they be addressed?

I would be grateful for any assistance you can offer.

Posts 12710
Forum MVP
Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jan 5 2016 10:37 AM

I've just sent a message to Faithlife to ask them to comment on this thread. I know that lots of the non-sales staff are still catching up after the Christmas/New Year break, but hopefully someone will get to this soon.

Posts 394
Adam Olean | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jan 5 2016 10:42 AM

Mark Barnes:

I've just sent a message to Faithlife to ask them to comment on this thread. I know that lots of the non-sales staff are still catching up after the Christmas/New Year break, but hopefully someone will get to this soon.

Thank you, Mark. I truly appreciate it! I assumed as much and am more than willing to patiently await a response. That said, I also wanted to make sure this thread doesn't disappear into forum oblivion.

Posts 125
Robert | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jan 5 2016 11:24 AM

Adam Olean:

It's now after the holidays, so could we get some feedback from Faithlife employees on the images, diagrams, and "Illustration Credits" (pp. 831–838) that have been entirely excluded and/or excised from the "Logos edition" of John Frame's A History of Western Philosophy (as discussed in this thread and in the review section of the product page)? Are these things being looked into? Will they be addressed?

I would be grateful for any assistance you can offer.

 

Also agree (own Logos resource). Thanks Adam for asking; and thanks Mark, for your help as an MVP. For an obviously academic resource, the photos omitted are regrettable, but negotiable; but IMO for a resource that may be required reading in an academic setting, diagrams are an absolute given, a must. Thanks.   

Grace and peace. <><  

Posts 829
LogosEmployee
Kyle G. Anderson | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jan 6 2016 1:03 PM

We've now gotten feedback from P&R. We can begin the process of including the images. At this point it's too early to give an exact date that work will be done. I'm hopeful it will be with in a month.

Posts 125
Robert | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jan 6 2016 2:26 PM

Kyle, thanks for the update and for your efforts! Grace and peace. <>< 

Posts 1850
Donnie Hale | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 7 2016 5:58 AM

Kyle G. Anderson:
We can begin the process of including the images.

Great news!!! Thanks for the follow-up.

-Donnie

Posts 394
Adam Olean | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 7 2016 10:19 AM

Kyle G. Anderson:

We've now gotten feedback from P&R. We can begin the process of including the images. At this point it's too early to give an exact date that work will be done. I'm hopeful it will be with in a month.

Thanks, Kyle! I am looking forward to the update. I assume it will include the excised "Illustration Credits," as well.

Posts 829
LogosEmployee
Kyle G. Anderson | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 8 2016 9:25 AM

Adam Olean:

Kyle G. Anderson:

We've now gotten feedback from P&R. We can begin the process of including the images. At this point it's too early to give an exact date that work will be done. I'm hopeful it will be with in a month.

Thanks, Kyle! I am looking forward to the update. I assume it will include the excised "Illustration Credits," as well.

Now that there are illustrations to credit it will most certainly be included.

Posts 4
David M. O'Dowd | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 8 2016 10:09 AM

Kyle, I want to add my thanks for pushing this issue through so quickly. Great responsiveness! I am most appreciative and look forward to the update.

Posts 4
Josh Skinner | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 15 2016 6:58 AM

Thanks Kyle.  I wish customer service would have said that this was an option instead of essentially telling me to like it without images or cancel my prepub.  I definitely would have been fine waiting for a resource update.  

I am very grateful that you guys have made this resource much better for those that got it!  Thanks again.

Josh

Posts 617
James McAdams | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 15 2016 7:12 AM

It's the only thing that stopped me from going for the prepub too. I bought it this morning, having spotted this thread.

Posts 1
Titus Buita | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Feb 17 2016 11:35 AM

Any updates on the illustrations issue? I'm debating between purchasing this in print or an electronic copy on Logos. Thanks!

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