Linux version of Logos Bible Software

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Posts 180
Steven Yu | Forum Activity | Posted: Fri, Jun 19 2009 3:58 AM

Once again, I am pushing foward for a Linux version of Logos, a lot of user are using Linux, and we have been struggling to break away from Windows, but Logos has always been the single software that require us to either dual boot or run a virtual machine with Linux OS.

Anyone share the same view?

"And you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free", John 8:32.
"你們必定認識真理,真理必定使你們自由", 約翰福音 8:3.

Posts 394
777 | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jun 19 2009 7:26 AM

Yes, I agree 100%.  I LOVE the Linux operating system and there are some really hard working people writing Bible study software for Linux, but it's not Logos.  I have a lot of Logos unlocks and the ONLY reason I run any Windows at all is for Logos.  I really wish that Logos had a reader for Linux that worked just like the Windows version does.  I keep dumping Windows for months at a time or resort to running Windows 2000 under VirtualBox so I can run Logos.  If Logos had a Linux front end, then I could toss Windows forever.  I just bought a new XP license yesterday to run LOGOS on machine with no XP license.  That's loot that I could have spent on LOGOS BOOKS.  And I really oftentimes find myself in a position wherein I do NOT want to buy anymore Logos products because they won't run on MY operating system.  They run on Bill's operating system.

I sort of get the feeling that Logos, the company and it's personnel, either think Linux is some weird hacker OS where nobody buys anything or they're afraid that Linux users are too small in number to justify writing a front end just for them.  So, write one in Java.  It certainly can't be any slower than the Windows front end is already.  If they did it in Java, then they only need one front end for Mac, Linux, and Windows.  Uhhhh.?  It's not like they can't afford to write new code.  The reader can't be rocket science inside.

I think the next time I get ticked at WIndows for anything and flush the install, I'll probably join up with one of the opensource Linux Bible software groups and help them by doing what I can to get better Linux Bible software.  It seems like Logos has decided that Linux is not their market and Windows/Mac is.  What's crazy is that the Mac front end should probably be breeze-city to port to Linux unless they used assembler to code it.  Lol - I doubt it. Big Smile

When the Linux Bible software gets "good enough", then Logos is going to see they waited too long.  Linux is FREE.  You don't have to enter codes to install it.  You can install it 10 times before lunch without having to call Bangladesh to get the OK to install it the 11th time because the video driver that you just downloaded from Windows update killed your install.  Just because the operating system is free doesn't mean you can't SELL software for it.  Nero sells burning software for Linux.

I need to finish this post so I can go buy some antivirus software for this new XP install.  That's MORE loot I can't use to unlock Logos books.  Then I'll need to buy a registry cleaner and a disk optimizer and various other doo-dads that WIndows requires to keep it all from coming unglued... but I won't be using that ca$h to buy LOGOS products.  I'd rather run Linux and send LOGOS all my money.

And they lived happily ever after.  The end.

 

Posts 1778
Donovan R. Palmer | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jun 19 2009 8:02 AM

MichaelMiles:
I sort of get the feeling that Logos, the company and it's personnel, either think Linux is some weird hacker OS where nobody buys anything or they're afraid that Linux users are too small in number to justify writing a front end just for them.  So, write one in Java.  It certainly can't be any slower than the Windows front end is already.  If they did it in Java, then they only need one front end for Mac, Linux, and Windows.  Uhhhh.?  It's not like they can't afford to write new code.  The reader can't be rocket science inside.

I have read in a number of places that Mac is about 10% of the market share and Linux is 1%.You can look at this website to dig around for what you want: http://marketshare.hitslink.com/operating-system-market-share.aspx?qprid=8  Of course this does not take into account demographics. For example, we know that amongst youth and students Macs are more common than opposed to enterprise situations.  I work with young people and it seems that they all have or want to have a Mac. I think Logos is very smart getting into the Mac market because tomorrow's Bible scholars are amongst today's young people.

After 12+ years of Windows, I moved to the Mac platform because it is based on BSD Unix.  The last thing I was holding out for was a Mac version of Logos, so I empathize with your comments.  So since I like BSD, for similar reasons I like Linux (though I prefer FreeBSD over Linux) I suspect the market gurus at Logos would do a Linux version if they could figure out how to make money at it. As a Mac user, it has taken forever to get the Mac version out and understandably so at version 1.1.x, it is nothing like the Windows version.  From a casual observation, it is hard to see how Logos is going to develop any time soon a Linux version unless they have a few secrets (and a truck load of cash) up their sleeves.

As far as using Java, I would have to say that I have yet to use a Java built application that I really, really liked. This is subjective, but it seems that by using Java there are certain compromises to really integrating into the host system.  I could be wrong about this, but that is my impression. So personally, I hope they don't turn to Java.

All this said, I do like Linux and have used it extensively.  My favourite distro is SUSE, but have many friends that swear by the Debian based ubuntu. If Windows 7 turns out to be another bomb, I kind of expect that we will see more users defect to Mac and Linux, and if that happens, the market share of Linux may get on the radar of the Logos business plan.

Logos for Mac - Wiki Page and FAQ

Posts 394
777 | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jun 19 2009 2:11 PM

Donovan R. Palmer:

I have read in a number of places that Mac is about 10% of the market share and Linux is 1%.You can look at this website to dig around for what you want: http://marketshare.hitslink.com/operating-system-market-share.aspx?qprid=8  Of course this does not take into account demographics. For example, we know that amongst youth and students Macs are more common than opposed to enterprise situations.  I work with young people and it seems that they all have or want to have a Mac. I think Logos is very smart getting into the Mac market because tomorrow's Bible scholars are amongst today's young people.

After 12+ years of Windows, I moved to the Mac platform because it is based on BSD Unix.  The last thing I was holding out for was a Mac version of Logos, so I empathize with your comments.  So since I like BSD, for similar reasons I like Linux (though I prefer FreeBSD over Linux) I suspect the market gurus at Logos would do a Linux version if they could figure out how to make money at it. As a Mac user, it has taken forever to get the Mac version out and understandably so at version 1.1.x, it is nothing like the Windows version.  From a casual observation, it is hard to see how Logos is going to develop any time soon a Linux version unless they have a few secrets (and a truck load of cash) up their sleeves.

As far as using Java, I would have to say that I have yet to use a Java built application that I really, really liked. This is subjective, but it seems that by using Java there are certain compromises to really integrating into the host system.  I could be wrong about this, but that is my impression. So personally, I hope they don't turn to Java.

All this said, I do like Linux and have used it extensively.  My favourite distro is SUSE, but have many friends that swear by the Debian based ubuntu. If Windows 7 turns out to be another bomb, I kind of expect that we will see more users defect to Mac and Linux, and if that happens, the market share of Linux may get on the radar of the Logos business plan.

I ~almost~ bought a Mac, but if I had done that I'd have dumped Logos and bought Accordance... or at least I'd have shelved my Logos stuff until Logos had a way of using it on the Mac.

As far as Java goes, I feel as you do,  but I also feel that a Java front end beats trying WINE every time a new version of WINE comes out just to see if Logos finally works with it.  Maybe one of the folks at Logos could set up an Ubuntu box and try setting up Logos under WINE and see what is causing their software not to install and/or run correctly and CHANGE it.  It's not like they have to buy Linux or WINE or anything.

In actuality, I'd prefer a BSD front end as well.  I've been an active OpenBSD user for quite a few years now.  Theo is quite an interesting personality. Big Smile

So one can only hope that WIndows 7 bombs and Steve Ballmer goes into a chair throwing tirade... then perhaps we can get our Linux version.  If the economy continues to stay in first gear Linux may get a boost as well.

I have my overbuilt XP box for the time being.  Vista Business didn't ever ring my bell, so XP is going to have to do for now.

Posts 180
Steven Yu | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jun 20 2009 2:53 AM

Here are some of the linux user discussion in the Ubuntu forum

http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=442973

"And you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free", John 8:32.
"你們必定認識真理,真理必定使你們自由", 約翰福音 8:3.

Posts 1223
LogosEmployee
Bob Pritchett | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jun 20 2009 1:33 PM

The decision is simply a business one; at this point we don't have any evidence that there's a significant market for a Linux version, which doesn't make the investment worth it. We don't have massive margins, and developing on a new platform costs a pretty large percentage of what developing on the first one costs; I imagine we'd need to see consumer (not server or business -- we don't sell there) marketshare for Linux reach 8% before we could justify the cost.

The easiest solution might be to get our software running through things like CrossOver:

http://www.codeweavers.com/compatibility/browse/name/?app_id=321

 

 

Posts 180
Steven Yu | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jun 20 2009 3:09 PM

Bob Pritchett:
The easiest solution might be to get our software running through things like CrossOver:

Agree, me and other linux user have been doing a lot of testing and debugging in both CrossOver and WINE to see if we can get ver 3 working, but so far nothing.  NOt sure whether is the IE feature used in the logos, or some xmlt rendering issue.

"And you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free", John 8:32.
"你們必定認識真理,真理必定使你們自由", 約翰福音 8:3.

Posts 16618
Forum MVP
Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jun 20 2009 6:21 PM

MichaelMiles:

So one can only hope that WIndows 7 bombs and Steve Ballmer goes into a chair throwing tirade... then perhaps we can get our Linux version.  If the economy continues to stay in first gear Linux may get a boost as well.

I have my overbuilt XP box for the time being.  Vista Business didn't ever ring my bell, so XP is going to have to do for now.

Windows 7 is much better than Vista and close to XP in performance and resource needs, so it is not going to drive a move toward Linux! Neither will the economy  provide a boost, except that Linux distros improve their installation and provide an overall interface that functions in ways similar to Windows! It seems to be getting there with Ubuntu.

 

Dave
===

Windows PC, Android phone

Posts 1416
Chris Roberts | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jun 20 2009 6:38 PM

"If the economy continues to stay in first gear Linux may get a boost as well."

If the economy causes software markets to sour, Logos will likely feel the impact long before Microsoft.

Posts 394
777 | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jun 20 2009 6:57 PM

Bob Pritchett:

The decision is simply a business one; at this point we don't have any evidence that there's a significant market for a Linux version, which doesn't make the investment worth it. We don't have massive margins, and developing on a new platform costs a pretty large percentage of what developing on the first one costs; I imagine we'd need to see consumer (not server or business -- we don't sell there) marketshare for Linux reach 8% before we could justify the cost.

The easiest solution might be to get our software running through things like CrossOver:

http://www.codeweavers.com/compatibility/browse/name/?app_id=321

 

 

 

And you have evidence that there are more Kindle users than Linux users?  What market share does the Kindle have?  What market share does the Kindle have amongst Logos employees?  Likely more than the Logos employee Linux share, I'll bet.

Big Smile

 

Posts 394
777 | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jun 20 2009 7:20 PM

MichaelMiles:

And you have evidence that there are more Kindle users than Linux users?  What market share does the Kindle have?  What market share does the Kindle have amongst Logos employees?  Likely more than the Logos employee Linux share, I'll bet.

Big Smile

Oh, lookie here: http://arstechnica.com/open-source/news/2007/11/linux-on-amazons-kindle-e-book-reader.ars

The Kindle runs LINUX.  nice.

 

Posts 13
Colby E. Kinser | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jun 21 2009 4:19 PM

I would love to see a secure online version. That would work on ANY OS, and could be hardened to protect the licenses of the unlocked resources, which is where Logos' legimate money is. Or even have a small, easily-ported agent that runs on various OSes to protect the licenses, if necessary. The world is moving to the cloud, and bible.logos.com is a step in the right direction. You've obviously got the talent for usable web apps.

Posts 394
777 | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jun 21 2009 4:58 PM

ColbyEKinser:

I would love to see a secure online version. That would work on ANY OS, and could be hardened to protect the licenses of the unlocked resources, which is where Logos' legimate money is. Or even have a small, easily-ported agent that runs on various OSes to protect the licenses, if necessary. The world is moving to the cloud, and bible.logos.com is a step in the right direction. You've obviously got the talent for usable web apps.

Then Logos could just tie what you've unlocked to your online version account and they could handle license access all on their end.  This would work in my case, but I'd rather have a native Linux version ~OR~ a Windows version that actually ran under Linux.  This is a good idea - Logos could also sell SUBSCRIPTIONS on a timed basis and make money on this from folks that maybe don't want to sink a house payment into the Gold version but may want to try it for a while - sort of like renting Logos.

It'd be nice if Logos set up an Ubuntu machine and tried their own code under Linux to see how terrible it is to deal with rather than just sending us Linux folks that are already loyal PAYING customers off with a mention of codeweavers and a wave buh-bye.  Maybe THEY could fix the offending part of their code (hey, they have access to it) and publish HOW THEY GOT IT TO INSTALL & RUN UNDER LINUX.  I bet there's at least one geek in their programming department that could make short work of this and we could all move on... happily.  Certainly Logos could score some geek credibility if they could muster up some old-school propeller-head search and fix "CAN-DO" type testing and programming.

Eh?

 

Posts 394
777 | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jun 21 2009 5:02 PM

Ubuntu is awesome.  The folks at Canonical make the folks at Microsoft look like newbies at tweaking an operating system.

Posts 1223
LogosEmployee
Bob Pritchett | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jun 25 2009 6:48 PM

MichaelMiles:

It'd be nice if Logos set up an Ubuntu machine and tried their own code under Linux to see how terrible it is to deal with rather than just sending us Linux folks that are already loyal PAYING customers off with a mention of codeweavers and a wave buh-bye.  Maybe THEY could fix the offending part of their code (hey, they have access to it) and publish HOW THEY GOT IT TO INSTALL & RUN UNDER LINUX. 

But isn't the beauty of open source the fact that many eyes make all bugs shallow? I'm surprised that the community hasn't risen up and gotten WINE/CodeWeavers working for everything! :-)

Sorry, I couldn't help it... I don't know that we actually have that much deep Linux programming experience inhouse, and I also suspect that the problems relate more to our use of IE as a report display engine than to code we wrote. Add on to that the fact that we're working on a completely new platform for the next release, and investing our time in getting 3.x to work on Linux doesn't seem like a good investment.

Posts 394
777 | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jun 28 2009 10:03 PM

Bob Pritchett:

But isn't the beauty of open source the fact that many eyes make all bugs shallow? I'm surprised that the community hasn't risen up and gotten WINE/CodeWeavers working for everything! :-)

Sorry, I couldn't help it... I don't know that we actually have that much deep Linux programming experience inhouse, and I also suspect that the problems relate more to our use of IE as a report display engine than to code we wrote. Add on to that the fact that we're working on a completely new platform for the next release, and investing our time in getting 3.x to work on Linux doesn't seem like a good investment.

 

Yeah, but that only works if we have the source code.  But I know that you know that.  <SMILE>

 

I can appreciate your point on wanting to get the new platform done.  Perhaps after that settles down you all can take a look in house with WINE and your source code and see if you can figure out how to make it fly for us Linux users.  Hey, we LOVE Logos - we just don't care for Windows.

 

...Or, you can send me your source code and I'll take a look.  LOL.

 

 

Posts 180
Steven Yu | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jun 28 2009 10:15 PM

And if Logos ever need people to do beta test in WINE, Codeweaver or Linux, we are here to help!  Without the sourcecode it is really hard for us to see what is going on in the background, we have report most of the error message we got to Wine and Codeweaver Application, but we just can't get enough of people to support our request for the program mers to look in to the application. :-(

"And you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free", John 8:32.
"你們必定認識真理,真理必定使你們自由", 約翰福音 8:3.

Posts 59
Christopher S Macy | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jun 29 2009 6:27 AM

I am a user using Windows 7 and Linux also I use to be a programmer for windows. 

I say this because I have to agree with BP here. They would have to hire more programmers who had the skills needed in Linux programming to take on this task of getting Libronix 3.x working. Also, Libronix utalizes the IE rendering engine, last I checked Linux does not support IE and neither do Linux users.

Now I love Linux and would love to see Libronix running on it, but lets not be selfish. Linux users will ALWAYS be the minority in the OS realm. That is just a fact of life. Logos is a company who has to make a return in with their product otherwise we would not get any more version updates.

So asking for Libronix on Linux right now is a bit absurd.

Posts 84
Nigel Cunningham | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jun 30 2009 2:32 AM

Hi Bob.

Another Linux user here (Libronix via VMWare).

If you used one of the GUI toolkits like QT that's crossplatform, perhaps that would help you a lot?

Regards,

Nigel (Logos/Libronix user since I started theological college in 1997)

Posts 394
777 | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jun 30 2009 6:41 AM

Christopher S Macy:

I am a user using Windows 7 and Linux also I use to be a programmer for windows. 

I say this because I have to agree with BP here. They would have to hire more programmers who had the skills needed in Linux programming to take on this task of getting Libronix 3.x working. Also, Libronix utalizes the IE rendering engine, last I checked Linux does not support IE and neither do Linux users.

Now I love Linux and would love to see Libronix running on it, but lets not be selfish. Linux users will ALWAYS be the minority in the OS realm. That is just a fact of life. Logos is a company who has to make a return in with their product otherwise we would not get any more version updates.

So asking for Libronix on Linux right now is a bit absurd.

 

Ok.  BTW, your avatar is absurd.

I used to code assembler for applications that I sold to the Canadian government.  This project is not hard.  It may not be easy, but it's not that hard.  Logos is not too awfully far away from running under WINE and Logos could try it and see where it hiccups better than anybody else could.

Thanks for the wet blanket.

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