Linux version of Logos Bible Software

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This post has 545 Replies | 33 Followers

Posts 403
777 | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jun 30 2009 6:49 AM

Nigel Cunningham:

Hi Bob.

Another Linux user here (Libronix via VMWare).

If you used one of the GUI toolkits like QT that's crossplatform, perhaps that would help you a lot?

Regards,

Nigel (Logos/Libronix user since I started theological college in 1997)

 

I like the way you think. 

They could also try http://www.wxwidgets.org/ for cross-platform coding.

 

Posts 66
Christopher S Macy | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jun 30 2009 7:44 AM

Lol, Mike, Bill the Cat is not absurd!

You are right, it would not be that hard to put logos onto Linux. However (in the voice of Snape), that would require programmers for Linux and as BP has pointed out they dont have them! So you want Logos to hire a few programers at about 50k per year each so 1% of their market can have Logos on Linux when we can use it via VMware?

Dont get me wrong, I would love it if Logos did put Libronix on Linux, but it just does not make sense for them to do that right now.

I dont want to discourge you all from advocating for this, but having both sides of the coin expressed is good.

Posts 403
777 | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jun 30 2009 2:29 PM

Christopher S Macy:

Lol, Mike, Bill the Cat is not absurd!

You are right, it would not be that hard to put logos onto Linux. However (in the voice of Snape), that would require programmers for Linux and as BP has pointed out they dont have them! So you want Logos to hire a few programers at about 50k per year each so 1% of their market can have Logos on Linux when we can use it via VMware?

Dont get me wrong, I would love it if Logos did put Libronix on Linux, but it just does not make sense for them to do that right now.

I dont want to discourge you all from advocating for this, but having both sides of the coin expressed is good.

Howdy Christopher!

It would require ZERO Linux programmers to set up an Ubuntu machine and install WINE.  After that, all they need is to see why their WINDOWS code is not fully functioning under WINE.  It may be as simple as needing one or two native DLLs installed in WINE to make it all work just dandy A-OK.  Logos is in a far better place to figure this out than ANYONE because they have the source code and can identify the places and reasons that their Windows code hangs under WINE.  It's not hard.  It involves no Linux programming.

I'll agree that it would involve some work, but I don't think that anyone is going to break a nail or anything, so there's no need to concern ourselves with OSHA and there's no need to hire any Linux programmers.  We're not writing any Linux code to get Windows code to run under WINE, are we?  We may have to tweak our WINDOWS code a bit to get it to run under WINE, but we are not looking to change WINE code to get it to run, but rather possibly modifying our WINDOWS code to get it to run.

Logos has the "black box", since they have their source code.

 

Posts 204
Steven Yu | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jun 30 2009 4:37 PM

Personally I would like to see Libronix rewritten in either JAVA (use JDM for text analysis) or MONO compatible dot net technologies; this will guarantee the compatibility issue once for all.

"And you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free", John 8:32.
"你們必定認識真理,真理必定使你們自由", 約翰福音 8:3.

Posts 99
Bruce Fraser | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jun 30 2009 7:30 PM

MikeM:
So, write one in Java.  It certainly can't be any slower than the Windows front end is already.  If they did it in Java, then they only need one front end for Mac, Linux, and Windows.  Uhhhh.?  It's not like they can't afford to write new code.  The reader can't be rocket science inside.

I'm not a computer programmer, so take this with a grain of salt... Your comment about writing a Bible study program "can't be rocket science" shows an abysmal lack of awareness about what it takes to design and write computer code. Yes, I would venture to say that the craft which goes into Logos / WordSearch / Accordance / etc. would be about the equivalent of programming the navigation system for a rocket.

Posts 403
777 | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jul 2 2009 1:49 AM

BruceFraser:

MikeM:
So, write one in Java.  It certainly can't be any slower than the Windows front end is already.  If they did it in Java, then they only need one front end for Mac, Linux, and Windows.  Uhhhh.?  It's not like they can't afford to write new code.  The reader can't be rocket science inside.

I'm not a computer programmer, so take this with a grain of salt... Your comment about writing a Bible study program "can't be rocket science" shows an abysmal lack of awareness about what it takes to design and write computer code. Yes, I would venture to say that the craft which goes into Logos / WordSearch / Accordance / etc. would be about the equivalent of programming the navigation system for a rocket.

You're not a computer programmer, yet you're an expert.

You must be like the old guys that sit around at the park talking about how this ought to be done and how that ought to be done, yet none of these old guys has anything and never got anywhere in their life.  Or, you might be a consultant.

Take this with a grain of salt.... why would I bother to listen to someone's opinion when that someone has no idea of what they're talking about?  At least you're HONEST about it.

Thanks for the uninformed personal attack.  Now get off my lawn.

Surprise

 

Posts 204
Steven Yu | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jul 2 2009 3:06 AM

Ok, I think you two need to cool off a little bit.  We don't want to have an argument here.

Right now I think its best for those who have technical background to continue testing Libronix under WINE and Codeweaver, and report all the finding on their application support knowledge base, or discussion forum, as well as sharing the finding to the software engineer in Logos.  Make sure all the testing environment are well documented

As for the non technical personal, certainly raise your voice to Logos for a Linux version, and put down Linux version of Libronix on your pray list.

Currently the best solution of running Libronix is under a virtualization software like VMware, or VirtualBox, and a copy of Windows!  Both of this software have excellent documentation on how to setup, if anyone need any help, please post here, I am more than happy to give a helping hand.

"And you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free", John 8:32.
"你們必定認識真理,真理必定使你們自由", 約翰福音 8:3.

Posts 32
Colby E. Kinser | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jul 2 2009 7:56 AM

Perhaps the Libronix folks would be willing to sign a non-disclosure with an experienced, trustworthy open source developer to do the Wine debugging with the Libronix source code. You retain the intellectual property, you don't incur extra expenses to Logos, and you get the Linux/Wine expertise.

I personally would be willing to join others in donating $50 each for the developer who gets Libronix 3.x to work well in Wine. I'd much rather put my money into that than in retaining a Windows license with every Linux installation. Libronix is the only reason I keep a Windows license, and in fact the only reason I run a VM.

Still more, I'd prefer a web-accessible way to access my Libronix resources.

Posts 1928
Donovan R. Palmer | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jul 2 2009 9:08 AM

ColbyEKinser:
I personally would be willing to join others in donating $50 each for the developer who gets Libronix 3.x to work well in Wine. I'd much rather put my money into that than in retaining a Windows license with every Linux installation. Libronix is the only reason I keep a Windows license, and in fact the only reason I run a VM.

This sort of sounds like a good case for pre-pub for a wine version of Logos... interesting idea.

The trouble is how much will it cost to maintain or support it, particularly as new versions of Logos software come out. Presumably since Logos also relies on Internet Explorer, if IE is not part of the WINE stuff, this will also have to be developed, maintained with new versions and supported.

Posts 46
Dale Durnell, Retired | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jul 2 2009 9:21 AM

I am reminded of a comment, years ago, by one of your competitors when asked why they didn't program for the Mac. His response was "we'd lose our shirts." When the next person asked why they didn't program for Linus, his response was "see above."

I have no desire for you to "lose your shirt" Bob, I'm too heavily invested in the Logos software to ever want to change to another program. I'm finally running a 64 bit Vista laptop with the LDLS installed (now that was a trick migrating over to that new OS).

As I'm also entrenched in the Windows arena and have no desire to move to another vehicle -- I would argue that you need to focus on 4.0, then bring the Mac version up to speed with that version.

Just my two cents from Eastern Oklahoma where I now make my home.

Dale

Blessings,

Dale Durnell

Coming to you from Henryetta Oklahoma (45 miles south of Tulsa, and 85 miles east of OKC)

 

Posts 67
Brian Whalen | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jul 2 2009 9:23 AM

Trying to make money on Linux software is tough business, so many Linux users insist on free software, which presents a revenue problem for software developers, unless they charge heftily for support, or make money another way.

Brian Whalen

http://www.mcnazarene.com

Posts 3648
Floyd Johnson | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jul 2 2009 9:24 AM

MikeM:

You must be like the old guys that sit around at the park talking about how this ought to be done and how that ought to be done, yet none of these old guys has anything and never got anywhere in their life.  Or, you might be a consultant.

 

I am sorry, but I find that offensive.  I spend half of my ministry working with "the old guys".  They have got somewhere with there lives - they are smart, they are thinkers; but they have accomplished what they needed to accomplish.  If you have an OSHER (http://www.osherfoundation.org/) program near you, visit one.  These old guys are still studying (astronomy, biology, art, religion, writing, quantum mechanics, etc.) and they have accomplished quite a bit - in education, industry, and at home. 

Our church's second service is at a senior living complex near where we are located - it is a blessing to minister to these people.  They are often more excited about their faith than those in our regular morning service. 

I praise the Lord for "the old guys" - they were responsible for bringing the faith to our generation -

Yours because His,

Floyd

PS  Lest you think I am one of those "old guys" that knows nothing, be aware that I spent the greatest part of my career in the computer industry.  I am not yet an "old guy" - but pastor a small church in upstate New York preaching the word of God regularly to our two congregations.  I only have accomplished nothing when I compare myself to what God has accomplished in my life.

Blessings,
Floyd

Pastor-Patrick.blogspot.com

Posts 403
777 | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jul 6 2009 12:22 AM

BrianWhalen:

Trying to make money on Linux software is tough business, so many Linux users insist on free software, which presents a revenue problem for software developers, unless they charge heftily for support, or make money another way.

 

Logos makes money on unlocks - not on their reader/search software.

 

Posts 403
777 | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jul 6 2009 12:30 AM

Floyd Johnson:

MikeM:

You must be like the old guys that sit around at the park talking about how this ought to be done and how that ought to be done, yet none of these old guys has anything and never got anywhere in their life.  Or, you might be a consultant.

 

I am sorry, but I find that offensive.  I spend half of my ministry working with "the old guys".  They have got somewhere with there lives - they are smart, they are thinkers; but they have accomplished what they needed to accomplish.  If you have an OSHER (http://www.osherfoundation.org/) program near you, visit one.  These old guys are still studying (astronomy, biology, art, religion, writing, quantum mechanics, etc.) and they have accomplished quite a bit - in education, industry, and at home. 

Our church's second service is at a senior living complex near where we are located - it is a blessing to minister to these people.  They are often more excited about their faith than those in our regular morning service. 

I praise the Lord for "the old guys" - they were responsible for bringing the faith to our generation -

Yours because His,

Floyd

PS  Lest you think I am one of those "old guys" that knows nothing, be aware that I spent the greatest part of my career in the computer industry.  I am not yet an "old guy" - but pastor a small church in upstate New York preaching the word of God regularly to our two congregations.  I only have accomplished nothing when I compare myself to what God has accomplished in my life.

I'm sorry that you are offended, BUT if it's true, it's true.  I have respect for older folks, but not necessarily older folks that are "experts" on everything yet never got anyplace in life.  That doesn't mean that I have no compassion for them, it's just that I don't intend to take any advice from them.

If you were a young person starting in business would you go to the most successful businessperson around for advice, or would you go to the park and listen to the old guys that never got anyplace?

Try to rightly divide what someone is talking about and stay focused on what is being said.  I did not compare the person that was trying to light a fire under my backside in a personal flame with every old person.  You erroneously took it there.  Go imagine that I said other things now.

 

 

Posts 9945
George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jul 6 2009 1:52 AM

MikeM:

BrianWhalen:

Trying to make money on Linux software is tough business, so many Linux users insist on free software, which presents a revenue problem for software developers, unless they charge heftily for support, or make money another way.

 

Logos makes money on unlocks - not on their reader/search software.

 

In one sense this is the chicken and egg situation since one is useless without the other.  Since, however, Logos' income is tied to the sale of resources, extra expense in the development of a marginal OS is likely to be down the drain.

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

Posts 3648
Floyd Johnson | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jul 6 2009 8:08 AM

MikeM:
or would you go to the park and listen to the old guys that never got anyplace?

Your continued insults tell me more about you, than about them.  End of discussion!!

Floyd

Blessings,
Floyd

Pastor-Patrick.blogspot.com

Posts 9945
George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jul 6 2009 9:16 AM

Floyd Johnson:

MikeM:
or would you go to the park and listen to the old guys that never got anyplace?

Your continued insults tell me more about you, than about them.  End of discussion!!

Floyd

Peace, Floyd.  I think the two of you are talking about different groups.  You are thinking of retired persons in retirement homes while he is thinking more of homeless persons who never retired because they never really did anything.

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

Posts 4
Andrew J. Allcock | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jul 7 2009 9:11 AM

Erm...Is it time to think about possible reasons behind the question?

1) As a minister I have been using the Logos Scholar's Library for a number of years and find that it has been a superb investment. I want to continue to benefit from that investment.

2) Here in the UK a high proportion of Christians in ministry are ditching or have already ditched Windows for moral as well as technical reasons - I would suspect that the proportions of Christians (core market for Logos?) using non-Windows operating systems is higher than the general statistics might suggest. I use Ubuntu Linux and only keep Windows at all for occasional use.

3) ESword is free and has an expanding library and has tempted more than one of my colleagues in ministry away from Logos. GnomeSword is the Ubuntu version of ESword. ESword also has a platform-neutral online version.

Logos cannot afford to ignore Linux any longer.

Andrew

Posts 1921
Mark | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jul 7 2009 9:26 AM

AndrewJAllcock:
Logos cannot afford to ignore Linux any longer.

I am not an expert in the ins and outs of business decisions, but I do hope Logos is following this discussion, because I believe, Andrew, you have a good point.  In Poland where we have lived the past 12 years, I also have seen many many ditch MS in favor of open source.  These times make me harp back to the olden days when Logos was competing with others such as STEP and Bible Companion etc.  And Logos won out because of wise decision making.  I think others did not see what was coming on the horizon and lost the market and in some cases, even folded.

Logos has a superior product.  But in a world of fast changing technology, a company on top could find its way on the bottom very quickly.  And none of us with our investment in Libronix, want to see that.

It will be of no surprise to me at all if in the future, open source is more popular than MS.  It all depends on decisions MS makes.  But most of the world outside North America seem to be moving towards open source.  Here in the USA, there seems to be much talk of moving towards cloud computing.  I still dont see it being popular around the globe.  Cloud computing means people in the Mid East who want to access Libronix on line may have extreme difficulty.  People in China or Burma or other places...even in poorer regions where there is no cloud...the market for Logos would either disappear or never develop.

Posts 1928
Donovan R. Palmer | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jul 7 2009 9:33 AM

AndrewJAllcock:
Logos cannot afford to ignore Linux any longer.

Can you give more than anecdotal evidence? The trouble is, most of the surveys out there put the Linux userbase in general at 1% worldwide. It might even be less if only Christian users is taken into account.  It might be higher or lower in the UK. Then whatever this Christian user base is, a smaller percentage would ever consider buying Logos Bible software.

Even at 1%, the question is can Logos even break even on the development of a Linux version of its software with that small of a market. If it can't, then it will have to subsidize it. I would assume this is the case and is why Logos appears to be ignoring it. (purely speculation)

FWIW, the same reports put the Mac userbase at 10% and the Windows user base at 90%.

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