Personnel changes at Faithlife

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This post has 237 Replies | 19 Followers

Posts 5262
Dan Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jan 10 2016 9:13 AM

Every story has two sides.... and every person also has a right to a private life... Now the accusation if completely true would be damning and show lack of integrity. But as Bob explained it, it seemed harmless venting in poor taste. Some people like fart jokes some of us find them vulgar and in poor taste. But if an employee in his own sphere wishes to tell them, he shouldn't be penalized for bad taste. In common business policy the customer is always right, but what the customer expects can often be unreasonable. I want better offline capability for the mobile apps. I have been vocal about it, I know one developer who is frustrated at my repeated mentioning of it. Would it bother me if I heard he tweeted something nasty about me in venting to friends. Not really, even if he went off on what personally would feel a not ok attack on my sexuality, again his personal time and private account. 

-Dan

PS: I am in no way trying to accuse said person of any involvement in this alleged matter, just using him and myself. Knowing I could well be an example of someone who might frustrate someone enough to need to vent.

Posts 959
Yasmin Stephen | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jan 10 2016 9:54 AM

MJ. Smith:

"Some customers, especially pastors and those involved in ministry, can be extremely rude/condescending." That I can well believe, having seen it often enough right here. It was very disconcerting when I first started frequenting the forums but now it's just par for the course, which is sad.

Posts 785
JRS | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jan 10 2016 10:23 AM

Hmmmm, let's compare ... human sales force v. online sales:

does exactly what it is instructed, without error       winner: online sales

works long hours, never late for work        winner: online sales

one time training cost with minimal ongoing maintenance costs     winner: online sales

no salary           winner: online sales

no health insurance costs per the [anything but] Affordable Care Act    winner: online sales

no 401k costs           winner: online sales

no cappuccino, pop, &etc. costs         winner: online sales

no whining [incl. via Glassdoor]        winner: online sales

no paid vacation, no holidays, no personal days off      winner: online sales

no misc. HR overhead costs         winner: online sales

From a human perspective it's a brutal assessment, yet, survival is priority no. 1 for any business.  And if significant revenues can be saved and used to boost the viability of a small company ... well, it is only a matter of time until even the most kind-hearted, Christian employer will be forced to switch from flesh and blood to bits and bytes.  We had to say goodbye to buggy whips, elevator operators, carbon paper, slide rules, paper telephone books, and so forth, too.  My guess is, for the foreseeable future, there will always be one or two, maybe a few, sales people standing by, ready to take your call.  However, like it or not, the world moves on.

How blessed is the one whom Thou dost choose, and bring near to Thee(Psa 65:4a)

Posts 161
David Roberts | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jan 10 2016 8:10 PM

Thank you for your reply Dan.

Posts 197
Stephen Terlizzi | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jan 10 2016 8:22 PM

JRS:

From a human perspective it's a brutal assessment, yet, survival is priority no. 1 for any business.  And if significant revenues can be saved and used to boost the viability of a small company ... well, it is only a matter of time until even the most kind-hearted, Christian employer will be forced to switch from flesh and blood to bits and bytes.  We had to say goodbye to buggy whips, elevator operators, carbon paper, slide rules, paper telephone books, and so forth, too.  My guess is, for the foreseeable future, there will always be one or two, maybe a few, sales people standing by, ready to take your call.  However, like it or not, the world moves on.

I would agree if the Sales team are only order-takers; however, if they explain the products, facilitate the customer getting to a purchase decision, etc., then they add a value that is sometimes difficult to deliver with online sales alone. Unfortunately, I did not see much of that from my Logos sales encounters – maybe I had the wrong sales representatives. 

Nevertheless, just moving to online sales doesn't instantly generate sales. There needs to be an increase in marketing programs to attract, educate, and convince shoppers to buy. Faithlife's new 30 day training series is an good example – they are showing new resources through actual usage. I have already bought new resources because of this video series. Faithlife will need to continue to create these programs and that costs money, too.

Just my humble opinion.

Agape,

Steve

Posts 523
Fasil | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jan 10 2016 9:08 PM

Stephen Terlizzi:

JRS:

From a human perspective it's a brutal assessment, yet, survival is priority no. 1 for any business.  And if significant revenues can be saved and used to boost the viability of a small company ... well, it is only a matter of time until even the most kind-hearted, Christian employer will be forced to switch from flesh and blood to bits and bytes.  We had to say goodbye to buggy whips, elevator operators, carbon paper, slide rules, paper telephone books, and so forth, too.  My guess is, for the foreseeable future, there will always be one or two, maybe a few, sales people standing by, ready to take your call.  However, like it or not, the world moves on.

I would agree if the Sales team are only order-takers; however, if they explain the products, facilitate the customer getting to a purchase decision, etc., then they add a value that is sometimes difficult to deliver with online sales alone. Unfortunately, I did not see much of that from my Logos sales encounters – maybe I had the wrong sales representatives. 

Nevertheless, just moving to online sales doesn't instantly generate sales. There needs to be an increase in marketing programs to attract, educate, and convince shoppers to buy. Faithlife's new 30 day training series is an good example – they are showing new resources through actual usage. I have already bought new resources because of this video series. Faithlife will need to continue to create these programs and that costs money, too.

Just my humble opinion.

Agape,

Steve

👍 It's time for FL to make changes. Please again remove the current method. Whatever sales you have make it online like Amazon. Thank you!

Posts 235
C M | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jan 10 2016 10:15 PM

Stephen Terlizzi:

Nevertheless, just moving to online sales doesn't instantly generate sales. There needs to be an increase in marketing programs to attract, educate, and convince shoppers to buy. Faith life's new 30 day training series is an good example – they are showing new resources through actual usage...Faithlife will need to continue to create these programs and that costs money, too.  Just my humble opinion. 

You may be on to something. Products will drive sales. Faithlife needs to focus and speed up contracting and digitalizing the millions of religious books (old and new) from around the world to Logos customers, waiting to snap them up. Newcomers will be added, small libraries will become big, large libraries will become bigger.

While they are at it, they should consider creating new bundles and repackaging some current packages. They should, even, consider having a Customer’s Cafeteria Package (I think I can come up with some guidelines, if Bob is interested). It could be an annual sale or something fixed.

 

Faithlife is in the season of change. Why not change for the good of all (Faithlife/Logos customers) and the better (variety/choice)? Faithlife wants to generate funds? Books, books, books, and millions of books!

 

Trust me Bob, “there is gold, in them” books. 

Posts 235
C M | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 11 2016 4:46 AM

"Some customers, especially pastors and those involved in ministry, can be extremely rude/condescending." That I can well believe, having seen it often enough right here. It was very disconcerting when I first started frequenting the forums but now it's just par for the course, which is sad.

MJ,

"Pastors and those involved in ministry" are like any other people without the influencing power of the Word. Many people with holy titles have displayed very unholy behaviors far beyond being "rude/condescending." Vast sums of monies paid out and jailed clergymen in the "Freedom loving" USA, because too many have not been transformed (Romans 12:1-2) by the very Word (Bible) that they handled. Be not dismay, there is still hope for change and them. Let's pray that the Christians, working around or with the people mentioned above, will be "living" Epistles (2 Cor 3:2-6).

 

Posts 2466
David Ames | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 11 2016 5:32 AM

Charles McNeil:

Products will drive sales.  

BUT only if the customers know that they exist.  

Posts 5262
Dan Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 11 2016 11:22 AM

David Ames:

Charles McNeil:

Products will drive sales.  

BUT only if the customers know that they exist.  

Under the current model this cannot work... for millions of books to added millions upon millions of users have to pre order them before faithlife will even consider digitizing them. I have asked in the past if the concept of PrePub in someways might be a broken system. I look at the Paulist Press Classics of Western Spirituality Bundle (126 vols.) this set has new and good translations of  almost every significant spiritual classic. Everyone of these books should be available in FL library and I am positive at least half of them would be very big sellers. Trouble is this collection is so big and expensive and in no way available quickly to offer promise but cause people to go off and find it elsewhere. Obviously FL cannot simply release every book available, but at times I wonder if they might shoot themselves in the foot a bit by this system.

-Dan

Posts 3375
SineNomine | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 11 2016 11:31 AM

Dan Francis:
Trouble is this collection is so big and expensive and in no way available quickly to offer promise but cause people to go off and find it elsewhere.

Significantly smaller parts of that collection are also available on Pre-Pub, and none of them are doing too well.

Posts 5262
Dan Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 11 2016 11:48 AM

SineNomine:
Significantly smaller parts of that collection are also available on Pre-Pub, and none of them are doing too well.

Very true and perhaps i perhaps value these spiritual masters more than most. I just think it is ashame that most of the works i want to buy in Logos are not yet available.

-Dan

PS:I say that now but at the same time I could not afford the package if it was released soon...

Posts 933
David Carter | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 11 2016 12:29 PM

Dan Francis:
Obviously FL cannot simply release every book available, but at times I wonder if they might shoot themselves in the foot a bit by this system.

They could remove an obvious bullet if only they could come to an agreement with Moody. I'm sure there would be a significant level of sales if and when they did.

Posts 5262
Dan Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 11 2016 3:30 PM

David Carter:
They could remove an obvious bullet if only they could come to an agreement with Moody. I'm sure there would be a significant level of sales if and when they did.

From my understanding it was such an acrimonious break I wouldn't expect it anytime soon...

-Dan

Posts 8967
RIP
Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 11 2016 3:38 PM

I see this thread has veered off course from the title.

Logos 7 Collectors Edition

Posts 2148
GaoLu | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 11 2016 4:49 PM

MJ. Smith:

Bruce Dunning:
That's an interesting thought. It makes me wonder what percentage of Logos uses are forum users.

Forum Activity: 186,437 users have contributed to 101,098 threads and 769,461 posts.

IIRC a couple of years or more ago we were told there were > 1 million users.

My case may be unusual, but I likely have half a dozen forgotten former ID's as I sniffed at Logos on and off for quite a few years before the hook finally set.     

With great respect and concern for those laid off, positive changes often comes when we are motivated by events such as layoffs.  That has happened to me, anyway.  God is in control and will take care of His children.  

To be candid, my personal experience with sales was never positive.  I only used sales assistance a few times and my experiences were like this:

1. Just got an ordinary deal, same as online. No benefit.

2. I got misleading help from a person who knew less than I did about a some products and insisted they were right.  Details aside, they were quite wrong, which was verified after I made the purchase on my own without so much "help."  

3. I was offered a good deal--better than online. My sales person for reasons perhaps related or unrelated was let go before the sales was even completed.  Another person came alone and tried to undo the deal. I dug my heels in a bit since the salesman's offer was already committed by email. l got the deal I was offered but never felt good about it for myself or Logos or the salesperson.

4. Excessive pressure and sort of mustard yellow plaid panted used car sales feel techniques.  I wanted advice on putting together overlapping resource packages, figuring out actual prices, not all that other hype and nonsense.  (I canceled the sale in 2 cases and figured out on my own).

All my experiences fit those categories.  Of course not only phone sales staff were laid off. Yet, as wonderful as some of the sales staff were, maybe everyone would have a better experience with some changes.  I will likely not bother with sales staff any time soon, but stick with my own figures online.  Maybe someone can offer better experiences.  I am grateful for the great reviews of some former staff.  

I have a lot of confidence in Logos, appreciate Bob's statements and don't feel the worries some express.  

Peace.

Posts 235
C M | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 11 2016 6:31 PM

Super.Tramp:
I see this thread has veered off course from the title.

Back to the purity of the thread:

Given that a lot of the "big" salaried workers were let go, could some of them be replaced with younger or part time workers without the pressure and quotas?

Posts 235
C M | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 11 2016 6:40 PM

SineNomine:
Significantly smaller parts of that collection are also available on Pre-Pub, and none of them are doing too well.

Is it possible for us to discuss this collection elsewhere finding it possibly that it lacks quality, to explain why it's not doing well?

Posts 27987
Forum MVP
MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 11 2016 6:48 PM

Charles McNeil:
finding it possibly that it lacks quality,

I was a subscriber to the series from the first volume to 80-something when I became to busy to read them. I assure you that quality is not the issue. I suspect that it is the makeup of the user base as the original target market has little overlap with Logos.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 3375
SineNomine | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 11 2016 7:45 PM

Charles McNeil:

SineNomine:
Significantly smaller parts of that collection are also available on Pre-Pub, and none of them are doing too well.

Is it possible for us to discuss this collection elsewhere....

Yes.

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