Logos for a layman

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This post has 37 Replies | 4 Followers

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James McAdams | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jan 20 2016 8:55 AM

Jan Krohn:

Actually it's Perseus not Pegasus.

Oops! My bad Embarrassed

Posts 27
Tim Lewis | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jan 20 2016 9:05 AM

NB.Mick:
If someone likes another bible best, they should be willing to spend the - usually small - amount to add that to their library.

But the KJV is already in my library.  I have it downloaded on my phone, and have made extensive notes and highlights in it.  I'm not sure how this is not considered "in my library".  And since it is in my library, it seems I should also have access to it from the desktop.

To say the least, it makes me unwilling to add things to my library from my phone in the future since it seems that those things aren't available on the desktop.

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Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jan 20 2016 9:14 AM

Tim Lewis:

Jan Krohn:
About 95% of all resources that you purchase (for $0 or at cost) is available both on mobile and desktop without additional cost.

So basically, all of them except the KJV.  Nice.

You have never 'purchased' the KJV from Logos. You have been granted access to the KJV whilst using the mobile app. There's a difference. If you had have purchased it (for $10 or $0, or whatever), then it would be yours on the desktop.

Tim Lewis:
Furthermore, it seems that there should be an option for layman like me who don't need access to a whole library of commentaries that is either very cheap or free, since not many laymen are going to be spending hundreds of dollars on Bible software to take notes.

You'd be surprised how many 'lay users' are willing to pay a little money to help the study the Bible better. They consider that great task to be worth the expense.

Posts 196
Stephen Terlizzi | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jan 20 2016 9:22 AM

Tim Lewis:

And since it is in my library, it seems I should also have access to it from the desktop.

Tim,

I don't understand why Faithlife owes us free resources on the desktop if they choose to offer a version on the mobile device. 

If you walk into an ice cream shop and taste a spoonful of ice cream, does the shop owe you a full cone? If you watch a preview of a movie in a movie theatre, does the movie theatre owe you a ticket to the movie? If an author reads from a chapter in his book at the bookstore, does the bookstore owe you a copy of the book? Obviously not. The same with Faithlife...if they chose to offer the KJV Bible in the less-powered Mobile application, it does not entitle us to have the same version in the higher-powered desktop application.

Faithlife does offer a free English (Lexham English Bible) bible and a free Greek (SBL Greek:New Testament) NT in the desktop version to allow people to get started using Logos. They are entitled to charge for the value that they add to the Bible through tagging, etc. Believe me, I am the first to question some of their pricing and bundling decisions, but they do have a right to charge for their work.

IMHO.

Agape,

Steve

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NB.Mick | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jan 20 2016 9:32 AM

Tim Lewis:

NB.Mick:
If someone likes another bible best, they should be willing to spend the - usually small - amount to add that to their library.

But the KJV is already in my library.  I have it downloaded on my phone, and have made extensive notes and highlights in it.  I'm not sure how this is not considered "in my library".  And since it is in my library, it seems I should also have access to it from the desktop.

To say the least, it makes me unwilling to add things to my library from my phone in the future since it seems that those things aren't available on the desktop.

Look at what Mark wrote. The KJV and - depending on the application and potentially the platform - a number of other resources, in total about fifty of them, are made available to you on the mobile platform: free of charge, as a trial, so you can evaluate how the app works. (I wonder if there was a change, since I seem to recall they used to be only available "over the net", not downloadable to the mobile platforms.) 

This is a special thing which only applies to the trial use of those resources. License rights of the publishers (and business decisions of Faithlife) prevent those to be considered your property or even a cross-platform-usage license you'd have for that. I'm quite sure some info window informed about that. This is a special, mobile-only trial license.

It has no bearing whatsoever on what happens when you buy a resource either on the phone or on the desktop - for free or otherwise.     

Running Logos 8 latest beta version on Win 10

Posts 980
JohnB | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jan 20 2016 12:45 PM

Tim,

Mark Barnes:
You'd be surprised how many 'lay users' are willing to pay a little money to help the study the Bible better.

Tim, you would be surprised just how many persons on this forum are laymen.

I decided to spend more time with the bible after retirement from teaching & government service on a very modest pension and have been a Logos user for over three years now and have invested part of my savings in Logos books during that time. I don't regret it for one minute.
My wife has begun taking a bible class in church and although had to be encouraged (she calls it nagging) into using Logos, has found it has made a fantastic difference to her teaching. It is well worth the holiday(s) that we could have taken instead ... 

Posts 259
scooter | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jan 20 2016 1:48 PM

Hey, Tim:  I am a layman.  I study using Logos resources:  my topic, my way, my speed, my level of complexity.  Customize, then test-drive.  Logos has a 30 day money back guarantee.  I have used it and they indeed honor it.

Cash: people give me such for birthday + Christmas.  I spend it here, then I spend time learning.

Perhaps consider spending a bit to feed yourself.

Posts 164
Michael | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jan 20 2016 1:55 PM

I'm chiming in as another layperson who has found Logos immensely useful and certainly worth the price of admission.  The usefulness of having a resource with Logos tagging is not just marketing hype as I've found in my own experience.  I've owned books in Kindle and OliveTree over the years and repurchased them in Logos.  It's not just for the sake of having books and resources in one program.  There's just more you can do with them in Logos than you can in other programs and that makes it worth the price IMO.  Now granted sometimes the price difference is very significant so I sometimes have to wait for a good sale, talk to a salesperson for a discount, or simply decide it's not worth it for me at this time.  The $10 they charge for some Bibles is worth it to me even if they're available in the public domain.  The Logos tagging just makes the them much more useful.

Features I use in Logos as a layperson

  • Visual filters.  Immensely useful.
  • Notes and highlights.  Offline access.  Custom highlight palettes.  Big feature as other programs like OliveTree and the YouVersion Bible app offer much less functionality here.
  • Excellent mobile AND desktop app.  Especially for Windows/Android.  OliveTree's desktop app is nowhere near as functional for desktop.  The Logos mobile app has improved to the point where I really like it as my main mobile app as well.  Accordance doesn't offer an Android app at all.
  • Easy way to manage and customize reading plans
  • Easy way to manage and customize prayer lists

These are just a few of the reasons I consider Logos a useful and powerful tool even for a layperson.  

I purchased a base package almost a year ago and have greatly enjoyed using Logos as a tool to enhance my Bible Study and to organize my thoughts, notes, and library into a single program.  At least as much as possible.  I still use OneNote for some of my notes because it's a much more robust program for that than Logos.

In prior years, I used OliveTree since it was much "cheaper" in terms of up front cost.  OT was definitely useful when I got it 5 years ago.  I purchased several study Bibles in the program and used it often.  I liked that it was optimized for mobile devices.  As I did more and more reading, I realized that while study Bible notes were useful, I wanted more depth than what they offered.  I had to make a decision to continue to invest into OT or go with Logos.  I went with Logos last year because they had a booth at a conference I attended and offered a very good discount for attendees.  Better than the normal 15%.  So I decided to make the jump and I'm glad I did.

I hope some of this was useful.  If not please ignore my longwinded post.

Posts 623
JAL | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jan 20 2016 2:59 PM

Tim Lewis:
I'm just asking that my library be synced across my devices.

Who's paying for the infrastructure that allows you to sync? Spend $10.00.

"The Christian mind is the prerequisite of Christian thinking. And Christian thinking is the prerequisite of Christian action." - Harry Blamires, 1963

Posts 27
Tim Lewis | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 21 2016 2:57 AM

JAL:
Who's paying for the infrastructure that allows you to sync?

That's kind of the whole point of the freemium business model.  The entry level is free to get people in the door.  Then it costs significant amounts of money to do anything more than the entry level.  For example, a mobile app that costs more than $5 is generally considered pretty expensive, so many apps will offer a limited version for free, and then charge for features that go beyond those limited capabilities.  Generally, the developer can end up making more money through that strategy than they would have by charging $5 or more for the app initially.  The ultimate result is that the people who pay for the premium features are paying for those features and the ones that are offered for free, and people that use just the free version get services that would have otherwise cost them significant amounts of money.

In the case of Logos, they offer their Core Engine and their mobile app for free, and make up for that with the money they make off the resources they sell.  So you ask who's paying for the infrastructure that allows me to sync?  The guy paying $10,000 for the Collector's Edition, or maybe more accurately, the guy installing the Core Engine for free and then buying all the other resources from the Collector's Edition individually.  In either case, in my opinion, the KJV Bible should have been part of the "free" portion of the freemium.  Obviously, the people at Faithlife disagree.  That is their right, and I don't begrudge them of that.  Ultimately, I have gone ahead and paid the $10 to get the KJV resource, though I still disagree with their approach to the pricing.

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Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 21 2016 3:15 AM

Tim Lewis:
In the case of Logos, they offer their Core Engine and their mobile app for free, and make up for that with the money they make off the resources they sell.  So you ask who's paying for the infrastructure that allows me to sync?  The guy paying $10,000 for the Collector's Edition, or maybe more accurately, the guy installing the Core Engine for free and then buying all the other resources from the Collector's Edition individually.  In either case, in my opinion, the KJV Bible should have been part of the "free" portion of the freemium.  Obviously, the people at Faithlife disagree.  That is their right, and I don't begrudge them of that.  Ultimately, I have gone ahead and paid the $10 to get the KJV resource, though I still disagree with their approach to the pricing.

That's fair enough. I trust Logos will enrich your study.

Posts 2061
GaoLu | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 21 2016 3:21 AM

Tim Lewis:
In the case of Logos, they offer their Core Engine and their mobile app for free, and make up for that with the money they make off the resources they sell.  So you ask who's paying for the infrastructure that allows me to sync?  The guy paying $10,000 for the Collector's Edition, or maybe more accurately, the guy installing the Core Engine for free and then buying all the other resources from the Collector's Edition individually.

There is some truth to that, and I don't mind at all that some of the money I spend goes to help more new folks climb aboard and get more bang for their buck with features they maybe haven't really paid for.  Truth is, I kind of wish Faithlife would give away the KJV too.  But that is their choice.  

Something else, I might have missed it if anyone already mentioned it above, but my KJV is not only thoroughly tagged, but also has a complete elaborate built in Greek, Hebrew Interlinear. Not only that, but it's all linked up with any lexicons and dictionaries you might have now or in the future and also links up verse by verse with any other Bibles you have open.  You can rearrange it to read verse by verse or  paragraph by paragraph...and so much more!  You can turn verse numbers and foot notes on and off.  And there is still much more, but just give some of that a try and then come back here for more. All that is probably worth every bit of $10.  Please let us know what you think after you give it a test drive.  

Posts 623
JAL | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 21 2016 3:29 AM

Gao Lu:
KJV is not only thoroughly tagged, but also has a complete elaborate built in Greek, Hebrew Interlinear

The interlinear functionality is a separate dataset.

"The Christian mind is the prerequisite of Christian thinking. And Christian thinking is the prerequisite of Christian action." - Harry Blamires, 1963

Posts 2061
GaoLu | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 21 2016 5:25 AM

Oops.  Thanks for that correction.

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jan 31 2016 7:42 PM

JAL:

Gao Lu:
KJV is not only thoroughly tagged, but also has a complete elaborate built in Greek, Hebrew Interlinear

The interlinear functionality is a separate dataset.

Noticed Starter Base Packages include interlinear resources for AV 1873 and KJV 1900 Bibles.

As a layman, am Thankful for interlinear tagging that can be used in visual filters so can "see" range of Greek verbal expression in English Bibles:

The 1769 Authorized Version does not have interlinear tagging.

Logos wiki has => https://wiki.logos.com/Extended_Tips_for_Highlighting_and_Visual_Filters#Examples_of_visual_filters that includes option for visual filters to be freely shared.  Caveat: visual filters are not available for mobile.

Searching Logos for Authorized Version found two resource bundles:

Preacher's Essential Library is $ 39.99 for 20 Resources => https://www.logos.com/product/8586/preachers-essential-bible-study-library

AMG Bible Essentials is $ 99.99 => https://www.logos.com/product/9438/amg-bible-essentials that includes discussion lexicons.

Keep Smiling Smile

Posts 5250
Dan Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 2 2016 11:11 AM

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :):
AMG Bible Essentials is $ 99.99 => https://www.logos.com/product/9438/amg-bible-essentials that includes discussion lexicons.

Please note this package is an older one and will currently not work on mobile platform... it is labeled mac windows only. Logos has a handful of titles that they have yet been able to get mobile rights for.

-Dan

Posts 623
JAL | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 2 2016 9:12 PM

Dan Francis:
Please note this package is an older one and will currently not work on mobile platform... it is labeled mac windows only. Logos has a handful of titles that they have yet been able to get mobile rights for.

AMG Bible Essentials

by 16 authors

5 publishers |1992–2003

This is a case broad brush labeling. Certain titles included in the package are not available on the mobile apps thus the webpage indicates no mobile access. There are several standard resources included in the package that are available on mobile as access rights are negotiated separately with each publisher.

"The Christian mind is the prerequisite of Christian thinking. And Christian thinking is the prerequisite of Christian action." - Harry Blamires, 1963

Posts 60
Rustamania | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Feb 3 2016 7:56 AM

I haven't read this entire thread, but I think I know what you are getting at.  I'm a little different. I have a base package with a few thousand books.  I read morning and evening on my mobile device and did some highlighting and note taking.  I went over to the desktop to copy out some of those notes/highlights and  the resource is unavailable.  Looking at notes/highlights isn't the best on mobile so it was a little frustrating that I couldn't really use my notes.  I could just buy the resource, so it isn't a big deal, but honestly, if it doesn't show on my desktop, I don't really want it on my mobile.  

This same idea is my concern for a subscription model.  I don't want to take a bunch of notes and highlights and then they decide to pull the book from the subscription.  Otherwise, I would be game to it

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