Two Concerns of Mine Concerning Logos and Faithlife

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Nathan Parker | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Mar 11 2016 3:42 PM

1780.Archive.zip

I know this isn't the exact logs you need since I haven't had a chance to enable logging on Logos and run through everything, but attached are the OS X Diagnostic Reports that show the hangs, the force quits, etc. Let me know if these help any, and maybe this weekend I can generate some more detailed logs.

I've updated to SR2 and still having issues with Logos becoming unresponsive when starting up, plus general startup performance has been slow.

Thanks!

Nathan Parker

Visit my blog at http://focusingonthemarkministries.com

Posts 1751
Nathan Parker | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Mar 14 2016 1:33 PM

8233.LogosLogs.parkernathan.20160314-152808.zip

Here's my log where Logos becomes not responding on startup. Let me know if you need anything else!

Thanks!

Nathan Parker

Visit my blog at http://focusingonthemarkministries.com

Posts 8081
LogosEmployee

The logs show some disk-based database operations taking unexpectedly long; the sample also shows that the application has stopped waiting for the OS to return data from various "open" or "read" calls (that also access the disk). 

Were you running another disk-intensive process while starting Logos, or was the system otherwise idle?

Posts 1751
Nathan Parker | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Mar 14 2016 3:32 PM

Bradley Grainger (Faithlife):

The logs show some disk-based database operations taking unexpectedly long; the sample also shows that the application has stopped waiting for the OS to return data from various "open" or "read" calls (that also access the disk). 

Were you running another disk-intensive process while starting Logos, or was the system otherwise idle?

There wasn't anything else disk-intensive going on when I started Logos. Sometimes I'll have my web browser or mail client open as well, but in the past I've done that while Logos has started and never had the issues. I've had a lot of apps open at once (web browser, mail client, iTunes, a third party note app, a word processor, and two other Bible software applications) and Logos still fired right up.

Nathan Parker

Visit my blog at http://focusingonthemarkministries.com

Posts 1751
Nathan Parker | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Mar 14 2016 4:05 PM

Update on the other concern I posted concerning Faithlife...

The person who started the other study Bible group has messaged me and decided to pull his group and in essence, merge with CSB. He's going to recommend people join it, as well as if he uses any of my written material in the future, he is going to ensure to cite it (it's not that I don't mind sharing insights with others and other using my work, but since I did work extremely hard on it all, just citing it is the proper thing to do).

I also posted a message in the group giving people an overview on how to get started with CSB, as well as I am encouraging people there to at least unlock the free Lexham Intro Collection to get more out of the group, and I have heavily encouraged them to also check out either a Logos Base Package or Logos Cloud Subscription. That way people who get involved with the group are studying using Faithlife/Logos family tools and products.

For anyone else that is interested in checking out the CSB group, here is a direct link to it:

https://faithlife.com/communitystudybible/activity

Here is also a link to the Prayer Partners group I admin for those who wish to share prayer requests:

https://faithlife.com/prayerpartners/activity 

The Faithlife/Logos team has my permission to promote these groups anywhere you wish and link to them anywhere you wish to encourage more people, especially Faithlife/Logos Bible Software users, to join them. Primarily my goal with CSB is to give Faithlife/Logos users a place to share their own insights on their favorite Bible passages so that we can work together to produce an ongoing, community-contributed study Bible made of Faithlife/Logos users. It's not a replacement for the Faithlife Study Bible but a nice supplement. Think of it as a "Wikipedia of study Bibles". For Prayer Partners, it's simply a centralized prayer community that anyone can post prayer requests to and know there are other Christians praying for them. 

Thanks!

Nathan Parker

Visit my blog at http://focusingonthemarkministries.com

Posts 274
Average Joe | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Mar 15 2016 10:52 AM

I can't really comment on the technical aspects as I know I don't yet use Logos to anywhere close to its full potential. But just a note about users with non-descript user names and ambiguous pictures. I know, for me, it has been deeply ingrained to be very cautious about using personally identifiable information (like my name and picture) online. Once it's out there on the web, it's there forever.

Yes, some people hide in anonymity in order to act like a jerk without fear of reprisal, but some of us do so out of a desire for security and avoiding other such pitfalls of the internet. I'd prefer not to have employers or potential employers be able to figure out everything about me with a simple Google search (including my obsession with Logos Bible software Wink).

Posts 1751
Nathan Parker | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Mar 15 2016 1:03 PM

Average Joe:

I can't really comment on the technical aspects as I know I don't yet use Logos to anywhere close to its full potential. But just a note about users with non-descript user names and ambiguous pictures. I know, for me, it has been deeply ingrained to be very cautious about using personally identifiable information (like my name and picture) online. Once it's out there on the web, it's there forever.

Yes, some people hide in anonymity in order to act like a jerk without fear of reprisal, but some of us do so out of a desire for security and avoiding other such pitfalls of the internet. I'd prefer not to have employers or potential employers be able to figure out everything about me with a simple Google search (including my obsession with Logos Bible software Wink).

Good points. I guess I can never be 100% "anonymous"online since I work for a company heavily involved in administrating a community/social network site, and since my picture and information has been plastered out there enough on the web, I couldn't hide from the public if I wanted to. :-) Unfortunately for me, if you want to find me badly enough, you can. :-)

Nathan Parker

Visit my blog at http://focusingonthemarkministries.com

Posts 2725
Kevin A. Purcell | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Mar 16 2016 9:48 AM

Nathan, a $5000 Mac Pro? Really? Wow!!

You didn't ask, but I'm an opinionated guy so I'll offer a suggestion anyway ....Big Smile

The Mac Pro is probably a bad investment if you're primarily running Logos on it. The program is first hard drive intensive and second graphics intensive. I've noticed in my testing of a lot of different computers as a reviewer of PCs and Macs for the last 6 years that the things that most benefit Logos are a good SSD and at least 8GB of RAM. The next thing that I've seen help is a dedicated graphics card. Processor speed is seldom a big part of speeding up Logos.

With that said, if I had $5000 for a new computer, I'd get an Apple Thunderbolt display and a tweaked out MacBook Pro with a huge SSD and 16GB of RAM for future proof. The 15" MacBook Pro with the fastest processor and 1TB SSD comes with 16GB of RAM and dedicated graphics. It costs $3,199. Add the awesome display at $1000 plus Apple Care and you're saving $1000 and getting the right kind of power plus desktop and mobile in one.

Posts 1751
Nathan Parker | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Mar 16 2016 4:22 PM

Kevin A. Purcell:

Nathan, a $5000 Mac Pro? Really? Wow!!

You didn't ask, but I'm an opinionated guy so I'll offer a suggestion anyway ....Big Smile

The Mac Pro is probably a bad investment if you're primarily running Logos on it. The program is first hard drive intensive and second graphics intensive. I've noticed in my testing of a lot of different computers as a reviewer of PCs and Macs for the last 6 years that the things that most benefit Logos are a good SSD and at least 8GB of RAM. The next thing that I've seen help is a dedicated graphics card. Processor speed is seldom a big part of speeding up Logos.

With that said, if I had $5000 for a new computer, I'd get an Apple Thunderbolt display and a tweaked out MacBook Pro with a huge SSD and 16GB of RAM for future proof. The 15" MacBook Pro with the fastest processor and 1TB SSD comes with 16GB of RAM and dedicated graphics. It costs $3,199. Add the awesome display at $1000 plus Apple Care and you're saving $1000 and getting the right kind of power plus desktop and mobile in one.

Thanks for the feedback!

What I failed to mention is I am actually going to be doing way more on it than just Logos. :-)

I am going to be rendering at least an hour worth of HD video a week, as well as possibly be gradually rendering some 4K video. Primarily I'll be using screencasting software such as ScreenFlow and Camtasia, etc., but it's also possible I'm going to dip into using FCPX as well. 

There's a weather program that runs on Linux as well I've wanted to badly run, but it requires a ton of RAM and a hefty processor. A Mac Pro could run it in virtualization under Parallels if I jacked the RAM and processor allotment up on the VM. A MacBook Pro could probably do it but it might tax it a little.

I do have a good 27" display at the moment. Not an Apple Thunderbolt display, but the display is still gorgeous and similar resolution to Apple's. Ideally if Apple ships a 5K Thunderbolt Display, then I'd be more than willing to get one. My MacBook Pro just had a new logic board put in, plus it's got a new hard drive, RAM, and battery, so it should last me until I'd need to replace it. With my academic pricing, I could get a new MacBook Pro for around $3,000, and I was seriously considering doing it for the portability, but at the moment, I'm needing more "raw power" and I haven't been traveling as much with my MacBook Pro. Normally when I'm away from my office, I've been working off my iPad Air 2. 

Hence why I was considering the Mac Pro for now since I need a ton of power plus I have a decently running MacBook Pro, then when it bites the dust, if I need on the go power again, go ahead and invest in one.

No matter what though, I am trying to wait and see all what Apple delivers this year in new hardware across the board. Since I am still not fully decided, waiting to see what Apple drops this year should finally solidify what I want to do.

Nathan Parker

Visit my blog at http://focusingonthemarkministries.com

Posts 1187
Myke Harbuck | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Mar 16 2016 5:32 PM

Kevin A. Purcell:

Nathan, a $5000 Mac Pro? Really? Wow!!

I know, right!

I don't know how one could come up with a $5k MBP. Ive owned MBPs for years, and shop them all the time, and I've never seen  $5k MBP, not even with the highest-priced add ons you can get. I just tried it a minute ago, and $3300 is about all I can get to. 

Maybe I missed something, and if so, sorry. Maybe you were discussing one that was going to come loaded with other software, like Final Cut. But even that's only about $500. 

Myke Harbuck
Lead Pastor, www.ByronCity.Church
Adjunct Professor, Georgia Military College

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Mar 16 2016 8:03 PM

Myke Harbuck:

I know, right!

I don't know how one could come up with a $5k MBP. . 

You added a letter. Wink

(It's a $5k Mac Pro, not a MacBook Pro)

http://www.apple.com/shop/buy-mac/mac-pro 

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Posts 2725
Kevin A. Purcell | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Mar 21 2016 6:34 AM

alabama24:

Myke Harbuck:

I know, right!

I don't know how one could come up with a $5k MBP. . 

You added a letter. Wink

(It's a $5k Mac Pro, not a MacBook Pro)

http://www.apple.com/shop/buy-mac/mac-pro 

pretty sure he's referring to my recommendations o get a MacBook Pro instead and save a grand ore more.

I brought it up because I've read that the Mac Pro is really problematic. I'm a twit.tv fan and Leo LePorte says his is nothing more than an expensive living room PC because it had so many issues.

Everything you described Nathan could be done an a maxed out MacBook Pro easily.

However, if you've got money to burn and want the cool trashcan looking Mac...

Posts 1751
Nathan Parker | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Mar 21 2016 9:46 AM

Kevin A. Purcell:

alabama24:

Myke Harbuck:

I know, right!

I don't know how one could come up with a $5k MBP. . 

You added a letter. Wink

(It's a $5k Mac Pro, not a MacBook Pro)

http://www.apple.com/shop/buy-mac/mac-pro 

pretty sure he's referring to my recommendations o get a MacBook Pro instead and save a grand ore more.

I brought it up because I've read that the Mac Pro is really problematic. I'm a twit.tv fan and Leo LePorte says his is nothing more than an expensive living room PC because it had so many issues.

Everything you described Nathan could be done an a maxed out MacBook Pro easily.

However, if you've got money to burn and want the cool trashcan looking Mac...

What issues does it generally have?

What I'm mainly looking for out of a new Mac is one that's going to give me rock solid reliable hardware.

If the Mac Pro has some issues, then I would seriously re-consider it and look at a different model. Mainly I'm wanting to purchase the most reliable Mac I can purchase that's going to give me a good long-term investment.

Nathan Parker

Visit my blog at http://focusingonthemarkministries.com

Posts 1015
John Goodman | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Mar 22 2016 4:16 AM

Nathan,

A computer is rarely going to be a good long term investment even a mac is a rapidly depreciating asset. It is best to keep your costs to a minimum so that you can upgrade sooner. Just get double the base amount of RAM for the operating system and a larger SSD than you think you need and you'll be set. It genuinely sounds like you are trying to drive a nail with a jackhammer.

Perhaps it helps to think about it like this... The only time a really expensive computer makes sense is if using it reduces another cost significantly enough to make it a cost saving. Eg. When I was doing a lot of video editing 5 years ago we found that due to a lack of equipment we were literally wasting technicians time. The solution was not a faster computer but a second one so that we could multitask and still dedicate a computer to rendering. We also used scripting to ensure that the computers were working for us when we were at home!

Essentially we were doing everything you've mentioned above with a midrange imac and macbook pro 5 years ago. We might have enjoyed using a higher end computer but I don't think it would have been the right financial decision. BTW money was no object we spent plenty on higher ticket items like video multiplexers, HD PTZ Camera's etc. The point is however much you have it needs to be prioritized well. That in a church which gave more than half its income to other ministries and missions.

Hoping that is helpful.

גַּם־חֹשֶׁךְ֮ לֹֽא־יַחְשִׁ֪יךְ מִ֫מֶּ֥ךָ וְ֭לַיְלָה כַּיּ֣וֹם יָאִ֑יר כַּ֝חֲשֵׁיכָ֗ה כָּאוֹרָֽה

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Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Mar 22 2016 5:16 AM

John Goodman:
A computer is rarely going to be a good long term investment even a mac is a rapidly depreciating asset. It is best to keep your costs to a minimum so that you can upgrade sooner. Just get double the base amount of RAM for the operating system and a larger SSD than you think you need and you'll be set. It genuinely sounds like you are trying to drive a nail with a jackhammer.

I agree 100% with that. Today's high-end device is tomorrow's mid-range device, and the day after tomorrow's bargain bin device.

For example, in March 2013 I spent $213 on the best consumer 256GB SSD on the market (Samsung 840 Pro). 30 months later, it I could get double the capacity and 20% more speed for $177 (although I sold the old device for $90).

Of course I could have bought a 512Gb SSD back in 2013, but it would have cost about $530. But the total cost of buying a 256Gb one then upgrading when I needed more capacity was only $300 - and for half my ownership I've got a faster, more reliable device. 

The same applies to every other component.

In the PC market, $700-$1000 will buy you a mid-range device that will give you good performance for at least three years. You might need to add 25%-50% to that if you're looking for a Mac.

But if you want that PC to give you good performance for an extra 12 months, you'll need to increase it's power by 25-35% at purchase. That's fine up to a point, but you have to keep spending more and more to get less and less. Once you go above $1,500 you hit a wall, and you've got to spend hundreds or even thousands of dollars for relatively small performance increases. That's doubly true of Macs when you can't buy after-market improvements, nor specify a machine that only has the high-quality components that you need, and not ones you don't. (You certainly don't need twin graphics cards for running Logos, for example. That's just wasteful unless you're doing video editing or cryptographic work.)

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Mar 22 2016 6:58 AM

Mark Barnes:
You certainly don't need twin graphics cards for running Logos, for example. That's just wasteful unless you're doing video editing

He has said he will be doing so. 

The "what computer should he buy" is really out of place in this forum because Logos isn't the primary usage for the machine. If I were still doing video editing, I would be getting a Mac Pro (which CAN be upgraded by the user). 

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Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Mar 22 2016 7:10 AM

alabama24:

He has said he will be doing so. 

The "what computer should he buy" is really out of place in this forum because Logos isn't the primary usage for the machine. If I were still doing video editing, I would be getting a Mac Pro (which CAN be upgraded by the user). 

Sorry, I missed that. Even so, I still stand by what I said. Camtasia is running very happily on my $1,000 3-year old PC. Final rendering could be faster, but it can happily run in the background, and still completes faster than real-time. (That said, I'd argue my $1,000 home-built PC is equal spec to the Mac Pro of it's day in every department except graphics.)

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Mar 22 2016 8:07 AM

Mark Barnes:
Camtasia is running very happily on my $1,000 3-year old PC

Camtasia ain't Final Cut Pro... but not everyone needs FCP. Likewise, a Mac Pro is overkill for the average hobbyist.  

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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Mar 22 2016 9:06 AM

This thread has so ridiculously gone off topic.

What a shame those interested in Mac hardware and software can't search for this thread.

Logos 7 Collectors Edition

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Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Mar 22 2016 1:19 PM

alabama24:
Camtasia ain't Final Cut Pro

Nathan Parker:
I am going to be rendering at least an hour worth of HD video a week, as well as possibly be gradually rendering some 4K video. Primarily I'll be using screencasting software such as ScreenFlow and Camtasia, etc., but it's also possible I'm going to dip into using FCPX as well. 

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