Brill's Gold-Plated Hebrew & Greek Encyclopedias

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Denise | Forum Activity | Posted: Tue, May 10 2016 3:21 PM

Ok, time to push both of the hebrew and greek language encyclopedias from Brill. Surprisingly, they're coming along in Logos pre-pub land., especially the greek one. This thread is simply a heads up to anyone who may not know of the pre-pubs.  I'm guessing not too many heads will up.

- They're expensive. About a $1,000 a clip (see below). Logos packages the greek with an etymology dictionary also from Brill. But each is pre-pub'd separately also.

- Why purchase? For me, I prefer more perspectives. Whether hebrew or greek, the language is at the heart of the meaning. And the meaning is from the deity. When I want to invest, I prefer source discussions, to the extent available.

- And datasets/searches are fine, but expertise is better.

Hebrew Reference Collection
https://www.logos.com/product/53610/brill-hebrew-reference-collection 

And a nice discussion:
http://themelios.thegospelcoalition.org/review/encyclopedia-of-hebrew-language-and-linguistics 

From Brill:
In a four volume set, complete with index, the Encyclopedia of Hebrew Language and Linguistics offers a systematic and comprehensive treatment of all aspects of the history and study of the Hebrew language from its earliest attested form to the present day. The encyclopedia contains overview articles that provide a readable synopsis of current knowledge of the major periods and varieties of the Hebrew language as well as thematically-organized entries which provide further information on individual topics, such as the Hebrew of various sources (texts, manuscripts, inscriptions, reading traditions), major grammatical features (phonology, morphology, and syntax), lexicon, script and paleography, theoretical linguistic approaches, and so forth. With over 950 entries and approximately 400 contributing scholars, the Encyclopedia of Hebrew Language and Linguistics is the authoritative reference work for students and researchers in the fields of Hebrew linguistics, general linguistics, Biblical studies, Hebrew and Jewish literature, and related fields.


Greek Reference Collection
https://www.logos.com/product/53609/brill-greek-reference-collection 

And an interesting chat (including Mike Aubry):
http://www.ibiblio.org/bgreek/forum/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=2541 

From Brill:
The Encyclopedia of Ancient Greek Language and Linguistics (EAGLL) brings together the latest research from across a range of disciplines contributing to our knowledge of Ancient Greek. The EAGLL offers a systematic and comprehensive treatment of all aspects of the history and study of Ancient Greek, comprising detailed descriptions of the language from Proto-Greek to koine. It addresses linguistic aspects from several perspectives, including history, structure, individual singularities, biographical references, schools of thought, technical meta-language, sociolinguistic issues, dialects, didactics, translation practices, generic issues, Greek in relation to other languages, etc., and on all levels of analysis including phonetics, phonology, morphology, syntax, lexicon, semantics, stylistics, etc. It also includes all the necessary background information regarding the roots of Greek in Indo-European. As and when, excursions may be made to later stages of the language, e.g. Byzantine or even later. The focus, however, will predominantly be Ancient Greek. With well over 500 entries on all aspects of Ancient Greek, this new encyclopedia is the authoritative reference work for students and researchers of Ancient Greek, general linguistics, Indo-European languages, and Biblical literature.


Posts 9915
Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Sep 24 2016 6:48 AM

Another bump-eroo for two resources that surprisingly are nearing 100%!

The greek one is just pixels away. I didn't check if Logos included it in the Triple-Platinum Collection. 

I especially would like the hebrew one ... I think Logos is a greek conspiracy.  Need more hebrew.

But the greek would be fine ... although koine sits on the tail end, it's the earlier greek that formed the jewish 2nd Temple imagery, as it flooded the Mediteranean.

So.  Think in terms of a nice commentary set, but without the fluff! Pure greek and hebrew!  Long term investment.


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Cynthia in Florida | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Sep 24 2016 6:58 AM

My heart and mind scream YES!

My pocket book is screaming NOOOOOOooooooooooooo.............

Cynthia

Romans 8:28-38

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Matt Hamrick | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Sep 24 2016 9:13 AM

I ordered this when it first appeared but have since deleted the order because of it's cost. I have other high cost items I will get before Brill.

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Bruce Dunning | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Sep 24 2016 9:28 AM

I would love both of these sets but the cost is prohibitive!

$2,350 (US) for 10 volumes = $230/volume!

Convert that to Canadian currency and it would cost me $3,100 or $310/volume or 44 cents per page!

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Veli Voipio | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Sep 24 2016 9:39 AM

I am not sure how to interpret this: the collections are almost there (for the incubator) but the components are well behind:

I hope they could renegotiate the deal because these are for individual use. Maybe I'll add this to my prayer list tonight!

Gold package, and original language material and ancient text material, SIL and UBS books, discourse Hebrew OT and Greek NT. PC with Windows 8.1

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Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Sep 24 2016 11:10 AM

Since I'm not a Faithlife rep, I'll go ahead and address several of the concerns.

1. The bidding on pieces of a package, vs the whole enchilada is an enduring struggle for Logosians. In a post-Barr world, entymologies are dangerous, unless intended to trip up your debating opponent. But apparently the greek encyclopedia alone doesn't have the votes. What to do?

2. 'Concise' anything is always an invitation for a professor to red-line your paper's bibliography. But the hebrew encyclopedia alone is almost the same price as the package. What to do?

3. Finally, on a price per volume, the whole thing threatens to sink your involvement in the Logosian 'how low can you go?' competition for cheap books (as Brill always does). What to do?

Rationalize.

Carefully examine the 'fluff factor'. There's so little real information that can be added to today's commentaries, that professors are mixing up their own fluff with everyone elses. Very risky. A real problem.

But these Brill volumes are certified as fluff-free. No concerns about the publisher telling you, you blew it, due to fluff citing mix-ups. So, your price per volume can be much higher, and still pay off.

There you go!


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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Sep 24 2016 2:14 PM

Denise:
In a post-Barr world, entymologies are dangerous,

While true in intent, this statement is rather buggy. Etymologies are, in fact, very useful for historical and comparative linguistics ... it is their abuse /  misuse that gave them an unfairly bad name.

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Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Sep 24 2016 3:31 PM

Agreed. But socially, folks feel duty bound to hold hands and pray in the presence of an etymology in the room. 

And they're rarely satisfying ... you wish you could sit along a trade route and listen.


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GaoLu | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Sep 24 2016 5:52 PM

Please forgive a very naive question, but do real people actually buy things like this? 

Posts 9915
Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Sep 24 2016 7:00 PM

I'd suspect Logos doesn't really know .... maybe if a refund were requested, they could listen carefully on the phone.

Computationally, it's not a difficult equation ... it's about the same as AYB (hebrew + greek encyclopedias). And more useful (my opinion vs AYB). Easy to sell at some point, though not the goal.

It wouldn't surprise me if the greek one is Noet folks; the hebrew a broader mix.


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Ben | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Sep 24 2016 9:25 PM

I have really enjoyed and found useful what I've read from the Hebrew (a dozen articles or so), but it's really for the Hebrew scholar. If you haven't done at least several years of Hebrew, and ideally something like Akkadian, Arabic, or Ugaritic, it's not going to be much use. 

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Veli Voipio | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Sep 25 2016 4:28 AM

Ben:
If you haven't done at least several years of Hebrew, and ideally something like Akkadian, Arabic, or Ugaritic, it's not going to be much use. 

Sounds good. I am developing a speculative hypothesis that Gen 2:21-3:24 is a prophetic dream seen by Adam, similar to the prophesies in Mari in the first part of the 2nd millennium BC, and that it was written on clay tablet right away as the other prophets did there. After that at least one translation phase is likely. I can probably never prove it, but I hope to find some info to start a reasonably hot debate with my theologian friends. Smile 

Gold package, and original language material and ancient text material, SIL and UBS books, discourse Hebrew OT and Greek NT. PC with Windows 8.1

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Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Sep 25 2016 6:40 AM

Veli, true, proving is almost impossible in the world of nothingness (limited data). But proving not true is a whole lot easier.

Data-pattern-wise, the Egypt pattern (Joseph, etc) can easily be picked up. And the old poetry sections. Gen 1 is an amalgam, but your section is still likely clean.

I'm in a book trying valiently to place the OT in the greek period. I don't think he'll have much luck, but I'm curious on his sources.


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EastTN | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Sep 25 2016 12:25 PM

Ben:

I have really enjoyed and found useful what I've read from the Hebrew (a dozen articles or so), but it's really for the Hebrew scholar. If you haven't done at least several years of Hebrew, and ideally something like Akkadian, Arabic, or Ugaritic, it's not going to be much use. 

Ben, thank you for that insight. This kind of quick "reality check" review is incredibly helpful.

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