Help understanding NET note vs HDNT @Matt 12.15b-17

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Ken F Hill | Forum Activity | Posted: Thu, Jun 23 2016 4:27 PM

NET notes @ Matt 12.17 says: 

Notes for 12:17

24 tn Grk “so that what was said by Isaiah the prophet would be fulfilled, saying.” This final clause, however, is part of one sentence in Greek (vv. 15b–17) and is thus not related only to v. 16.

Not having studied Greek, I thought I'd check this out in HDNT.  But I'm confused.  It looks like verse 17 is part of a sentence started in verse 16.  Then I looked at Cascadia syntax graphs.  It indicates 15b-16 are one sentence and verse 17 is a new sentence.(see image)

Can anyone explain this to me?  I don't expect to understand lots of nuances but I would like to understand the Logos tools available and how they complement each other.

Thanks.  PS - I wasn't sure where to ask this since I assume it (or part of it) could come up in L5, L6, etc.

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jun 25 2016 5:14 PM

Does this answer your question?

Dear __________:

Thank you for your letter. Your question is an interesting and important one, and we have considerable evidence with which to answer it.

The ancient Greeks did not have any equivalent to our modern device of punctuation. Sentence punctuation was invented several centuries after the time of Christ. The oldest copies of both the Greek New Testament and the Hebrew Old Testament are written with no punctuation.

In addition, the ancient Greeks used no spaces between words or paragraphs. Texts were a continuous string of letters, with an occasional blank line inserted to mark the end of a major section, though even this was not always done.

They also had no equivalent to our lower case letters. Texts were written in all capitals.

While this clearly creates some challenges for Bible translation, those challenge are seldom very large. As a simple test, try reading the English text in the following line:


With very little difficulty you can probably tell where the spaces should be and what kind of punctuation belongs at the end. You can tell this because you are a native speaker of the language in which the text is written, so you can easily recognize the words as well as the implication of the word order. Native speakers of Ancient Greek, in the same way, could recognize where one word ended and another began even though the spaces were not written. They could also distinguish a question from a direct statement without the need of punctuation.

Here’s the real problem: You and I are NOT native speakers of Ancient Greek.

While I read Ancient Greek quite well, I did not grow up speaking it. All modern scholars, including those who grew up speaking Modern Greek, are in this same situation.

When there is more than one possible way of dividing the words in a sentence or paragraph, or when there is more than one possible set of punctuation, we must look for clues as to what the author intended in order to correctly determine which is the correct division and what punctuation the author would have used if it had been available.

Of course there is an element of subjectivity in this process, but many scholars have dedicated the better part of their lives to reading the Biblical documents in the original languages and have come to have a good sense of the style and preferences of each author. As we develop this skill, it becomes easier to see what the author would most likely have intended in each of the few places where a sentence could be divided more than one way.

If you do not read Ancient Greek and Hebrew, it is important to compare various translations to see what the options for punctuation might be. Then you should ask yourself which punctuation results in something that the author would most likely have said. This may not always provide you with the correct answer, but it will be a valuable learning experience.

Thank you again for your letter. I wish you well in your studies.

Micheal W. Palmer
Greek Language and Linguistics Gateway

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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Ken F Hill | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jun 25 2016 6:10 PM

MJ. Smith:

Does this answer your question?

Thanks.  It does answer my question about the differences in the 3 different tools I asked about.  I had read most of this information before but this brought it together for me.  Now I'll have to dig into  the introductory chapters in some of the Logos tools to better understand how they are designed to work.

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mab | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jun 29 2016 7:52 PM

You will often find verse issues in studying the Old Testament.What's corresponding varies between Jewish and Christian translations. For example the Complete Jewish Bible verse numbering is a bit different than something like the ESV in OT scriptures. It's very minor, but it throws people off sometimes.Numbering is a relatively modern addition.

The mind of man is the mill of God, not to grind chaff, but wheat. Thomas Manton | Study hard, for the well is deep, and our brains are shallow. Richard Baxter

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