Over $300 for L7 Features? Really?

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This post has 268 Replies | 12 Followers

Posts 5615
Todd Phillips | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Sep 1 2016 1:55 PM

Bill Moore:
It's strange that Logos hasn't gotten this straightened out for many of us, not that it really matters. Then again, if it doesn't matter, why is it listed? Mine still shows mine as Reformed Diamond L5 even though I later upgraded to Reformed Diamond L6. Still, it's all fairly meaningless to me. I doubt I will buy another expensive library. I chose Standard Gold for L7 because of three particular sets offered that I didn't have.

It was added in the Logos 4 days because people were asking for something to show that the software had be updated to the current level.  Then Logos 5 came and the "downgrade" confusion arose when people bought smaller L5 packages.

They should have just listed all base packages ever bought.  OR better yet all base packages and bundles.  Or really they should have just added a licenses screen like Libronix had that showed all licenses and associated resources.

Mine still says Platinum LE (from Logos 4 days).  Every package I have bought since has been smaller.

Wiki Links: Enabling Logging / Detailed Search Help - MacBook Pro (2014), ThinkPad E570

Posts 2022
Mark | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Sep 1 2016 2:10 PM

Jack Caviness:

Mark:
Tell me please how Platinum L6 is higher than Platinum L7?
 

Seems that you misread my post. I commented that my About Logos says L5 Diamond although I have both L6 and L7 Platinum. Diamond is the highest level package in those three versions of Logos; hence, it is the one indicated as my status.

No, Jack, I did not misread your post.  I appreciate your response, however.  Diamond is higher than Platinum.  That would be why your about page says L5 Diamond.

In my case, I went from L6 Platinum to L7 Platinum.  So the question again to anyone, how is L6 Platinum higher than L7 Platinum?

Posts 2022
Mark | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Sep 1 2016 2:12 PM

Todd Phillips:
They should have just listed all base packages ever bought.  OR better yet all base packages and bundles.  Or really they should have just added a licenses screen like Libronix had that showed all licenses and associated resources.

Seems like an easy thing to do.  All I know is I predict the current way of doing it will soon be replaced...because it really is a terrible system.  Just takes time, sometimes for the right people to realize it or admit it

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Jack Caviness | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Sep 1 2016 5:15 PM

Mark:
In my case, I went from L6 Platinum to L7 Platinum.  So the question again to anyone, how is L6 Platinum higher than L7 Platinum?

Ah! Twas I who misread your post Embarrassed. If I had to pick a reason, it would be that L6 came first, and you did not move up for L7, so the system simply left you at 6. But—as has already been stated—it is really rather meaningless.

Posts 363
Batman | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Sep 2 2016 10:31 PM

Thanks. Appreciate it

MJ. Smith:

Batman:
updates are every 6 weeks

The desktop application gets updates every 6 weeks - expanding features, expanding data and/or new features and datasets. The video training that corresponds is usually ready at release or very shortly thereafter. The Morris Proctor documentation is a bit slower. Previews and mobile ed update monthly but mobile ed usually has its items available for about 3 months IIRC.

Posts 1794
Tom | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Sep 3 2016 11:00 AM

Todd Phillips:
Or really they should have just added a licenses screen like Libronix had that showed all licenses and associated resources.

Good idea!

www.hombrereformado.org  Solo a Dios la Gloria   Apoyo

Posts 810
Richard Lyall | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Sep 3 2016 4:36 PM

To return to the thread topic, there are a couple of reasons why I haven't bought the Full Feature Upgrade this time round and probably won't:

  1. For only £15 I get nearly all the new features as part of the Starter Feature Set Upgrade - bargain!
  2. The feature difference between the Starter and the "Full" is not worth an extra £140 to me
  3. I don't need all those obscure interlinears in the "Full" upgrade, which are only included to push up the price of the package. It's meant to be a FEATURE upgrade not an obscure interlinear upgrade.
  4. Some of the features I was really interested in are not included in the misleadingly named "Full" feature upgrade, namely the Bible Browser tool.
  5. Some of the "Full" upgrade features are of no use to me whatsoever e.g. the Sermon writing tool. I already have a well established process for this and have no need to fix what ain't broke by trying to fit a perfectly good process into someone else's way of working.
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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Sep 3 2016 5:23 PM

Richard Lyall:
I don't need all those obscure interlinears in the "Full" upgrade, which are only included to push up the price of the package.

What obscure interlinears? I've only noticed one that users have pleaded for. But I do agree that if they are not of use to you, don't buy them just to "keep up".

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 4722
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Mike Binks | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Sep 3 2016 11:03 PM

Richard Lyall:
Some of the "Full" upgrade features are of no use to me whatsoever e.g. the Sermon writing tool. I already have a well established process for this and have no need to fix what ain't broke by trying to fit a perfectly good process into someone else's way of working.

Me too - but within my process I did not have an efficient way of including quotes in slides for presentation.

For the first time this week I ventured into the Sermon Editor. After completing the sermon I used the editor to construct the visuals. It seems to work well although the bible version was set to my favourite version for study.

Posts 13392
Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Sep 4 2016 1:30 AM

MJ. Smith:
What obscure interlinears?

The reverse and 'normal' interlinears new to L7 are:

  • RSVCE Apocrypha (reverse)
  • NABRE (reverse)
  • Vulgate (reverse and 'normal')
  • Biblical Dead Sea Scrolls ('normal')

Whilst I wouldn't describe them as obscure, the first three are aimed specifically at Catholics, whilst the latter is for niche academic use. For a typical Protestant, they're not terribly attractive, but probably add about $40 to $50 of the cost.

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Sep 4 2016 1:58 AM

Mark Barnes:

The reverse and 'normal' interlinears new to L7 are:

  • RSVCE Apocrypha (reverse)
  • NABRE (reverse)
  • Vulgate (reverse and 'normal')
  • Biblical Dead Sea Scrolls ('normal')

Whilst I wouldn't describe them as obscure, the first three are aimed specifically at Catholics,

Hmmm ... the RSVCE comes close to getting us the common canon of the RSV and NRSV that probably is most used by the mainline Protestants but is the Catholic Edition .... the NABRE is recommended as a solid translation for use in exegesis (see Gorman, Michael J. Elements of Biblical Exegesis: A Basic Guide for Students and Ministers) ... and the Vulgate is the basis for the Western Bible for a millenia. Wonder why I didn't recognize them as obscure (Catholic) resources. Oh wait ... I require the JPS and Peshitta as fundamental translations essential for serious Bible study.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 757
Fr. Charles R. Matheny | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Sep 4 2016 5:38 AM

fwiw: I find this to be the biggest rip-off I have experienced in years.
No more money from me to Logos.

Posts 10767
Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Sep 4 2016 6:02 AM

Now, Richard ... if the DSS interlinear were forced to finish out its pre-pub life, it would be doomed like the English Bibles CP. 

By getting you to pay for it, I can enjoy it. Thank you! This is how life is supposed to be.

Actually, as Bob recently noted, most features/improvement's desirability are limited per user.  For me, the 2 interlinears and the multiple resource panel. The rest I can't remember. For L6, I don't remember any of those. L5's sense lexicon ... that's still struggling ... I'm sure everyone wanted that one (I did, though I think it remains naive).

I'd suspect they package the feature set to hit multiple groups that don't share interests.

Really, Charles?  You couldn't figure out what you were buying before you dazedly pushed the Buy-button? And couldn't struggle with the 10 digits to dial Logos to reverse your mistake?

"I didn't know God made honky tonk angels."

Posts 757
Fr. Charles R. Matheny | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Sep 4 2016 6:15 AM

I did my purchase by phone, didn't get what was presented to me, at least as I understood it.
Seems many are again confused, have great difficulty with upgrade calculators and Logos support indicates its been difficult for them - so, yes, quite frankly its a pain and a great many , including Logos are having trouble with it.

Posts 930
Bill Moore | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Sep 4 2016 11:04 AM

Fr. Charles R. Matheny:

I did my purchase by phone, didn't get what was presented to me, at least as I understood it.
Seems many are again confused, have great difficulty with upgrade calculators and Logos support indicates its been difficult for them - so, yes, quite frankly its a pain and a great many , including Logos are having trouble with it.

To Denise's point, Charles, why not return it and get a refund? If I order something from Logos that isn't what I anticipated (I think it's happened only once), I phone customer service, return it, and am refunded.

As far as confusion goes, some things could definitely have been presented more clearly, but I didn't have any trouble ordering and getting what I wanted. I ordered online and the order itself was fairly basic. My biggest issue was deciding what to order. Once I decided, it was no trouble and the upgrade installation was seamless.

Pastor, Cornerstone Baptist Church, Clinton, SC

Posts 810
Richard Lyall | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Sep 4 2016 2:49 PM

MJ. Smith:

Richard Lyall:
I don't need all those obscure interlinears in the "Full" upgrade, which are only included to push up the price of the package.

What obscure interlinears? I've only noticed one that users have pleaded for. But I do agree that if they are not of use to you, don't buy them just to "keep up".

Try "niche" then. My point was that a "feature" upgrade should not have its price inflated by the inclusion of content, especially not niche content such as non-maintstream interlinears which belong in a library or base package. A bit of a marketing fail to my mind.

There should be a FEATURE ONLY upgrade which only has features and the related datasets. I would have bought this had it been offered.

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PetahChristian | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Sep 4 2016 5:26 PM

Richard Lyall:

Try "niche" then. My point was that a "feature" upgrade should not have its price inflated by the inclusion of content, especially not niche content such as non-maintstream interlinears which belong in a library or base package. A bit of a marketing fail to my mind.

There should be a FEATURE ONLY upgrade which only has features and the related datasets. I would have bought this had it been offered.

As I understand it, some features utilize the reverse interlinears to accomplish what they do.

I imagine that dependency is why the interlinears are bundled with the feature set, instead of in a library.

My top three Logos 9 Wishlist items: Carta, Dark mode, and Hebrew audio bible, please.

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Sep 4 2016 6:19 PM

Richard Lyall:
Try "niche" then. My point was that a "feature" upgrade should not have its price inflated by the inclusion of content, especially not niche content such as non-maintstream interlinears

Unfortunately when I look at Christianity around the world and over the millenia, I see them as very mainstream ... especially the Vulgate - although I would admit that the Septuagint is even more mainstream ... and for many centuries, the Peshitta would be the equal of the Vulgate. Before I became involved in the forums I thought the NRSV, REB and ESV were the primary Protestant versions. I'd never even heard of the HCSB. Questions of cessationism and preterism were not even in my vocabulary.  However, the breadth of the Logos community is such that "mainstream" is understood from the perspective of the region and culture from which we come. "Mainstream" in Duluth is not "mainstream" in New Orleans or Seattle . . . so we all accept our share of the "mainstream" packages that don't reflect our "mainstream" ... or we decide that there is so much outside our experience of "mainstream" that we simply don't purchase the package.

Richard Lyall:
There should be a FEATURE ONLY upgrade which only has features and the related datasets.

From my perspective reverse interlinears are useful solely because of the features that they make possible; they are simply a feature dataset in yet another format. That is why they are marketed in the feature package rather than in libraries ... a lesson pounded into my head this last week as I tried to get Spanish reverse interlinears.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 156
Jesús Polaino | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Sep 4 2016 7:33 PM

Richard Lyall:

To return to the thread topic, there are a couple of reasons why I haven't bought the Full Feature Upgrade this time round and probably won't:

  1. For only £15 I get nearly all the new features as part of the Starter Feature Set Upgrade - bargain!
  2. The feature difference between the Starter and the "Full" is not worth an extra £140 to me
  3. I don't need all those obscure interlinears in the "Full" upgrade, which are only included to push up the price of the package. It's meant to be a FEATURE upgrade not an obscure interlinear upgrade.
  4. Some of the features I was really interested in are not included in the misleadingly named "Full" feature upgrade, namely the Bible Browser tool.
  5. Some of the "Full" upgrade features are of no use to me whatsoever e.g. the Sermon writing tool. I already have a well established process for this and have no need to fix what ain't broke by trying to fit a perfectly good process into someone else's way of working.

 I will not define those interlinears as obscure, but certainly not the most useful for the average user. In my case the difference between the Starter Feature Set and the full one is 181$, which is to much for me. In this, I agree with you that for a lot of Logos's users the upgrade is not worthy of the price.

What I really I cannot understand is why we are not allowed to buy some specific datasets we can be interested in apart of the base packages. I am really interested in the Systematic Theology dataset, which does not need any companion file, it is listed as 9.99$, but you cannot buy it. Why? If I am able to buy the resources I want individually (although in base packages have a very good discounted price), why I cannot buy the datasets I am interested in?

Posts 442
Tony Thomas | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Sep 4 2016 8:05 PM

Jesús Polaino:

Richard Lyall:

To return to the thread topic, there are a couple of reasons why I haven't bought the Full Feature Upgrade this time round and probably won't:

  1. For only £15 I get nearly all the new features as part of the Starter Feature Set Upgrade - bargain!
  2. The feature difference between the Starter and the "Full" is not worth an extra £140 to me
  3. I don't need all those obscure interlinears in the "Full" upgrade, which are only included to push up the price of the package. It's meant to be a FEATURE upgrade not an obscure interlinear upgrade.
  4. Some of the features I was really interested in are not included in the misleadingly named "Full" feature upgrade, namely the Bible Browser tool.
  5. Some of the "Full" upgrade features are of no use to me whatsoever e.g. the Sermon writing tool. I already have a well established process for this and have no need to fix what ain't broke by trying to fit a perfectly good process into someone else's way of working.

 I will not define those interlinears as obscure, but certainly not the most useful for the average user. In my case the difference between the Starter Feature Set and the full one is 181$, which is to much for me. In this, I agree with you that for a lot of Logos's users the upgrade is not worthy of the price.

What I really I cannot understand is why we are not allowed to buy some specific datasets we can be interested in apart of the base packages. I am really interested in the Systematic Theology dataset, which does not need any companion file, it is listed as 9.99$, but you cannot buy it. Why? If I am able to buy the resources I want individually (although in base packages have a very good discounted price), why I cannot buy the datasets I am interested in?

 

I agree with you.   Logos has so many options now but still insists on bundling.  It would be nice if you had the opportunity to buy what you want. 

Director of Zoeproject 

www.zoeproject.com

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