What base package would you recommend?

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Posts 17
Daniel | Forum Activity | Posted: Mon, Sep 5 2016 2:28 AM

I am looking at buying a Logos 7 base package, and I am interested in getting your recommendations. I'll try to provide lots of information about my situation:

I have completed an M.Div, and I am currently in ministry where I preach and teach occasionally (at least monthly). I am very interested in the practice/craft of preaching (think Haddon Robinson or Fred Craddock), but I have generally found better deals on Kindle, so that's where I've been building my preaching library. I also enjoy working with Biblical languages, although I don't find it very helpful for sermon/class prep.

I have bought:

  • Logos 3 Scholar's (~2007)
  • Logos 5 Starter (2014)
  • Technical and pastoral commentary sets (WBC, NAC, NIVAC) when they have been on sale

As you can see, I have been upgrading selectively, skipping even-numbered Logos releases. While my library is fairly small, I have access to several sets (NICOT/NICNT, NIGTC, Pillar NT) elsewhere, so probably won't spend for those.

I currently use Logos to:

  • Read the relevant commentaries for a passage I am researching, teaching about, or preaching on.
  • Look up an occasional Hebrew/Greek word in a passage, looking at the morphology of the current instance or looking for where else it is used. I have hardcopies of Hebrew/Greek lexicons, but I'd like to transition to digital.
  • Find media or maps that might help illustrate for a Sunday school class
  • Create custom Bible reading plans

I am not very interested in:

  • Non-recent resources (say, pre-1900)
  • Most MobileEd courses -- most look fairly comparable to what I've already done in seminary

I am looking at Anglican Bronze right now (though I'm far from Anglican). The NT/OT For Everyone series, The Bible Speaks Today, and Wright's Christian Origins set are all resources I think I'd find useful. Bronze libraries are all about $150 for me; Silver jumps to about $450 (plus the Full Feature Set for both).

I am thinking about paying for the Full Feature Set ($300 for me with a library) -- if I wait 3-4 years to upgrade again it seems like it makes more sense than a Logos Now membership.

I have the Tyndale commentaries on my wishlist, but I'm not sure if the packages that include it are worth it for me. Hermeneia would be nice now that I don't have access to my school's library anymore, but probably beyond my budget.

So...Any thoughts or recommendations? Any resources in the base packages that you think I should be interested in?

Daniel

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Mike Binks | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Sep 5 2016 2:49 AM

Hi D

I am what might be classed as a journeyman preacher so my interest are comparable to yours.

May I make a couple of comments?

D:

I have bought:

  • Logos 3 Scholar's (~2007)
  • Logos 5 Starter (2014)
  • Technical and pastoral commentary sets (WBC, NAC, NIVAC) when they have been on sale

This looks like some judicious purchasing - well done.

D:
As you can see, I have been upgrading selectively, skipping even-numbered Logos releases. While my library is fairly small, I have access to several sets (NICOT/NICNT, NIGTC, Pillar NT) elsewhere, so probably won't spend for those.

Even so if you get a chance of a deal that includes these resources you shouldn't underestimate the value of having them incorporated in your logos library. You may be wise not to spend on them specifically but if you can get them for a marginal cost it will be well worth it.

D:
I am looking at Anglican Bronze right now (though I'm far from Anglican). The NT/OT For Everyone series, The Bible Speaks Today, and Wright's Christian Origins set are all resources I think I'd find useful. Bronze libraries are all about $150 for me; Silver jumps to about $450 (plus the Full Feature Set for both).

There are some very valuable resources in this package - both the 'For Everyone' series will provide you with good guidance and many usable illustrations.

Tom Wright's Christian Origins are essential reading for every minister who tries to make the bible understandable (usually the second half of the books is best). I have been using a reading plan to work my way through all the books and this year it is 'Paul and the Faithfulness of God'.

When you start with the series you will be appalled at the quality of the tagging. Don't let this put you off - the books are invaluable - but please do make your voice heard about the quality - for some reason (which I can't fathom) this series seems to be low on Faithlife's list of priorities.

I notice that you say you are not Anglican, neither am I but the section on 'Liturgy' will also be invaluable. I follow the lectionary when deciding what to preach on (that was a divine instruction) and I do appreciate the 'difficult' readings that I am required to tackle by doing so. There are many other useful books in this section.

I am thinking about paying for the Full Feature Set ($300 for me with a library) -- if I wait 3-4 years to upgrade again it seems like it makes more sense than a Logos Now membership

Here I would disagree - technology is moving so quickly that an (unnecessary) wait for 3-4 years seems unwise. The free engine is made available when there is a new issue of Logos and that, at least, should be taken advantage of. Personally I think the subscription to Logos Now is a better financial route rather than owning features that will certainly be superseded and obsoletes as time goes on.

All in all I don't think you need much advice you seem to be considering a good option.

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SineNomine | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Sep 5 2016 4:47 AM

D:

I am not very interested in:

  • Non-recent resources (say, pre-1900)

Does your non-interest in older resources extend to early Reformation theologians (e.g., Luther, Calvin, Melancthon, etc.) and the earliest Christians (e.g., Ignatius of Antioch, Polycarp, Justin Martyr, etc) and their immediate successors (e.g., Augustine, Athanasius, Jerome...)?

I ask because this affects what I and others may recommend to you.

Posts 17
Daniel | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Sep 5 2016 6:32 AM

Mike,

Thank you for your input. I agree on the value of Wright's books: I have read through the first three books of the Christian Origins set in various NT classes in grad school. I needed to downsize my physical library and sold my copies, anticipating that I could replace them digitally. Now that he's written the fourth volume on Paul (which I haven't read), it makes the set even more appealing.

Posts 17
Daniel | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Sep 5 2016 7:10 AM

SineNomine:

Does your non-interest in older resources extend to early Reformation theologians (e.g., Luther, Calvin, Melancthon, etc.) and the earliest Christians (e.g., Ignatius of Antioch, Polycarp, Justin Martyr, etc) and their immediate successors (e.g., Augustine, Athanasius, Jerome...)?

I ask because this affects what I and others may recommend to you.

Yeah, it applies to the entire span of history. :-) I don't want to completely dismiss 2000 years of Christian thought, but I have two reasons for this:

  1. My tradition has mostly ignored historical Christian thought, both from the Church Fathers and from Reformation-era writers. (I knew very little about any of the names you mentioned until I had Church History courses in seminary.) My audience generally isn't expecting to hear what either Augustine or Luther or Spurgeon thought about a topic. So, while they are still valuable sources, the value is less obvious than it would be in a more-historically aware tradition.
  2. Since this material (or its translations) is typically public domain, I can access a good portion of it from sites like New Advent and CCEL. I can still see the value in having everything tied together by Logos (as Mike pointed out for other resources). But, if my budget is limited, I want to prioritize resources that I don't already have access to somewhere else. 

Daniel

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Graham Criddle | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Sep 5 2016 7:22 AM

D:
Now that he's written the fourth volume on Paul (which I haven't read), it makes the set even more appealing.

Just wanted to point out that there is a companion resource - https://www.logos.com/product/35202/paul-and-his-recent-interpreters - which is also well worth reading.

It is in Anglican Silver but - if there is nothing else in that basepackage you require - it would be cheaper acquiring as a separate resource.

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Friedrich | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Sep 5 2016 8:03 AM

not sure what your budget is, but you might consider Stardard Silver (Tyndale Commentaries, preaching quotations/slides, and a plethora of reference works) or even upgrade to Gold--which adds the MobileEd course "Preaching through the Psalms" (in itself a 300 dollar value).  Anglican Gold also has that, as do a few other Golds.  

If you were not ready to spring for Gold now, you could buy a lower base package in that family and upgrade later on down road.  Likely not at the same discount, but they will have periodic discounts (at least, so far that has been their practice).  You do lose a little money purchasing a lower grade and then later upgrading, however, but not much.  I just got standard gold, and will pay ca. $10 extra if i upgrade to Platinum than I would have if I bought right away.  Not a big deal, but just so you know.

Happy purchasing and studying!

I like Apples.  Especially Honeycrisp.

Posts 3520
SineNomine | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Sep 5 2016 8:17 AM

D:
SineNomine:
Does your non-interest in older resources extend to early Reformation theologians (e.g., Luther, Calvin, Melancthon, etc.) and the earliest Christians (e.g., Ignatius of Antioch, Polycarp, Justin Martyr, etc) and their immediate successors (e.g., Augustine, Athanasius, Jerome...)?

I ask because this affects what I and others may recommend to you.

Yeah, it applies to the entire span of history. :-) I don't want to completely dismiss 2000 years of Christian thought, but I have two reasons for this:

  1. My tradition has mostly ignored historical Christian thought, both from the Church Fathers and from Reformation-era writers. (I knew very little about any of the names you mentioned until I had Church History courses in seminary.) My audience generally isn't expecting to hear what either Augustine or Luther or Spurgeon thought about a topic. So, while they are still valuable sources, the value is less obvious than it would be in a more-historically aware tradition.

This makes sense--it's important to you, with a limited budget, to spend in on things that are principally useful from a professional perspective, rather than for personal use or with a view to further theological education.

D:
Since this material (or its translations) is typically public domain, I can access a good portion of it from sites like New Advent and CCEL. I can still see the value in having everything tied together by Logos (as Mike pointed out for other resources). But, if my budget is limited, I want to prioritize resources that I don't already have access to somewhere else. 

This also makes sense. Be assured that if you win the lottery, we'll be able to recommend the best resources for studying the lives and beliefs of earlier Christians.

Posts 17
Daniel | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Sep 5 2016 8:47 AM

Friedrich:
not sure what your budget is, but you might consider Stardard Silver (Tyndale Commentaries, preaching quotations/slides, and a plethora of reference works) or even upgrade to Gold--which adds the MobileEd course "Preaching through the Psalms" (in itself a 300 dollar value).  Anglican Gold also has that, as do a few other Golds.

This is very helpful, since a "Preaching through the Psalms" course is the kind of focused topic I would be interested in. The "Intro to Gospels/Acts" in many base packages is something I would expect that I've already had some exposure to.

Friedrich:
If you were not ready to spring for Gold now, you could buy a lower base package in that family and upgrade later on down road.  Likely not at the same discount, but they will have periodic discounts (at least, so far that has been their practice).  You do lose a little money purchasing a lower grade and then later upgrading, however, but not much.  I just got standard gold, and will pay ca. $10 extra if i upgrade to Platinumthan I would have if I bought right away.  Not a big deal, but just so you know.

This is another thing I was wondering: If I spend $150 on a Bronze library and $300 on the feature set, what should I expect for my new dynamic pricing? Your post makes it sound like the Silver (from the same tradition) should drop in price by maybe a little less than $150. But what might I expect for other Bronze libraries?

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SineNomine | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Sep 5 2016 8:53 AM

D:
But what might I expect for other Bronze libraries?

This will vary based on how much of what you don't yet have is shared between libraries. I suggest running a comparison of Bronze libraries that you might conceivably be interested in and looking at the shared New to You resources between, say, Anglican Bronze and Methodist & Wesleyan Bronze. Dividing the given values of shared resources by 10 will give you a (very?) rough estimate of how much of an extra discount you will get.

However, the other thing to factor in is that, if you don't have Logos/Verbum Now, you won't benefit (on the second and other libraries) from the discount offered for buying both a Library and a Feature Set in the same transaction.

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Friedrich | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Sep 5 2016 12:34 PM

D:
This is another thing I was wondering: If I spend $150 on a Bronze library and $300 on the feature set,

let me take this is a different direction . . . if you go with Logos Now, you get all of the features up to date, PLUS what will come out in the next year.  You will have to purchase for about 3 years before you spend what the feature set will cost you now.  You can always stop it, too, if you need, and save money.  But here are some other advantages to LN:

  1. A discount on your base package over and above the current introductory discount
  2. By paying less (now) for LN and getting all the features, plus new ones every 6 weeks or so, you could apply that money toward a library (bronze, gold, or whatever) that you really could use at the present time and for the rest of your ministry years.

(you can see all the other benefits of LN on the website)

D:
Your post makes it sound like the Silver (from the same tradition) should drop in price by maybe a little less than $150.

Whatever the difference from what Silver costs for you "now" and current Bronze price, but not exactly--add a little more to that difference.  For instance, Platinum for me is no $405 dollars, but if I had gone STRAIGHT to Platinum, instead of sticking with Gold purchase, I would have only paid another $395 for Platinum than I paid for Gold.  How much exactly that difference is will depend on small variables, which I don't know...

And as others pointed out, the cost from Bronze to Silver (or whatever levels) from tradition to tradition (Anglican, Pentecostal, or whatever) will depend on how many and what type of resources you already own in that level.

One of the things I did when making my purchase this time around was to look at the various packages and see a) what major sets I wanted (commentaries, dictionaries, journals, author sets, etc) and b) other resources (Mobile Ed, monographs, etc) I REALLY wanted.  I made a table highlighting those resources and their cost.  For instance, in Standard Gold, I liked that I could finish my Pillar set, Goldingay, plus get some good Mobile Ed courses, etc.  I totaled up the cost of those resources I wanted if I bought them individually, and compared them to the upgrade for the package.  There were many resources I would not really care about in the package, so I only focused on what I thought I really wanted.  I also noted a few that might be 'nice" but not necessary (like New Daily Study Bible).  I did this for several packages.  In Pentecostal, I noticed I could complete my Cornerstone commentary set with Bronze, for instance.  I placed them side by side.  From there it was kind of an intuitive process--ie, I can't get ALL I want, I have to make a choice: do i REALLY want/need a particular set?  Or, if I could get that set in a couple different ways (by buying different traditions), which way gave me either the "best value" or perhaps set me up for a purchase to the next level later on.  By that, I mean, getting Gold Standard sets me up for Platinum, in which I will be glad to get Hermeneia, Moltmann, and a far expanded Classics of Western Spirituality.  Getting Silver in Pentecostal would set me up for getting some other sets: New Monastics library, Priscilla Papers (had to find out what those were, first!)  History of Interpretation 4-volume set, Donald Bloesch set (which I actually already got with Standard Gold), etc.

What I noticed is that I could get all hyped up on value (dollar wise) of sets, but then a little reflection might make me doubt how much I would really use a particular set at this time.  Hermeneia is kind of like that for me.  Its a phenomenal work, but I have not always found it helpful unless doing technical studies and wanting source material etc.  But knowing that it is a 'great set" and would "only" cost me 400 to get it plus a lot more makes it easy to start ramping up my wish list.  But . . . I might spend that $400 dollars better elsewhere.  Like food for the table or an anniversary gift...Stick out tongue

I like Apples.  Especially Honeycrisp.

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Sep 5 2016 3:12 PM

D:
I am thinking about paying for the Full Feature Set ($300 for me with a library) -- if I wait 3-4 years to upgrade again it seems like it makes more sense than a Logos Now membership.

It does? For me, it doesn't make sense. For $100 per year, you can be continually "up to date" and beyond (L8 features will begin to roll out soon via Logos Now). Additionally, LN brings freebies and discounts on other things. 

I believe strongly in ownership of books, rental of features... but I know others don't want to rent anything. 

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DAL | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Sep 5 2016 4:34 PM

A well balanced base package with newer and older resources is Wesleyan/Methodist Platinum. Some examples are: Interpretation commentaries, OT and NT Library series, Hermeneia NT, Walter Brueggeman collection -- these alone can be expensive if you bought them separately.  The other great deal besides this one and standard Platinum is Baptist Platinum.

DAL

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Friedrich | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Sep 5 2016 8:52 PM

DAL:
A well balanced base package with newer and older resources is Wesleyan/Methodist Platinum

I did seriously look at this one.  I ended up just getting bronze, but maybe one day . . . 

I like Apples.  Especially Honeycrisp.

Posts 17
Daniel | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Sep 13 2016 12:55 AM

Thank you all for you input. It has helped me think through this.

Those of you suggesting Logos Now have made me reconsider buying the Full Feature Set. The price tag on the FFS does seem really high; I assume to make people think hard about subscribing instead.

But I still don't think LN is a good fit for me either... In its favor: I have been a consistent Logos user for 10 years now, so it doesn't seem likely that I would stop my subscription and lose the rental features. However, I'm also considering just my second upgrade in 10 years, and I feel like I've been pretty content without always having all of the latest features. (And, if in the future a new feature is released that I really can't live without, then I can always start subscribing then.) 

Instead, you've made me reconsider the Starter Feature Set (~$60). I lose the boasted Sermon Editor, which I admit could be a really useful tool. But I've heard enough comments along the lines of "It's really great, but I've already got a process for developing sermons" that I'm okay with waiting on it. I still get a good chunk of media and interactives; not sure what else I might miss in the FFS.

So that would be the Anglican Bronze Library + Starter Feature Set for about $210. For a hesitant spender like me, that seems like a great set of resources for the price.

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Friedrich | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Sep 13 2016 6:49 AM

D:
So that would be the Anglican Bronze Library + Starter Feature Set for about $210. For a hesitant spender like me, that seems like a great set of resources for the price.

It's certainly great to come to a resolution on this, and you have certainly put some thought into it.  Now it is time to explore and enjoy!  Thanks for letting us in on your exploration and purchase!

I like Apples.  Especially Honeycrisp.

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