Bug?: Specifying that a word does not exist

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Posted: Tue, Oct 11 2016 5:14 PM

The base query is "Lord Jesus Christ"

Now I want occurrences of "Jesus Chrst" without "Lord":

Changing only Existence does not work as e.g. Acts 11:17 is shown. Changing that and unticking the first Within works as expected, but I was expecting ""Does not exist" to be sufficient.

EDIT:  I've also have to untick In Order otherwise it is free to appear AFTER "Jesus Christ", but I don't understand the result with Within 1 Word included - why is Acts 11:17 included?

Dave
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Scott Fleischman | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 12 2016 1:50 PM

This is how I would find the phrase "Jesus Christ" that is not preceded by "Lord".

"Does not exist" is a bit tricky, because it will find:

A) results that assume the existence of a word that does not match the criteria as well as

B) return results where there is no word at all in that space.

I realize that is subtle, so here is an example to help clarify it.

Make the scope "1 verse". Say we want to find verses that have "Jesus Christ" but are not preceded by "Lord".

We want this to include places where "Jesus Christ" is in the middle of a verse and the word before it is not "Lord". This is scenario A) above.

We also want to include places where "Jesus Christ" is at the beginning of the verse, such as Heb 13:8. Since "Jesus Christ" is at the beginning of the verse, there is no word before it (in that verse). This is scenario B) above.

In my query, "Jesus Christ" must be adjacent, so I have a proximity of 2 for those words.

I also want to only exclude cases where "Lord" directly precedes "Jesus" so I can either do a proximity of 2 words between "Lord" and "Jesus" or a proximity of 3 words for all 3 words with the same results either way.

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Oct 14 2016 11:10 AM

Scott, we're using different versions of the engine because Segments isn't available and proximity doesn't work as you describe

I get 60 in 58 verses incl Heb 13.8 as described in my post (by unticking both Constraints)

Dave
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Scott Fleischman | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Oct 14 2016 2:00 PM

I can replicate your behavior—it's the same engine.

"Segments" is used when there is a Hebrew or Aramaic text the resource list. If I had selected just "SBLGNT" then it would be "Words".

Also note that when you say something like "within 1 word" with 3 columns checked, it would always return zero results. Rather than returning nothing, the engine effectively bumps that up to "within 3 words" which is the minimum proximity constraint for 3 columns.

Starting with your query, all results have "Jesus Christ" in the results.

With both "within 1 words" unchecked and "in order" unchecked for "Lord", that omits versus with "Lord" anywhere in it. For example, that omits Acts 10:36 which has "Lord" at the very end of the verse.

Here is a screenshot showing both your query and mine.

With "within 1 words" (note this is really "within 3 words") checked for "Lord", that will find all 3-word windows that don't have "Lord" in them. That means there can be a 3 word window such as "Jesus Christ with" that satisfies those requirements, even though the word "Lord" appears immediately before that window, such as "Lord Jesus Christ with". The results are the same whether or not "Lord" is checked for the "In order" constraint or not. That is because the window "Jesus Christ with" satisfies the requirement that "Lord" is not in it, which is true no matter what requirement we add about where "Lord" should or should not be.

In the second screenshot, I drew a box around the window showing why that result is returned. Note that the underlined "Lord" is not part of that window.

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Oct 14 2016 5:00 PM

Scott Fleischman:
With "within 1 words" (note this is really "within 3 words") checked for "Lord", that will find all 3-word windows that don't have "Lord" in them.

Ok, back to the "window" concept. I thought it was WITHIN 1 WORD of each other (akin to the text search proximity), so Lord couldn't exist adjacent to Jesus.

Dave
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Windows 10 & Android 8

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