Who is Santiago?

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Jack Hairston | Forum Activity | Posted: Sat, Dec 24 2016 6:19 AM

The Greek name Ἰάκωβος is translated as "James" in English Bibles for political reasons--always s good idea to suck up to the Boss. But in Spanish Bibles the same Greek name is always "Jacobo" except in the books of James and Jude, where it is "Santiago."1777.James.xlsx

I have always understood that the Book of James was written by the same person as James in Acts 15, the (half-) brother of Jesus.

After digging through all my Logos resources, I'm no nearer to an answer. Can you tell me where to look, so I can explain this to my Spanish-speaking brothers?

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Graham Criddle | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 24 2016 6:45 AM

Jack Hairston:
But in Spanish Bibles the same Greek name is always "Jacobo" except in the books of James and Jude, where it is "Santiago."1777.James.xlsx

Do you have "All the People in the Bible"

According to tradition, before his death James was a missionary to Spain, and he is the patron saint of that nation. Tradition says that after his martyrdom his body was carried back to Spain, where it is buried at Santiago de Compostela (Santiago being Spanish for “Saint James”).

Richard R. Losch, All the People in the Bible: An A–Z Guide to the Saints, Scoundrels, and Other Characters in Scripture (Grand Rapids, MI; Cambridge, U.K.: William B. Eerdmans Publishing Company, 2008), 186.

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Jack Hairston | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 24 2016 7:15 AM

Hmmm. I saw that, but rejected it because of Jude.

If James ben Zebedee was also known as "Santiago," I wonder how Jude, his brother of the eponymous book, fits into the picture? [scratching ear in confusion] If there is a consistent explanation, it's bound to be amazing.

Thanks, Graham, for taking a whack at this.

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DMB | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 24 2016 7:26 AM

Very interesting question. The latin matched the greek, transliterating the earlier. 

Edited: Oxford has a nice sequence:

Essentially the softening of the 'b' to 'm'. The 'g' in Santiago, I assume is arabic-influenced.

OT-ish: This is a good example where Logos would benefit from a not-concise Oxford. Even the 1/3 Oxford has a lot of depth.  Not sure of the Collins one currently in Logos.

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Paul | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Dec 25 2016 10:40 PM

Graham Criddle:

Jack Hairston:
But in Spanish Bibles the same Greek name is always "Jacobo" except in the books of James and Jude, where it is "Santiago."1777.James.xlsx

Do you have "All the People in the Bible"

According to tradition, before his death James was a missionary to Spain, and he is the patron saint of that nation. Tradition says that after his martyrdom his body was carried back to Spain, where it is buried at Santiago de Compostela (Santiago being Spanish for “Saint James”).

Richard R. Losch, All the People in the Bible: An A–Z Guide to the Saints, Scoundrels, and Other Characters in Scripture (Grand Rapids, MI; Cambridge, U.K.: William B. Eerdmans Publishing Company, 2008), 186.

One internet source suggests that old Spanish has something to do with "Santiago":

Given Name SANTIAGO. USAGE: Spanish, Portuguese. PRONOUNCED: sahn-TYAH-go (Spanish) [key] Means "Saint James", derived from Spanish santo "saint" combined with Yago, an old Spanish form of JAMES, the patron saint of Spain.

Source: http://www.behindthename.com/name/santiago

Keep well 

Paul

 

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 26 2016 1:52 AM

Denise:
Edited: Oxford has a nice sequence:

wikipedia shows a different but related view of the history:

Santiago, (also San Iago, San Tiago, Santyago, Sant-Yago, San Thiago) is a Spanish name that derives from the Hebrew name Jacob (Ya'akov) via "Sant Iago", "Sant Yago", "Santo Iago", or "Santo Yago", first used to denote Saint James the Great, the brother of John the Apostle. It was also the tradition that Saint James (Santiago) had traveled to the Iberian Peninsula during his life and was buried there. The name is also complicated in Spanish in that Jaime and Jacobo are modern versions of James.

Variants of Santiago include Iago (a common Galician language name), and Thiago or Tiago (a common Portuguese language name). The common name James has many forms in Iberia, including Xacobo or Xacobe (in Galician), Jaume, Xaume, Jaime, Jacobo, and Diego (in Spanish). Despite being a cognate, San Diego does not refer to Saint Jacob but to Saint Didacus of Alcalá.

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Robert M. Warren | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 26 2016 5:23 PM

Jack Hairston:
If James ben Zebedee was also known as "Santiago," I wonder how Jude, his brother of the eponymous book, fits into the picture? [scratching ear in confusion] If there is a consistent explanation, it's bound to be amazing.

If I understand your paragraph correctly, I think you're conflating two different families with sons named James.

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Jack Hairston | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 26 2016 8:08 PM

Robert M. Warren:

If I understand your paragraph correctly, I think you're conflating two different families with sons named James.

That IS the point. Santiago points to the Apostle, John's brother, but Jude's brother James wrote the book of James. Why wouldn't Spanish translators be consistent and use the name "Santiago" in the rest of the New Testament. It looks to me like they made a mistake and feel like it's too late to change it. (If a new Spanish translation were to do that, would people buy it? Bible publishers want to sell books.)

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Ben | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 26 2016 8:45 PM

"The Greek name Ἰάκωβος is translated as "James" in English Bibles for political reasons--always s good idea to suck up to the Boss."

Not the case. Earlier English Bibles such as Tyndale also used James. 

I suspect the Spanish translators are using the two different descendent names to distinguish people. In Latin, iacobus>iacomus, then the c dropped out in some dialects, giving iamus, or James. 

"The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected."- G.K. Chesterton

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Jack Hairston | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 27 2016 6:54 AM

Ben:

"The Greek name Ἰάκωβος is translated as "James" in English Bibles for political reasons--always s good idea to suck up to the Boss."

Not the case. Earlier English Bibles such as Tyndale also used James. 

I suspect the Spanish translators are using the two different descendent names to distinguish people. In Latin, iacobus>iacomus, then the c dropped out in some dialects, giving iamus, or James. 

Thanks, Ben. I was both misinformed and do not have a copy of Tyndale. But now that I cross-check the Clementine Vulgate, I see Jerome's input. The Book of James is listed as "Epistola Catholica B. Jacobi Apostoli" and Jude is listed as "Epistola Catholica B. Judæ Apostoli." No wonder Spanish translators identify Santiago with the Apostle.

The Logos library banishes ignorance again.

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Robert M. Warren | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 27 2016 2:23 PM

Jack Hairston:
That IS the point.

Sorry, my irony detector is apparently on the fritz.

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