Please Help: Logos 7 SO SLOW!

Page 2 of 3 (51 items) < Previous 1 2 3 Next >
This post has 50 Replies | 4 Followers

Posts 13359
Forum MVP
Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 23 2017 1:33 AM

Cynthia in Florida:
My Concordance tool has been working for almost 5 minutes and the blue bar is only half the way through!

The first time you run a concordance, it will be slow. Subsequent runs of the same resource will be much quicker. Slowest is reverse-interlinear Bibles. 9 minutes for a first-time generation of reverse-interlinear on a computer with a traditional drive is probably about right. If you've an SSD, or it wasn't an RI Bible, then perhaps something is wrong.

Posts 744
Armin | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 23 2017 2:20 AM

Cynthia in Florida:

Perhaps I have the flu and you have a cold? Smile

I should be grateful that I only have a cold! Smile

Posts 744
Armin | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 23 2017 2:21 AM

Mark Barnes:

Usually slowdowns come from:

  1. Too many, or overly-complex layouts.
  2. Too many, or too broad visual filters.
  3. Too many, or overly-complex collections.

In my case, I drastically simplified my layouts, don't use many visual filters, and the deletion of many collections did not make a difference. Sad

Posts 809
Cynthia in Florida | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 23 2017 3:26 AM

Mark Barnes:

Cynthia in Florida:
My Concordance tool has been working for almost 5 minutes and the blue bar is only half the way through!

The first time you run a concordance, it will be slow. Subsequent runs of the same resource will be much quicker. Slowest is reverse-interlinear Bibles. 9 minutes for a first-time generation of reverse-interlinear on a computer with a traditional drive is probably about right. If you've an SSD, or it wasn't an RI Bible, then perhaps something is wrong.

Hello Mark:

Thanks for your responses.

The thing is, it wasn't my first time running the concordance.

Also, it wasn't a RI Bible.

I will check my visual filters, which I do tend to use quite a bit.  Are you saying that just by owning them, even though that panel is closed when trying to run the concordance, would cause a substantial delay?

Cynthia

Romans 8:28-38

Posts 809
Cynthia in Florida | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 23 2017 3:29 AM

Mark Barnes:

Usually slowdowns come from:

  1. Too many, or overly-complex layouts.
  2. Too many, or too broad visual filters.
  3. Too many, or overly-complex collections.

Don't worry about hidden resources. They're very rarely an issue, and according to your log, they're only adding 0.5s to your startup time.

In your case:

  • Your layout seems OK, and you're running 7.3 which solved a big part of the layout slowdown.
  • You don't have many collections, though some of them are quite broad. Collections have to be recalculated every time your library changes. In at least one set of logs, you received silent metadata updates during startup, so collections ended up being calculated three times, at an average of about 3.2s each time. Your library catalog was also updated at the same time, which took an extra 8s. There's not much you can do about this unless you definitely don't need some of the collections (but that's not going to make a huge different).
  • But visual filters is more of a problem. You said you don't do any original language work, but you seem to have have dozens of morphological filters (possibly in the NASB?), which are certainly slowing things down. If you don't need these, you should delete them. If you don't want to delete them, but rarely use them, you could temporarily move the visual filter to a resource you don't access, and then move it back when you need it.

Perhaps I misunderstood the question, but I thought he asked if I WAS doing original language work, not if I do ANY original language work.  At the time of the problem, I closed everything in Logos (and my laptop),so that nothing else was on my screen except trying to run the tool.

Cynthia

Romans 8:28-38

Posts 13359
Forum MVP
Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 23 2017 5:05 AM

Cynthia in Florida:
I will check my visual filters, which I do tend to use quite a bit.  Are you saying that just by owning them, even though that panel is closed when trying to run the concordance, would cause a substantial delay?

I wasn't commenting on your Concordance issues at that point, as your logs don't include you running the concordance. Logs that include the problems with the blank panels might possibly be helpful in diagnosing that.

The visual filters will run every time you open the resource that they relate to. If you have a visual filter that doesn't specify a resource, then it will run when any resource is opened.

I've checked your Visual Filters, and it seems that you have around 145 of them (not necessarily 145 documents, but 145 separate search criteria within your documents). That means that whenever you open the resource(s) that those visual filters are attached to, then Logos will need to run 145 searches to do the markup — and a lot of those searches will return thousands of results.

I'm not saying you should delete the Visual Filters if they're useful to you. They certainly won't solve your concordance problems. But if you want to your opening of your NASB (if that's the resource used by the Visual Filters), then deleting unwanted filters will certainly help.

Posts 809
Cynthia in Florida | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 23 2017 5:45 AM

Hello Mark:

thanks for your follow up.  Everything you said makes sense to me.

i do have a question though.  You said that my logs didn't show me trying to open concordance. Yet when logging, I tried to

open it three times and got the screen I showed in my responses above.  Thoughts?

Cynthia

Romans 8:28-38

Posts 284
Pastor Michael Huffman | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 23 2017 6:01 AM

Cynthia in Florida:

FYI:  No matter what I do, I can't get my courses to open.  Plain white screen opens, and at the bottom left all I see is this:

Save

Many are experiencing the same look of the courses tool and it is Logos Problem and they are working on that. In my experience, if you open it is a floating window it will show your courses and this is a good workaround. 

Posts 786
Jack Hairston | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 23 2017 6:45 AM

My Logos speed is much faster after I disconnected all Notes files from all resources except to my favorite Bible.

Posts 555
John Kaess | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 23 2017 8:01 AM

I feel compelled to jump in here.

1. With the introduction of 7.3 on the Mac all sorts of things started going wrong. Not just for me, but for many. The Home page does not display properly, different tools don't load, etc, etc. Logos is aware of these problems, and claim to be working on them. I'd love to know how 7.3 got through beta without Logos knowing about these severe problems.

2. If someone has a reasonably specced computer (not 5 years old) and has sufficient memory (for me, 16 gigs is the sweet spot) then all this advice in this entire thread amounts to this in my opinion: You have spent THOUSANDS of dollars on a sophisticated and powerful piece of software, that will only work adequately if you don't use most of its features. The advice i see here is: disable a, b, c. Simplify your layouts, don't hide resources, don't do language work, don't use the concordance, etc, etc.

This is absurd. There should only be two answers to this kind of problem:

1. Your computer is old and under powered for this software to run properly or you need more memory for it to run well (and this should absolutely, truthfully be reflected in the required specs for the software)

2. Logos has screwed up and their software has problems which Logos should be actively, intentionally, publicly, and with all available resources and personnel, addressing.

NONE of the "help" in this thread says either of those things. It all keeps telling her how to disable features and not use things so the software will work. This is wrong. Logos needs to give true specs needed for their software to run properly and they need to be addressing these problems which have existed for weeks now since 7.3 came out. I'm becoming impatient.

To summarize:

The first question to Cynthia should be: what are the exact specs of your computer. If those specs meet the requirements Logos has given, then step two is to have Logos address why the software is not running properly on her computer.

I confess I'm writing from a Mac perspective where all the hardware is easily known and universal in type and scope. The world is a little different in the windows world.

Posts 13359
Forum MVP
Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 23 2017 8:15 AM

John Kaess:
2. If someone has a reasonably specced computer (not 5 years old) and has sufficient memory (for me, 16 gigs is the sweet spot) then all this advice in this entire thread amounts to this in my opinion: You have spent THOUSANDS of dollars on a sophisticated and powerful piece of software, that will only work adequately if you don't use most of its features. The advice i see here is: disable a, b, c. Simplify your layouts, don't hide resources, don't do language work, don't use the concordance, etc, etc.

That isn't the case at all. I'm sympathetic if there are bugs in the Mac version that are causing serious problems, but let's not confuse the two issues of bugs and optimisation. Cynthia appears to be suffering from both problems. Her screenshots suggest a bug, her logs suggest a couple of optimisation issues.

On the optimisation side, no-one's saying that the software doesn't work adequately unless you don't use most of it's features.

One user suggested that hiding over 800 resources might overtax the system (though it makes only a very small difference). I suggested running 145 searches — most with thousands of hits — when you open a resource might also result in a slow down. That's surely understandable. On similar threads there's been an issue with hundreds of layouts (now fixed in 7.3), and with hundreds of very complex collections.

Suggesting that people wanting fast systems only retain the visual filters and collections that they need is good advice, and still allows you to to get the most out of all the features available. That's because there aren't many situations where you need to run 145 searches (visual filters) at the same time. Limiting that scenario to just the times it's useful is good advice.

Posts 10177
Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 23 2017 9:30 AM

I agree with John. Users with no computer degree (or not geeks) should be able to use Bible software pretty much transparently.  From early on, special drives, eliminating basic feature use, and long forum threads have been the common answer.

I can only speak to my own experience (and being excessively geekish), L7 compared to L5, has serious issues that likely vary relative to specific users. I have no notes, no filters (accidentally deleted them), no sync all the time (offline). My only 'feature' is one layout and links. And it's excruciatingly unusable. I'm just sitting, waiting to see what they do next.


Posts 982
John Goodman | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 23 2017 9:36 AM

I have an intel core 2 duo macbook with only 4gigs of ram which I tend to leave plugged in by the sofa in my lounge. It isn't my main workstation and it dates back to 2008. It runs Logos smoothly with 6000 resources, notes, visual filters, collections etc. It is certainly possible to make it slow down by using a complex features. There are waits of 3-5 secs for some searches. It doesn't feel as smooth as my i7 with 16gb of ram dating back to 2011, which does most things instantly but that isn't surprising.

Given the above, I'm confident that the machines you folks are using must be suitable and certainly the software is capable.

There must be some explanation such as a corrupted file or more specific glitch going on. Either that or you are driving the software very hard without realizing it? Logos is the sort of program which highly benefits from an SSD - if that helps?

גַּם־חֹשֶׁךְ֮ לֹֽא־יַחְשִׁ֪יךְ מִ֫מֶּ֥ךָ וְ֭לַיְלָה כַּיּ֣וֹם יָאִ֑יר כַּ֝חֲשֵׁיכָ֗ה כָּאוֹרָֽה

Posts 555
John Kaess | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 23 2017 10:01 AM

I deleted my post. I didn't mean to hijack this thread with a separate problem.

Posts 982
John Goodman | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 23 2017 10:13 AM

I think you need to make a support call - I'm sure they will be able to help you because as you say the machine is up to spec and the usage you describe is very reasonable.

I found after a recent update that some of my layouts were glitchy and so I had to make them again... that might be worth a try?

גַּם־חֹשֶׁךְ֮ לֹֽא־יַחְשִׁ֪יךְ מִ֫מֶּ֥ךָ וְ֭לַיְלָה כַּיּ֣וֹם יָאִ֑יר כַּ֝חֲשֵׁיכָ֗ה כָּאוֹרָֽה

Posts 809
Cynthia in Florida | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 23 2017 12:07 PM

Mark Barnes:

Cynthia in Florida:
I will check my visual filters, which I do tend to use quite a bit.  Are you saying that just by owning them, even though that panel is closed when trying to run the concordance, would cause a substantial delay?

I wasn't commenting on your Concordance issues at that point, as your logs don't include you running the concordance. Logs that include the problems with the blank panels might possibly be helpful in diagnosing that.

The visual filters will run every time you open the resource that they relate to. If you have a visual filter that doesn't specify a resource, then it will run when any resource is opened.

I've checked your Visual Filters, and it seems that you have around 145 of them (not necessarily 145 documents, but 145 separate search criteria within your documents). That means that whenever you open the resource(s) that those visual filters are attached to, then Logos will need to run 145 searches to do the markup — and a lot of those searches will return thousands of results.

I'm not saying you should delete the Visual Filters if they're useful to you. They certainly won't solve your concordance problems. But if you want to your opening of your NASB (if that's the resource used by the Visual Filters), then deleting unwanted filters will certainly help.

Hello Mark:

Sorry, recall that I am not too bright in the "under the hood" lingo.  Please help me understand.  When you say I have 145 visual filters, do you mean visual filter SETS, or do you mean I have created 145 individual filters.  For instance.  When I am teaching a book of the Bible, I create a highlighting palette (think inductive Bible study).  I then create a visual filter set for that highlighting palette.  I put a LOT of work into them, and even after I'm done teaching the book, I keep it because who knows when I will need it again.  Now, when I click on visual filters on my pull down when in a Bible, I don't get anything CLOSE to 145 visual filters, so I'm a bit confused here.

Cynthia

Romans 8:28-38

Posts 809
Cynthia in Florida | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 23 2017 12:13 PM

John Kaess:

I feel compelled to jump in here.

1. With the introduction of 7.3 on the Mac all sorts of things started going wrong. Not just for me, but for many. The Home page does not display properly, different tools don't load, etc, etc. Logos is aware of these problems, and claim to be working on them. I'd love to know how 7.3 got through beta without Logos knowing about these severe problems.

2. If someone has a reasonably specced computer (not 5 years old) and has sufficient memory (for me, 16 gigs is the sweet spot) then all this advice in this entire thread amounts to this in my opinion: You have spent THOUSANDS of dollars on a sophisticated and powerful piece of software, that will only work adequately if you don't use most of its features. The advice i see here is: disable a, b, c. Simplify your layouts, don't hide resources, don't do language work, don't use the concordance, etc, etc.

This is absurd. There should only be two answers to this kind of problem:

1. Your computer is old and under powered for this software to run properly or you need more memory for it to run well (and this should absolutely, truthfully be reflected in the required specs for the software)

2. Logos has screwed up and their software has problems which Logos should be actively, intentionally, publicly, and with all available resources and personnel, addressing.

NONE of the "help" in this thread says either of those things. It all keeps telling her how to disable features and not use things so the software will work. This is wrong. Logos needs to give true specs needed for their software to run properly and they need to be addressing these problems which have existed for weeks now since 7.3 came out. I'm becoming impatient.

To summarize:

The first question to Cynthia should be: what are the exact specs of your computer. If those specs meet the requirements Logos has given, then step two is to have Logos address why the software is not running properly on her computer.

I confess I'm writing from a Mac perspective where all the hardware is easily known and universal in type and scope. The world is a little different in the windows world.

Hello John:  Much of what you wrote, I thought, but since I'm not as computer literate as you all, I try to just get help to solve the problem.  To answer your question:

I bought my Mac last year (2016)

Model Name:    MacBook Pro
  Model Identifier:    MacBookPro11,3
  Processor Name:    Intel Core i7
  Processor Speed:    2.5 GHz
  Number of Processors:    1
  Total Number of Cores:    4
  L2 Cache (per Core):    256 KB
  L3 Cache:    6 MB
  Memory:    16 GB
  Boot ROM Version:    MBP112.0138.B18

I have a SSD, 500 gigs (119 gigs still available).

Shouldn't that run my software without it being attributed to hardware?

Cynthia

Romans 8:28-38

Posts 3217
Forum MVP
PetahChristian | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 23 2017 12:34 PM

Cynthia in Florida:
Shouldn't that run my software without it being attributed to hardware?

I have the same MacBook Pro, and Logos is responsive for me, from startup, to switching layouts, to shutdown.

I hide all Perseus resources, so I can certainly say that hiding a large number of resources has not been an issue for me.

My layouts use Multiview where possible instead of link sets, but I still think they are complex, considering how many panes and tabs are open by default. However, I only use two visual filters. Perhaps Logos would slow down for me if I had many more.

I am only starting out with Biblical Hebrew, so I don't do a lot of language work, but when I do use various tools and features, I don't experience any slowdown with the program.

I have also used the Concordance tool. Although it may take 3-5 minutes to initially build the index for certain resources, it is responsive once the index has been built. (Keep in mind that the tool only retains the ten most recent concordances. If you are building concordances for many resources, this will cause older ones to be deleted, and need to be rebuilt.)

Our systems are not underpowered, and we don't need to refrain from using certain features, but we do need to be aware of what can cumulatively slow down the program, and bring it to the attention of FL, so they can improve the program. I.e., an issue with the program taking minutes to open a layout, because that database had thousands of layouts that were never (automatically) deleted.

I hope FL and MVPs can help you determine the exact issue(s) that are affecting the program, as it certainly isn't a problem with the computer you're using.

Posts 809
Cynthia in Florida | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 23 2017 1:43 PM

Okay all:  I just got off the phone with FL Support.  The few times I have had to call them (these forums usually help fix my problems!Smile) reminds me how amazing they are.

As stated by Petah, the tech said that my hardware is more than ample to run Logos beautifully, without any concern of visual filters, hidden resources, an abundance of collections, notes, etc.

So, here's the scoop.  I had two issues going on, and the problem was that we (and this includes the tech at first) approached it as one.  The home page (a known issue to most) and the courses tool  (a known issue to some) is ONE issue that they know about and the issues are linked.  Developers are working on a fix.

However, the Bible Browser and the Concordance tools were another issue that was connected.  After connecting remotely to my computer, she clicked around for quite some time, looking at my settings and duplicating the problem is various ways.  In the meantime, she was also on with the development team, speaking with them, creating logs, etc., etc.  Ultimately, it was the clearing of the web cache that immediately fixed the problem and makes my Bible Browser and Concordance FLY!!!  So, she taught me how to do that, which is good in case I have to do it in the future, and that was that.

99% of the time, I get my help from here, and the help is wonderful because then I don't have to be on the phone for an hour. However, I think this is probably my fourth or fifth time in 7 years that I've HAD to call support.  I'm glad I did because she said something that made me really happy.

You know how I keep saying I have no clue what I'm doing? I constantly think I'm going to screw up so badly because I feel like I'm always winging it. Well, she ended the phone call by saying that I am "using Logos as it is intended to be used."  She explained that the way I create note files, the way I create highlighting palettes and then use that to create visual filters, etc., etc., is exactly how Logos was intended to be used and that's why I don't have an issue with thousands of individual notes slowing down my software, etc, etc.  That was encouraging to me because I get so STINKING FRUSTRATED trying to understand this software...every time I think I got it, in comes the upgrade with a bunch of NEW stuff to learn (I'm not complaining here, I'm just always behind the eight ball). 

So, I can't close this out without saying that years ago, it was MARK BARNES' Logos 4 Unofficial Videos that taught me, among other things, how to properly keep organized note files, how to create highlighting palettes, how to create visual filters from my highlighting paletts, and how to create collections. THANK YOU MARK!  I really appreciate you.

Thank you everyone else for all your help in trying to solve this problem. For now, I will use the "work around" for the home page and courses issue, trusting that they are working diligently to rectify the problem.

Blessings!

Cynthia

Romans 8:28-38

Posts 555
John Kaess | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 23 2017 2:05 PM

Cynthia in Florida:

Shouldn't that run my software without it being attributed to hardware?

Absolutely. That's a very powerful Mac set up, fully capable of running Logos 7 when they fix the bugs.

John

Page 2 of 3 (51 items) < Previous 1 2 3 Next > | RSS