No NEW Journals - why not?

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This post has 626 Replies | 20 Followers

Posts 5737
DAL | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Oct 26 2018 10:48 AM

 For me the key journals that I have are good enough. There is no point in me adding a masters collection with a bunch of other journals that I will probably never use. Sometimes less is better if you are selective.

DAL

Posts 562
Dale E Heath | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Oct 26 2018 2:47 PM

I was surprised to see my name on the list as I really didn't participate very much in a helpful way. My first purchase of journals was Master 2.1 because it was on sale and seemed like a good value. I didn't purchase Master 3.1 because I hadn't digested much of 2.1 and then 4.1 came out fairly shortly thereafter, so I pre-ordered that. There isn't all that much difference between 3.1 and 4.1, but I'm conflicted between availability and value. I should probably have my sales rep give me a DP between 3.1 and 4.1 to see what the numbers are. I'm also a little reluctant to purchase 3.1 until FL settles the discussions that are currently going on. If I had to choose today, I would vote on minimal tagging and quicker availability. Lower cost would be a plus. My priorities are 1. availability, 2. cost, 3. tagging. If I could have it quickly and cheaply, I could forgo tagging. But, that's just me.

Phil: if you put Master 3.1 on sale, which is available now, I think a lot of people would buy it.

https://www.logos.com/product/147726/master-journal-bundle-31

Posts 8970
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Mark Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Oct 26 2018 3:10 PM

Phil Gons (Faithlife):
About 80 people have participated in the discussion over the last two years, spanning 582 posts and 30 pages. About 20 people have posted more than 5 times.

You forgot to mention that this thread has been viewed over 300,000 times! I know I've viewed it many times in hopes of some answers without posting. Maybe the 80 of us are the only ones concerned, but 300,000 views does suggest otherwise.

Pastor, North Park Baptist Church

Bridgeport, CT USA

Posts 255
Roger Dittmar | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Oct 26 2018 3:15 PM

Mark Smith:
You forgot to mention that this thread has been viewed over 300,000 times! I know I've viewed it many times in hopes of some answers without posting.

Yes

Posts 1867
Nathan Parker | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Oct 26 2018 6:03 PM

Phil Gons (Faithlife):

If engagement in this thread is a proxy for interest in journal resources, it may illustrate one of the challenges we face.

About 80 people have participated in the discussion over the last two years, spanning 582 posts and 30 pages. About 20 people have posted more than 5 times.

I'm not suggesting there isn't interest beyond this group (I know there is; our Pre-Pub numbers demonstrate that). But I was a little surprised to learn that there's a relatively small group of folks who are really engaged in the journals conversation.

I don't think we should conclude too much from this, but I thought it was an interesting observation worth passing along.

Question and feedback for Phil...

Question: Should we keep the journal prepubs active on our Logos accounts active so you can gauge purchase interest, or should we cancel them until you decide your journal plans moving forward? I have Galaxie and Master 4.1 on pre-pub.

Feedback: You're about to attend one of the largest gatherings of scholars shortly. Why not use this opportunity at this year's ETS/SBL to interact with scholars, students, universities, etc., and ask about their journal interests/needs in Logos? It'd be another avenue you're already attending to get some solid feedback about journals from the people who use them the most in addition to this forum thread, surveys, video chats, etc (all which you can also use). Many journal users likely don't have a ton of time to read/interact on the forums (I'm mainly doing it because I know the value of journals). Being in the middle of a major conference with a flock of scholars would give you a great avenue to get feedback on how to best move forward with journals.

Nathan Parker

Visit my blog at http://focusingonthemarkministries.com 

Posts 298
Jerry Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Oct 27 2018 11:35 AM

Nathan Parker:
Feedback: You're about to attend one of the largest gatherings of scholars shortly. Why not use this opportunity at this year's ETS/SBL to interact with scholars, students, universities, etc., and ask about their journal interests/needs in Logos? It'd be another avenue you're already attending to get some solid feedback about journals from the people who use them the most in addition to this forum thread, surveys, video chats, etc (all which you can also use). Many journal users likely don't have a ton of time to read/interact on the forums (I'm mainly doing it because I know the value of journals). Being in the middle of a major conference with a flock of scholars would give you a great avenue to get feedback on how to best move forward with journals.

This seems like an excellent suggestion . . .

Posts 5737
DAL | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Oct 27 2018 12:03 PM

Jerry Smith:

Nathan Parker:
Feedback: You're about to attend one of the largest gatherings of scholars shortly. Why not use this opportunity at this year's ETS/SBL to interact with scholars, students, universities, etc., and ask about their journal interests/needs in Logos? It'd be another avenue you're already attending to get some solid feedback about journals from the people who use them the most in addition to this forum thread, surveys, video chats, etc (all which you can also use). Many journal users likely don't have a ton of time to read/interact on the forums (I'm mainly doing it because I know the value of journals). Being in the middle of a major conference with a flock of scholars would give you a great avenue to get feedback on how to best move forward with journals.

This seems like an excellent suggestion . . .

Good feedback, but how many would be willing to invest in Logos just to have jourmals? How many of them are already using Logos but are not interested in the journals due to the fact that they are cheaper with the competition or as the chart shows, only a handful are interested in journals?

 WS had, at one point, a nice bundle of the theological journal library for $99 (Publisher is Galaxie) compared to Logos’s over $1K.  Even at WS regular price of $699 is still cheaper and the quality is just as great.  So being realistic, journals are turning out to be not so popular as some might think.

Me, a good few selected journals are fine. Plus, I own a bunch with the competition I even have many I may not even get to read in my life time.

So...sorry to break it to you guys, but the CARTA curse may be rubbing off on the journals too.

DAL

Posts 1867
Nathan Parker | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Oct 27 2018 1:19 PM

DAL:

Jerry Smith:

Nathan Parker:
Feedback: You're about to attend one of the largest gatherings of scholars shortly. Why not use this opportunity at this year's ETS/SBL to interact with scholars, students, universities, etc., and ask about their journal interests/needs in Logos? It'd be another avenue you're already attending to get some solid feedback about journals from the people who use them the most in addition to this forum thread, surveys, video chats, etc (all which you can also use). Many journal users likely don't have a ton of time to read/interact on the forums (I'm mainly doing it because I know the value of journals). Being in the middle of a major conference with a flock of scholars would give you a great avenue to get feedback on how to best move forward with journals.

This seems like an excellent suggestion . . .

Good feedback, but how many would be willing to invest in Logos just to have jourmals? How many of them are already using Logos but are not interested in the journals due to the fact that they are cheaper with the competition or as the chart shows, only a handful are interested in journals?

 WS had, at one point, a nice bundle of the theological journal library for $99 (Publisher is Galaxie) compared to Logos’s over $1K.  Even at WS regular price of $699 is still cheaper and the quality is just as great.  So being realistic, journals are turning out to be not so popular as some might think.

Me, a good few selected journals are fine. Plus, I own a bunch with the competition I even have many I may not even get to read in my life time.

So...sorry to break it to you guys, but the CARTA curse may be rubbing off on the journals too.

DAL

In terms of getting the journals in Logos (even just the Galaxie journals), it's true that I don't have to get them in Logos to easily get access to them. I have a Galaxie subscription, plus my seminary library has access to any other journals I'd need outside of Galaxie.

Coupled with the fact that I use a citation manager for my citations (so Logos-generated bibliographies aren't as crucial anymore) and the fact that I didn't heavily use the additional {Journal Article} tagging and Journals guide access, one may wonder why I would want journals in Logos.

Here's why...

With any other platform I could search journals in (Galaxie database, WORDsearch, Accordance, my seminary library, etc.), no matter how much I enjoy those other platforms, I cannot easily perform one of the searches I mentioned above: combining a Scripture reference with a word in the same search (example: <Bible = Genesis 2:18> NEAR death).

This one-stop search is something I can ONLY do in Logos. Any other platform requires running more than one search, then sorting out the results.

This kind of search I can do with the journals in the Logos engine in any format Logos wishes to deliver them, even going back to having Galaxie producing them and adding no additional tagging that Logos wanted to add.

Another observation...

Themilios journal is one journal still up-to-date in Logos. Each new release, a new journal is ready around the time the journal is released to the web and PDF. Plus Themilios updates are free with the coupon code.

I know Themilios is one volume every so often versus a bulk of journals (like what's in Galaxie), but how come Themilios is continually being up-to-date with releases in Logos around the same time it goes to the web and PDF, and the updates are even free with a coupon code, with Logos essentially making nothing off the releases?

Nathan Parker

Visit my blog at http://focusingonthemarkministries.com 

Posts 9474
Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Oct 27 2018 1:29 PM

DAL:

...  So...sorry to break it to you guys, but the CARTA curse may be rubbing off on the journals too.

DAL

Oh my. I was afraid the curse might spread. Next thing, Old Testament criticism authors might begin demanding their books be reproduced correctly.


Posts 562
Dale E Heath | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 29 2018 4:02 PM

Has anyone attempted to figure out how much of Master 3.1 and/or Master 4.1 are included in any of the L8 Base Packages. It looks like quite a few. Before the L8 announcement, I got this answer from my FL rep.

If I purchased
https://www.logos.com/product/147726/master-journal-bundle-31 at $216.99...

What would my DP be for
https://www.logos.com/product/154052/master-journal-bundle-41 ? It's now
$233.65.

The price I am seeing with my dynamic pricing tool is $70.60. That will be the DP price with the LIVE (i.e., full) pricing and not the pre-order pricing.

I'm guessing the DP at a 40% pre-pub discount would be $42. I'm not sure what the L8 BP inclusions will do to these prices.

Posts 562
Dale E Heath | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 29 2018 8:43 PM

Dale E Heath:

Has anyone attempted to figure out how much of Master 3.1 and/or Master 4.1 are included in any of the L8 Base Packages. It looks like quite a few. Before the L8 announcement, I got this answer from my FL rep.

If I purchased
https://www.logos.com/product/147726/master-journal-bundle-31 at $216.99...

What would my DP be for
https://www.logos.com/product/154052/master-journal-bundle-41 ? It's now
$233.65.

The price I am seeing with my dynamic pricing tool is $70.60. That will be the DP price with the LIVE (i.e., full) pricing and not the pre-order pricing.

I'm guessing the DP at a 40% pre-pub discount would be $42. I'm not sure what the L8 BP inclusions will do to these prices.

The answers are:

https://www.logos.com/product/147726/master-journal-bundle-31 is now $101.69.

https://www.logos.com/product/154052/master-journal-bundle-41 is now $147.00.

I'm still guessing the DP at a 40% pre-pub discount would be around $42.

The point is that if you want 4.1, most of it is available now by buying 3.1 and then waiting.

My DP on Galaxie is $294.89. Not very enticing.

https://www.logos.com/product/156048/galaxies-theological-journal-library-vols-1-20

Posts 233
Charlene | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 30 2018 2:24 AM

Dale E Heath:
Has anyone attempted to figure out how much of Master 3.1 and/or Master 4.1 are included in any of the L8 Base Packages. It looks like quite a few. Before the L8 announcement, I got this answer from my FL rep.
.

I had 3.1 and have ordered 4.1 probably from the beginning when it posted. Yesterday I purchased the L8 Gold upgrade and I got 0 new journals.

Posts 560
Michael S. | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 30 2018 6:20 AM

Yea, other than Christianity Today and a couple of journals that were in 2.1, there are no "new" journals in the v8 packages.

Posts 2563
SineNomine | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 30 2018 5:26 PM

Phil Gons (Faithlife):

If engagement in this thread is a proxy for interest in journal resources, it may illustrate one of the challenges we face.

About 80 people have participated in the discussion over the last two years, spanning 582 posts and 30 pages. About 20 people have posted more than 5 times.

I'd be interested in comparing those stats with similar threads about other product lines, if there are any comparable ones. Come to think of it, this thread probably compares favourably to some of the product line forums.

I would also note that it's not clear (to people glancing through the forums) from the title of this thread what most of these posts have been about.

Posts 634
Into Grace | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 30 2018 5:42 PM

In my opinion, Logos placed theological journals on the back burner to work on Logos 8. Now that it has been released, I hope there is progress. If not, I may subscribe to Galaxie.

Posts 869
John Goodman | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 2 2018 2:23 PM

Dear Phil, I don't think your assessment of people's interest in journals should be based on this thread. Most sensible people have already realised that faithlife is not offering a useful way of engaging with journals, except back issues, at great expense. The additional benefits are not sufficient to warrant the cost for anyone who is part of an institution that provides atlas (i.e. most people that need journals).

My guess is that those of us who are here, are still around because we are enthusiastic Logos users who would prefer to engage with journals in the software.

The thing is that much of the purpose of journals is to be participating in the current debate and accessing the latest thinking and research.

The only model that is going to make sense and cause reasonable buy in is if you mirror the real world model. An ownership subscription, with back issues available in small enough bundles that people can afford them.

Many journals are  quarterly based on the pricing you already charge it works out that about $5-10 a month should cover new issues. If you offer that, and get them to us as they are published, you have a very compelling product! When I bought in to Logos journals at great expense, it was with the promise of regular, even quarterly updates at a reasonable price. Themelios is the only journal I have from this year and that is free! I'm confident you can do better. The market is there, you just need to break into it. Currently it is hard not to feel cheated... I would have done much better subscribing to another provider. Please prove my investment worthy and not a mistake!

גַּם־חֹשֶׁךְ֮ לֹֽא־יַחְשִׁ֪יךְ מִ֫מֶּ֥ךָ וְ֭לַיְלָה כַּיּ֣וֹם יָאִ֑יר כַּ֝חֲשֵׁיכָ֗ה כָּאוֹרָֽה

Posts 639
Kevin A Lewis | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 19 2018 3:47 AM

bump

Posts 298
Jerry Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 19 2018 7:36 AM

Kevin A Lewis:

bump

Yes! BUMP! This needs a "fixin'" and it continues to drag!

Posts 1921
Forum MVP
Randy W. Sims | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 19 2018 7:42 AM

See Phil Gons' post from a few pages back: https://community.logos.com/forums/p/136193/1001741.aspx#1001741

Phil Gons (Faithlife):

What I'd like to ask is that you give us at least few weeks to engage more fully in this conversation. We're in an exceptionally busy season right now, and several of us will be out of the office soon for ETS/SBL and then be out for Thanksgiving. So the soonest we could give this issue any serious consideration would be the final week of November.

.

I'm open to hosting a video chat with those who wish you participate in late November or early December. Can we agree on that as a good next step?

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Posts 88
Josiah | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 19 2018 8:37 AM

I have 4.1 master on pre-pub but haven't posted in this thread yet.  I think having current academic journals in Logos is absolutely critical to its viability as a serious research tool, especially for anyone who doesn't have access to them via their work.

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