March Madness & Women Writers

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Posts 676
Dale E Heath | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Mar 3 2017 7:09 PM

Please don't take this seriously or be offended, I'm only joking.

Perhaps we need to have brackets for each color (4), gender (2), denomination (2), living or dead (2), and east of the Atlantic Ocean or west (2). That's 64. Then we could have other denominations do battle in the 24 hr bouts. I like the idea of double elimination. Losers could go into 24 hr bouts or a 32 slot loser's bracket. Just kidding.

I like what they've done so far.

Dale Heath

Posts 10177
Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Mar 3 2017 8:34 PM

Dale, please don't take this seriously or be offended ( this gets me off the hook). But let's not trivialize the spiritual needs of white guys from Europe and its former colonies. A basketball game is a chance to attract them.


Posts 5249
Dan Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Mar 4 2017 9:48 AM

June Hunt appears to be the lone woman in MM 2017.... Don't think we need or should expect equal numbers but this is a sad turn out and feels more like a token bone thrown out there...

-dan

Posts 3048
SineNomine | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Mar 4 2017 11:22 AM

I will point out two facts:

1. Logos March Madness is intended to sell Logos edition books.

2. June Hunt is presently getting creamed in the first round voting.

Quite apart from concerns about the undeniable dominance of men in this year's Logos March Madness, I have a serious question:

What women authors could reasonably be expected to do significantly better in sales ($$$) than June Hunt if they were in March Madness this year?

I personally can't think of any Catholic women who have the realistic sales potential of or greater than the Catholic men presently in March Madness, all but one of whom are losing in the first round right now.

Posts 1016
EastTN | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Mar 4 2017 11:53 AM

SineNomine:

I will point out two facts:

1. Logos March Madness is intended to sell Logos edition books.

2. June Hunt is presently getting creamed in the first round voting.

Quite apart from concerns about the undeniable dominance of men in this year's Logos March Madness, I have a serious question:

What women authors could reasonably be expected to do significantly better in sales ($$$) than June Hunt if they were in March Madness this year?

I personally can't think of any Catholic women who have the realistic sales potential of or greater than the Catholic men presently in March Madness, all but one of whom are losing in the first round right now.

I think this is a critical insight.

The point of the promotion is to move books. I suspect we would better understand why the slate is what it is if we knew the method that FaithLife uses to pick authors for their March Madness. My guess is that, whatever the details, two prime considerations have to be 1) what's the likely level of sales for each author, and 2) how much room do they have to offer substantial discounts on the authors' books?

Posts 5249
Dan Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Mar 4 2017 12:26 PM

Underhill very well might, EG White is another who might again, as to a living author I am not sure... Joyce G. Baldwin unfortunately only has 5 commentaries available in Logos, Elizabeth Achtemeier again has only a few books in Logos. I realize you need the works in Logos for this to succeed but it is a sad state of things that we don't have any women capable of being in MM beyond one. Many of the ministers I know are women, only one of them uses Logos, I wonder if that is partly due to the lack of females represented in the Logos library. I see 20% of pastors in the USA appear to be female, I think numbers within Canada are a higher percentage....

-dan

Posts 3218
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PetahChristian | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Mar 4 2017 12:46 PM

I believe FL said that the brackets were already created, and that some women will appear in the face-offs this year.

MM has just started. It's too early to say that this sale didn't offer any significant discounts for woman writers.

Posts 5249
Dan Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Mar 4 2017 1:30 PM

I guess I am not familiar with the exact concept. i thought the round robin format just took away authors not added more in latter... I have not been a big sports fan so I have little idea how it works sorry for my ignorance.

-Dan

Posts 3218
Forum MVP
PetahChristian | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Mar 4 2017 1:57 PM

This is separate from (in addition to) the brackets. It's a 24-hour competition, and whoever wins that one-on-one Face-Off gets put on sale at the current bracket's discount.

Here's what the site says about it:

"Can’t find your favorite author in this year’s matchups? They may be featured in one of our new 24-Hour Face-Offs. Throughout Logos March Madness, we’re featuring select authors not included in the main competition in one-on-one, 24-hour knock-down drag-outs. At the end of each matchup, the winner’s works will go on sale! These sudden face-offs aren’t scheduled, and can happen at any time, check back often, or sign up below to be notified when they occur."

Posts 5249
Dan Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Mar 4 2017 2:06 PM

Thanks PetahChristian some how I missed that.

-dan 

Posts 6402
DAL | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Mar 5 2017 6:54 PM

I'm sorry, but women authors IS NOT/WILL NOT be a good suggestion.  June Hunt got smoked as I'm sure others will. The scholarship they offer, though good, will never surpass the scholarship of men. It's actually sad to see women authors get crushed like that. I love Hunt's works they are very practical and have helped me a lot. Karen is great on her three masterful commentaries I have of her (NIVAC, BECNT and ZECNT), but they would never make it past the first round since their works are limited in the Logos catalog. 

So, to save them the embarrassment of getting smoked and not making it past the first round, just put their works on sale during International Women's Day this coming Wednesday, March 8th. (Say 40% off) or do a mini Women's March Madness on that day and the winner's works go on sale for 75% off.

Think about it, why wait til next year just to see them go down in the first round. Is not like having an all Women's March Madness is going to help make the competition more appealing or generate more sales.

I don't mean to sound negative, but come on, let's be realistic. Pitting women vs women would be the fair thing to do and this coming Wednesday would be the chance to do it and make at least some sales in the process.

DAL

Posts 10177
Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Mar 5 2017 7:41 PM

DAL, I'd agree with the points above concerning sales generation. Dan (Faithlife) noted years back in the annals of Logosian history, the curious absence of the fair ones.

But your comment about gender scholarship is drivel. I'm not referring to all those ladies you missed ... rather, the abysmal state of Biblical scholarship ... primarily represented by those playing in the basketball game.  I recommend you indeed buy the volume you're waiting for.


Posts 6402
DAL | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Mar 5 2017 8:18 PM
Not arguing Denise, but more than drivel, I'd say my statement is realistic and has nothing to do with genders is just the way things are. No need to get defensive. Sorry if I offended you by stating something that has been true throughout the annals of the entire human history. DAL
Posts 10177
Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Mar 5 2017 8:37 PM

No need to apologize or be sorry, DAL.

The Logos prepub that failed on the Pseudo-Clementines illustrates the point well. It's available on Kindle. The argument between Peter and Simon Magus far exceeds today's batch of scholars that you're enthralled with.


Posts 520
Gordon Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Mar 6 2017 12:12 AM

DAL:

women authors... The scholarship they offer, though good, will never surpass the scholarship of men.

Hi DAL, following your comment above you go on to describe examples of scholarship by women as practical, helpful and masterful. Your argument seems incongruous to me. Would you please elaborate on your above comment, per se, and its relation to March Madness or indeed other Logos promotions? G&P

Posts 6402
DAL | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Mar 6 2017 4:53 AM

Gordon Jones:

DAL:

women authors... The scholarship they offer, though good, will never surpass the scholarship of men.

Hi DAL, following your comment above you go on to describe examples of scholarship by women as practical, helpful and masterful. Your argument seems incongruous to me. Would you please elaborate on your above comment, per se, and its relation to March Madness or indeed other Logos promotions? G&P

The point is that no matter how good Women's scholarship is, when it comes to MM is not going to fly; especially when you pit them against men. Heck,  I don't like all men's scholarship either, but even some relatively unknown guy would always move ahead in the competition. So it doesn't seem fair to pit women vs men. Women should have their own little MM at least for one day (International Women's Day) and pit women vs women to make it more even. That's all, nothing against my lovely women 😁

DAL

Posts 3218
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PetahChristian | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Mar 6 2017 8:34 AM

DAL:
even some relatively unknown guy would always move ahead in the competition

Is it constructive or edifying to affirm that a man will always win against a woman in the competition, or that a woman needs to compete with a woman to have a chance at winning?

In general, if men (a majority of the voting demographic) would tend to vote for relatively unknown male authors and win, how is that any different from faith X/denomination Y (a minority of the voting demographic) tending to vote for authors of their faith/denomination and lose?

Do contemporary authors have less chance against bygone authors? Do catholic authors have less chance against protestant authors? Is it also necessary to pair up authors by century or by denomination?

I think any pairing is going to be skewed in some particular way, due to demographics (partiality), and inherent bias (prejudice). I don't believe that the ideal solution would be to change how people are paired off, because this is not limited to March Madness.

Perhaps we should ask God to reveal anything in ourselves, our upbringing, our culture, and/or our society, which hinders the truth that "there is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus."

Posts 6402
DAL | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Mar 6 2017 12:23 PM

PetahChristian:

DAL:
even some relatively unknown guy would always move ahead in the competition

Is it constructive or edifying to affirm that a man will always win against a woman in the competition, or that a woman needs to compete with a woman to have a chance at winning?

Yes and very much realistic. It's just the way things are and we just need to accept them. It has nothing to do with who's better, it's more like a creation pattern. Nobody is putting down any body.

In general, if men (a majority of the voting demographic) would tend to vote for relatively unknown male authors and win, how is that any different from faith X/denomination Y (a minority of the voting demographic) tending to vote for authors of their faith/denomination and lose? 

But they don't! People are still voting for Spurgeon which makes me wonder if they really put any thought to their voting.

Do contemporary authors have less chance against bygone authors? Do catholic authors have less chance against protestant authors? Is it also necessary to pair up authors by century or by denomination?

Sometimes, but Packer has the lead over Keener which again makes me wonder why people complain that none of the modern ones are winning when they keep voting for the bygone authors!

I think any pairing is going to be skewed in some particular way, due to demographics (partiality), and inherent bias (prejudice). I don't believe that the ideal solution would be to change how people are paired off, because this is not limited to March Madness.

My solution is better. Pair women against women and you'll start seeing sales for them. Is a proven fact.

Perhaps we should ask God to reveal anything in ourselves, our upbringing, our culture, and/or our society, which hinders the truth that "there is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus."

When it comes to salvation yes there's no such difference, but when it comes to roles and order of creation that doesn't apply.

Posts 268
Roger Dittmar | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Mar 7 2017 5:54 AM

        Ben Amundgaard (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2017 1:45 PM

As promised, here is a list of pre-pub titles that will be cancelled in 30 days unless they get enough pre-orders to make it into production. If you really want one of these titles/collections, now's your chance to show your support!

https://www.logos.com/product/50195/the-renaissance-bible-scholarship-sacrifice-and-subjectivity

https://www.logos.com/product/50193/a-brutal-unity-the-spiritual-politics-of-the-christian-church

https://www.logos.com/product/50350/baylor-baptist-history-collection

https://www.logos.com/product/50190/baylor-women-in-theology-collection

https://www.logos.com/product/50191/the-bible-and-missions

https://www.logos.com/product/50162/the-way-of-life-john-paul-ii-and-the-challenge-of-liberal-modernity

https://www.logos.com/product/25244/baylor-new-testament-studies-collection

https://www.logos.com/product/55969/bodies-of-peace-ecclesiology-nonviolence-and-witness

https://www.logos.com/product/55693/the-anointed-church-toward-a-third-article-ecclesiology

https://www.logos.com/product/55649/the-fear-of-islam-an-introduction-to-islamophobia-in-the-west

https://www.logos.com/product/55803/the-limits-of-forgiveness-case-studies-in-the-distortion-of-a-biblical-ideal

https://www.logos.com/product/55802/engaging-the-passion-perspectives-on-the-death-of-jesus

https://www.logos.com/product/55650/a-council-for-the-global-church-receiving-vatican-ii-in-history

https://www.logos.com/product/41401/jewish-christian-interpretation-of-the-pentateuch-in-the-pseudo-clementine-homilies

https://www.logos.com/product/41490/the-courage-of-faith-martin-luther-and-the-theonomous-self

https://www.logos.com/product/40843/fortress-press-contemporary-theology-collection

https://www.logos.com/product/42406/what-is-social-scientific-criticism

https://www.logos.com/product/42765/introduction-to-the-history-of-christianity-2nd-ed

https://www.logos.com/product/49005/reviving-the-congregation-pastoral-leadership-in-a-changing-context

https://www.logos.com/product/45717/be-still-and-know-gods-presence-in-silence

https://www.logos.com/product/45686/saving-karl-barth-hans-urs-von-balthasars-preoccupation

https://www.logos.com/product/45691/uncovering-spiritual-narratives-using-story-in-pastoral-care-and-ministry

https://www.logos.com/product/45551/fortress-biblical-preaching-commentaries-collection

https://www.logos.com/product/48792/fortress-press-new-testament-studies-collection

https://www.logos.com/product/49009/saving-beauty-a-theological-aesthetics-of-nature

https://www.logos.com/product/49412/a-short-introduction-to-the-hebrew-bible-second-edition

https://www.logos.com/product/52288/the-histories-of-the-latin-american-church

https://www.logos.com/product/52512/john-fortress-biblical-preaching-commentaries

https://www.logos.com/product/52531/the-divine-in-acts-and-in-ancient-historiography

https://www.logos.com/product/52798/dominus-mortis-martin-luther-on-the-incorruptibility-of-god-in-christ

https://www.logos.com/product/52802/christopraxis-a-practical-theology-of-the-cross

https://www.logos.com/product/52352/fortress-studies-on-passages-in-the-gospels

https://www.logos.com/product/51751/fortress-studies-on-augustine

https://www.logos.com/product/54049/between-apocalypse-and-eschaton-history-and-eternity-in-henri-de-lubac

https://www.logos.com/product/54173/a-question-of-consensus-the-doctrine-of-assurance-after-the-westminster-confession

https://www.logos.com/product/54197/fortress-early-christian-studies

https://www.logos.com/product/54193/portrait-of-the-kings-the-davidic-prototype-in-deuteronomistic-poetics

https://www.logos.com/product/55293/christian-thought-in-america-a-brief-history

https://www.logos.com/product/55533/triune-eternality-gods-relationship-to-time-in-the-theology-of-karl-barth

The works by 20 women authors are contained in the above list of pre-pubs to be cancelled on March 20th.

Posts 6402
DAL | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Mar 7 2017 6:51 AM

Roger Dittmar:

The works by 20 women authors are contained in the above list of pre-pubs to be cancelled on March 20th.

I rest my case! Point proven without a shadow of a doubt! My condolences to the suggestion! (which by the way was made the year before last year and that's why some women (June Hunt) participated in MM2016, but I guess the suggestion wasn't so good that this year it still went as bad as last year, and so it had to be suggested again).  Is not discrimination is just the way things have been established from the beginning. So, if FL wants to generate some MM with women authors, then pit them against each other on a separate mini WMM 2017 whether some like it or not.

DAL

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