Song Library Browser and Service Planner Concept

Page 1 of 1 (12 items)
This post has 11 Replies | 2 Followers

Posts 172
Philip Bassham | Forum Activity | Posted: Tue, Feb 21 2017 10:44 PM

It would be helpful to be able to browse and organize our library of songs. There is the ability to reuse items from past presentations, but that is not really ideal as a place to keep anything organized.

For instance,  we imported lots of songs into our 'my songs' library that we want to pick through and use, but there is no way to find them now without typing the name first. If there was a song browser, that would really help, but currently we have to use another place to manage songs.

Song Browser

Similar to the media browser, it could have a view to show only my songs, or the whole library, similar to how there is an option to show ALL or OWNED media.  And then tags to sort by author, type of song, if it has been used before, etc. And then in the main list, options to Sort by last sung, # of times sung, etc.

Service Planner

An added bonus would be a panel on the right that would show a list of upcoming presentations filtered to show just the songs in them, and allow songs to be dragged from the master list straight into future presentations. All planning done quickly and easily.

I even threw together a concept image to illustrate what I mean. Song info could be added above the Service Planner if need be.

Posts 3502
LogosEmployee
Scott Alexander | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Feb 22 2017 8:54 AM

Thanks for the detailed feedback Philip! We plan to improve song management in a future release. This feedback is really great! 

Posts 5
Sorin Pantis | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Feb 10 2020 10:29 AM

Any further plans on adding a song library easier to manage?

Posts 5
Sorin Pantis | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Mar 19 2021 5:31 PM

Any update on this feature? This is really missing and a big problem. Each week we're debating if we continue using Proclaim or switch to ProPresenter. :(

Posts 746
LogosEmployee
Jordan Sjodin | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Mar 19 2021 8:56 PM

Sorry for the radio silence since your last post! 

We have made lots of strides here with our integration with Faithlife Music. This integration requires us to migrate your group, which we are doing in phases. 

Looks like your group is migrated, but the worship team looks to have been created and deleted today... Do you know what happened there? That might be causing some issues, so I'd be glad to help you get that sorted.

The worship team will house all your custom songs and arrangements. music.faithlife.com lets you see your entire library and customize the lyrics, verse order, attach media, etc. 

While within Proclaim, you search for a song like normal, and then have access to all your arrangements on that specific song.

Sorin Pantis:
This is really missing and a big problem

I think these new features should help, but regardless what about how Proclaim does it causes a problem?

From my perspective, you would add a song item, search for the name of the song, select it from My Songs and you are good to go? What is it that you are missing? Knowing whats missing will be helpful as we continue to roll out these updates!

Thanks! And sorry again that it took a year to reply to your Embarrassed

Mac | iOS | Android | Windows | Web Developer 

Posts 5232
Forum MVP
Mike Binks | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Mar 20 2021 1:39 AM

Jordan Sjodin:
While within Proclaim, you search for a song like normal, and then have access to all your arrangements on that specific song.

It would help me if I could see if a song that I want to reuse already has a backing track associated with it.

It would help me even more if I could differentiate between backing tracks.

tootle pip

Mike

How to get logs and post them. (now tagging post-apocalyptic fiction as current affairs)

Posts 5
Sorin Pantis | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Mar 22 2021 1:59 PM

Hi Jordan, thanks for your reply! I just created the worship group for a quick test and then deleted it. Do we need to have that created?

Also, I had a look at music.faithlife.com, and while I do understand the use case for that, this is very complex to work with. What we need is a simple list of the songs, but inside Proclaim. The same way you have the pop-up of items when you select "Reuse item", but with a simpler view of just the songs, and maybe even some stats (how many songs in the library, date of last use and so on). 

The "Reuse item" is almost perfect, with just some tweaks to it. Music.faithlife.com is a whole different thing to us, much more clunky. Simply put, we need an "Add item" pop-up, where we can manually create collections, and then add items to them manually. I feel this is an essential feature and I don't quite understand the resistance Proclaim has against that feature.

Let me organize my own items, as it fits our workflows. As others, we keep a list of songs in a different location, Google spreadsheets, because of this.

I really hope you can implement this, as it is quite a basic feature.

Posts 5046
SineNomine | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Mar 22 2021 2:20 PM

Sorin Pantis:
Simply put, we need an "Add item" pop-up, where we can manually create collections, and then add items to them manually. I feel this is an essential feature and I don't quite understand the resistance Proclaim has against that feature.

Effectively, you're asking for a Proclaim equivalent of the Logos/Verbum feature "Collections", the difference being that collections in Proclaim would hold songs rather than resources. This seems quite reasonable to me.

Posts 5
Sorin Pantis | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Mar 22 2021 3:23 PM

Yes, similar to what the "Reuse item" does, but with extras:

- Manage collections and add to collections (adding a song to multiple collections)

- Delete a song

- See quick song stats (last use timestamp, number of uses, number of arrangements, Key, Tempo, whatever)

Posts 746
LogosEmployee
Jordan Sjodin | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Mar 22 2021 3:36 PM

You're welcome! You should have already had a worship team... I did a little more investigation and found it with no one in it! So that definitely would make your experience on music.faithlife.com confusing. The new one you made and then deleted is fine to leave deleted, but you do need at least one.

I just added you to the correct Worship team as an admin. This is a key part of Proclaim now and actually where all your songs and arrangements are stored. If you were to delete this one, you would lose all your songs!

If you'd like I can add the rest of your presentation team members to the worship team as well so they can all access the songs at music.faithlife.com?

Sorin Pantis:
with a simpler view of just the songs, and maybe even some stats (how many songs in the library, date of last use and so on). 

This does sound cool!

Sorin Pantis:
need an "Add item" pop-up, where we can manually create collections, and then add items to them manually. I feel this is an essential feature and I don't quite understand the resistance Proclaim has against that feature.

From my perspective, this sounds like you are wanting to organize the songs to then use Proclaim to decide what you are going to sing? Like the planning piece of it. 

However, in in general, Proclaim is for presenting, not planning. So given you already know which songs to sing, the simplest UI in Proclaim is a single search box to add the song, which is what we have today. We try not to add more UI then we need, so I think that is why we don't have a list of songs like that today.

Am I understanding the request correctly? You want to be able to browse, organize, and view your songs for purposes of building out worship sets/deciding what to sing in service?

Faithlife Music is where we hope to support worship planning, music discovery, set-list building, etc. Now that I found your worship team, your experience on Faithlife Music should be a lot better. With one click, you can get a list of all the songs you have used in Proclaim, plus sort by last edited. We hope to expose additional data such as when you last used it in a service. We have this data exposed in the aggregate form today, but not specific to your group.

Thanks for your feedback Sorin! I can see how having a view like this in Proclaim would be helpful. Especially the extra info like number of uses, last used, etc. We will take it into consideration.

Also, take a look a Faithlife Music again and let me know what pieces are confusing. Like I said, I think some of that confusion was no one was actually being in the worship team before. But definitely want to improve!

Mac | iOS | Android | Windows | Web Developer 

Posts 5
Sorin Pantis | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Mar 23 2021 3:35 PM

There's a few problems with the approach of music.faithlife.com. I'll try to explain.

1. The best feature of Proclaim versus ProPresenter is being able to collaborate from multiple computers. This means that we have a laptop at the church that is hooked to the projection system, but we prepare everything from home during the week. This is great, but we're also a small church, so we're relying on volunteers to run the lyrics during service, and explaining how to prepare the songs in Proclaim (after they have the list of the songs they need to add), is confusing every time, everyone expects to see a list of the songs that they don't find. And then they go ahead and create duplicates of songs when they search for the song, they don't use the suggested song and don't complete the entire title, which simply creates a duplicate. We've got loads of duplicates!

2. It's also very confusing why if I edit a song, it will create a new instance of that song. Having a list of songs would also help with this.

3. We actually use Proclaim to plan the services, this is why we love the feature of working from home and then just syncing it to the laptop in church. We're a small church, so we're not using Planning Center or other things like that. Actually, having the list of songs in front of your eyes is mainly for planning and inspiration.

4. Music faithlife is simply put another application, it's not proclaim. So this is not a solution within Proclaim, it's another app that integrates with Proclaim. It's very confusing.

5. We are not English language based, so while the English songs might be useful for a lot of people, for us there's a lot of songs that we are not using in music.faithlife. Those english songs that we're not using, is just confusing for our volunteers team. We want to only see the collection of our own songs.

6. In our own Worship Team in music.faithlife.com we just see a list of the songs we've created. With all the duplicates in there, and we can't bulk edit anything, it's really not usable.

To us, this lack of such a simple feature it's hard to understand. Imagine MacOS saying you don't need to see your files listed, you can just search for it in Spotlight. Wanting to see a collection of your items shouldn't have the be explained. We feel like Proclaim tries to reinvent the wheel here, but makes it square in the process. So while you try to make things simpler, you make them way more complicated.

There's other issues when you want to use other languages with Proclaim, like special characters that are not supported on the confidence monitor for some reason. 

So bottom line is that I understand that maybe we're not the target client for Proclaim, and that's alright. Otherwise, it's hard for me to believe that the majority of people using Proclaim love the fact that this feature is missing and they find this easier to use because of that.

Posts 746
LogosEmployee
Jordan Sjodin | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Mar 23 2021 4:07 PM

Thank-you very much for the detailed response!

I really appreciate you taking the time, and will continue to look into ways to make this easier within Proclaim. From my first pass over your comments, it sounds like you may be dealing with a few bugs. I'll take a closer look at your song DB and see if I can see what is happening with regard to all the duplicates.

Sorin Pantis:
And then they go ahead and create duplicates of songs when they search for the song, they don't use the suggested song and don't complete the entire title, which simply creates a duplicate. We've got loads of duplicates!

Right this does not sound good, or sustainable. I feel like something may actually be broken here. It should be quite hard to make a duplicate.

Sorin Pantis:
2. It's also very confusing why if I edit a song, it will create a new instance of that song. Having a list of songs would also help with this.

This sounds like a bug as well. You 100% should be able to edit an arrangement within Proclaim without it making duplicates.

Sorin Pantis:
3. We actually use Proclaim to plan the services, this is why we love the feature of working from home and then just syncing it to the laptop in church. We're a small church, so we're not using Planning Center or other things like that. Actually, having the list of songs in front of your eyes is mainly for planning and inspiration

Gotcha, this does make sense to me.

Sorin Pantis:
There's other issues when you want to use other languages with Proclaim, like special characters that are not supported on the confidence monitor for some reason. 

This too sounds like a bug. I believe it might just be the default font doesn't have the right characters, and its not falling back correctly. You can can change the font used on the confidence monitor by editing the template. And then set it as default for all item types. Then going forward you should not have these issues. You can also upload a custom font and use that on the confidence monitor too.

Mac | iOS | Android | Windows | Web Developer 

Page 1 of 1 (12 items) | RSS