Moo on Romans -- Mobile Ed vs. NICNT (Worth having both?)

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Posts 1388
Rick Ausdahl | Forum Activity | Posted: Fri, Mar 31 2017 4:14 PM

I have Moo's New International Commentary on Romans and am considering his NT331 Mobile Ed course on Romans.  I'm wondering if anyone is familiar with both, and if so, if you would:

  1. Share your thoughts regarding how much repetition/overlap there is between them.
  2. If you think there's much benefit in having both.
Posts 6315
DAL | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Mar 31 2017 5:35 PM

I have Encountering the Book of Romans, NIVAC on Romans and his NICNT on Romans. My assumption is that the course is just an in depth presentation of Romans in 10 hours, choosing only key subjects. I'd like to own it, but I'm good. Besides, I have 'til the 14th to decide. Maybe others have experienced both and can comment. Keep in mind, it doesn't matter if they overlap a bit, a video presentation is a total different experience, especially if you're a visual learneršŸ‘

DAL

Posts 1388
Rick Ausdahl | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Mar 31 2017 5:52 PM

DAL:

I have Encountering the Book of Romans, NIVAC on Romans and his NICNT on Romans. My assumption is that the course is just an in depth presentation of Romans in 10 hours, choosing only key subjects. I'd like to own it, but I'm good. Besides, I have 'til the 14th to decide. Maybe others have experienced both and can comment. Keep in mind, it doesn't matter if they overlap a bit, a video presentation is a total different experience, especially if you're a visual learneršŸ‘

DAL

Thanks, Dal!  I didn't mention it, but I also have Moo's NIVAC on Romans.  Smile

Regarding "visual learning", I don't at all feel I need the lecture format of study but I do enjoy it.  But as I've mentioned in a few other threads, I've been trying to build a library that I hope to pass along not too many years down the road and I've been trying to gather a variety of resource levels, types, and formats in the hope that regardless of who has it next, that person will find a decent number of resources that fit his/her learning style.  Even so, with Mobile Ed being the most expensive type of resource (from my perspective), I need to be pretty selective in what I include, even when it's 70% off.  Big Smile

Posts 943
Everett Headley | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Mar 31 2017 6:27 PM

I don't have the mobileEd but I have seen another very similiar length video series from Moo in which he used his NICNT.  There were some good discussions that were not in the book, but I don' think you would miss very much if you didn't get the lectures.   

Do buy all that he was written on Romans. 

Posts 1388
Rick Ausdahl | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Apr 2 2017 1:04 PM

Everett Headley:

I don't have the mobileEd but I have seen another very similiar length video series from Moo in which he used his NICNT.  There were some good discussions that were not in the book, but I don' think you would miss very much if you didn't get the lectures.   

Do buy all that he was written on Romans. 

Thanks, Everett!

Well so far, that's two for two, who while not having both media types, seem to expect considerable overlap in material and therefore probably not much benefit (at least content wise) in adding the Mobile Ed course to the commentary resources I currently own.  With that being the concern which prompted this thread, I'll most likely pass on the ME course unless someone with both resource types shares a reason(s) for it being worth adding.

Posts 1966
Joseph Turner | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Apr 2 2017 1:38 PM

I also own all of Moo's books, but I also decided to get his courses.  The thing I like about the courses is that they not only have the author presenting the information (this helps me because I am more engaged by audio/video), but there are also the extra helps from Logos on how to use certain features related to what I have just learned in the course.  It's almost like a Logos training course with the addition of a course taught by a scholar!  I try to get them whenever there is a good deal.

Disclaimer:  I hate using messaging, texting, and email for real communication.  If anything that I type to you seems like anything other than humble and respectful, then I have not done a good job typing my thoughts.

Posts 1388
Rick Ausdahl | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Apr 2 2017 4:37 PM

Joseph Turner:

I also own all of Moo's books, but I also decided to get his courses.  The thing I like about the courses is that they not only have the author presenting the information (this helps me because I am more engaged by audio/video), but there are also the extra helps from Logos on how to use certain features related to what I have just learned in the course.  It's almost like a Logos training course with the addition of a course taught by a scholar!  I try to get them whenever there is a good deal.

Thank you, Joseph.  The "good deal" on this course is definitely what got me thinking about it.  Of course, it doesn't hurt that I really appreciate and enjoy Moo's presentation--but I do try to be a good steward and use my Logos dollars as wisely as possible.

Have you had the opportunity to compare the course content with any of the commentaries?  I realize I can purchase the course and return it after the 30 day grace period (which I greatly appreciate), but I've only returned a very small percentage of my total purchases and I really hope to keep it that way, hence my interest prior to purchasing.

Posts 881
Justin Gatlin | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Apr 2 2017 6:20 PM

It is pretty similar to Moo's free course over at BiblicalTraining. You can see if having that content in Logos is worth it to you. I enjoyed it, but think it is fairly priced rather than a steal at 70% off.

Posts 1388
Rick Ausdahl | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Apr 2 2017 6:52 PM

Justin Gatlin:

It is pretty similar to Moo's free course over at BiblicalTraining. You can see if having that content in Logos is worth it to you. I enjoyed it, but think it is fairly priced rather than a steal at 70% off.

Thanks, Justin!  I didn't realize he had a course there--I'll take a look.

Posts 638
Michael S. | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Apr 5 2017 4:31 AM

Yes, the audio lectures on Biblical Training are good.  Like the other commenters said, unless you are a visual learner, the free audio or the books are "good enough".  I too find the Mobile Ed courses to be expensive.  I like that they tie in the LOGOS system and show how to specifically use the system for that study, but still think they are over priced.  You have to be rich to do all there is.  Books are cheaper.

Posts 3173
Whyndell Gizzard | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Apr 5 2017 6:06 AM

I have close to 200 comm's on Romans- not including 50 or so monographs, I also have Moo's mobile ed which I have only watched twice since getting- so i would say with Greek study, reading comm's, using BT resources, not to mention years of audio resources on the internet from a plethora teachers, preachers not much could be added. 

Mobile Ed resources are not necessary do to cost and the hidden cost within each- unless you have every book FL publishes you will spend on average $100 to $300 to be able to utilize it 100%.

Posts 2824
Michael Childs | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Apr 5 2017 6:42 AM

Just what is the advantage of having the Mobile Ed videos within the Logos program?  How is it tied in to Logos?  If the lecturer references a work by another author in your library, is there a link to take you to the reference? 

To me the nature of video and audio presentations demands one's full attention.  So your video presentation might as well be out of your Logos library as in it.  Maybe when I retire I will have time for 10 hour videos.

Isn't it much easier to find the writer's understanding of a specific issue or question in a book, which is searchable, than in a video?  How can a 10 hour presentation have the depth of a scholarly critical commentary? 

But perhaps I just do not understand the advantages of having it in Logos.  I think I had rather watch the movie after I have read the book.

"In all cases, the Church is to be judged by the Scripture, not the Scripture by the Church," John Wesley

Posts 666
James McAdams | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Apr 5 2017 7:28 AM

Michael Childs:

Just what is the advantage of having the Mobile Ed videos within the Logos program?  How is it tied in to Logos?  If the lecturer references a work by another author in your library, is there a link to take you to the reference? 

To me the nature of video and audio presentations demands one's full attention.  So your video presentation might as well be out of your Logos library as in it.  Maybe when I retire I will have time for 10 hour videos.

Isn't it much easier to find the writer's understanding of a specific issue or question in a book, which is searchable, than in a video?  How can a 10 hour presentation have the depth of a scholarly critical commentary? 

But perhaps I just do not understand the advantages of having it in Logos.  I think I had rather watch the movie after I have read the book.

You get transcriptions of the videos that you can read or search for anything you've seen/heard, plus there are further reading recommendations and tests that you can choose to take to make sure you're you're taking everything in.

Posts 6315
DAL | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Apr 5 2017 7:51 AM

Justin Gatlin:

It is pretty similar to Moo's free course over at BiblicalTraining. You can see if having that content in Logos is worth it to you. I enjoyed it, but think it is fairly priced rather than a steal at 70% off.

I started his lectures and they'll do just fine. I could use the money to buy MacArthur's Commentaries (some volumes) but I still have faith that Moody will allow Logos to have a good sale on the whole set one of these says. 30% off is not a good deal for me.

DAL

Posts 1388
Rick Ausdahl | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Apr 5 2017 9:58 AM

First, I want to thank everyone again for the thoughts and comments provided.  In the past, most of the Mobile Ed courses I've purchased have been on things other than specific books of the Bible, focusing more on a specific topic or things like cultural/historical/literary backgrounds and archaeology.  I couldn't begin to justify the cost of book specific mobile ed courses.  But with the advent of some book specific courses being offered via community pricing I put bids on a few and now with Moo's Romans course at 70% off (not likely to ever be any less), I thought I'd take a look at it as well.

Regarding Mobile Ed courses vs other options such a Biblical Training, I think there are pros and cons with each.  I think the Mobile Ed courses are more condensed and there is very little wasted time.  I like that.  Another advantage is the way topic points are placed on the screen along side the instructor.  I also like the fact that I can download the material for offline use if I so choose.  Unlike some though, I don't like having segments on the use of Logos incorporated into the course.  The Logos software keeps changing and too often (in my opinion) there are discrepancies between how Logos is shown to work in the course and how it actually works in my version.  I prefer to get my Logos training other ways.

On the flip side, one obvious advantage with sites like Biblical training is they are offered for free with a requested donation.  A person can make a pretty decent size donation and still save a considerable chunk of change over Mobile Ed.  But in regard to the courses that have a video option, I find the quality all over the board in terms of the camera staying with the instructor as he/she moves about the room and/or uses the white boards.  Another negative is that it's often very hard to understand questions and comments made by the students and the instructor rarely repeats it for the camera, so it can be a lot like listening to one side of a phone conversation.

There are other pros and cons with each, but I think that's enough to show they each have their advantages and disadvantages.

Posts 881
Justin Gatlin | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Apr 5 2017 10:56 AM

James McAdams:

Michael Childs:

Just what is the advantage of having the Mobile Ed videos within the Logos program?  How is it tied in to Logos?  If the lecturer references a work by another author in your library, is there a link to take you to the reference? 

To me the nature of video and audio presentations demands one's full attention.  So your video presentation might as well be out of your Logos library as in it.  Maybe when I retire I will have time for 10 hour videos.

Isn't it much easier to find the writer's understanding of a specific issue or question in a book, which is searchable, than in a video?  How can a 10 hour presentation have the depth of a scholarly critical commentary? 

But perhaps I just do not understand the advantages of having it in Logos.  I think I had rather watch the movie after I have read the book.

You get transcriptions of the videos that you can read or search for anything you've seen/heard, plus there are further reading recommendations and tests that you can choose to take to make sure you're you're taking everything in.

In the specific question at hand, the value of having searchable transcripts when you already have the searchable NICNT is minimized.

Posts 2824
Michael Childs | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Apr 5 2017 12:30 PM

James McAdams:

You get transcriptions of the videos that you can read or search for anything you've seen/heard, plus there are further reading recommendations and tests that you can choose to take to make sure you're you're taking everything in.

Thanks, James.  That is very helpful.

"In all cases, the Church is to be judged by the Scripture, not the Scripture by the Church," John Wesley

Posts 3190
Forum MVP
PetahChristian | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Apr 5 2017 6:14 PM

Justin Gatlin:

James McAdams:

You get transcriptions of the videos that you can read or search for anything you've seen/heard, plus there are further reading recommendations and tests that you can choose to take to make sure you're you're taking everything in.

In the specific question at hand, the value of having searchable transcripts when you already have the searchable NICNT is minimized.

I find that the transcripts serve as the cornerstone for my notes on each segment. I can attach notes from other resources, to provide an easy way to find important points about that segment in one place, regardless of which resource they were in.

I find that it spares me from having to search for something in the first place.

Posts 201
David J. Wilson | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Apr 5 2017 6:15 PM

Might also be useful to know that it is not a 10 hour video, but 10 hours total broken up into six units with each unit broken down into 10 to 20 segments each four to 10 minutes long.
(per the listing on the product page: https://www.logos.com/product/37781/mobile-ed-nt331-book-study-pauls-letter-to-the-romans )

Many of us take several weeks to go through much shorter courses than this one!  You can watch one or a few at a time during a lunch or coffee break and read the transcript later for review and to delve into the suggested readings lists for each segment (links open the ones you already own to the relevant location and take you to the product page for ones you don't own just in case you might want to make yet another purchase.).  In several cases the links are to different editions of the same resource (as each edition has a unique Logos ID) so you only need one (of two or three) unlocked to read the intended section (eg: Segment 1 links under "See Also" to two suggested reading sections in EBR (Encountering the Book of Romans also by Moo), but there are six links as there are three distinct versions of EBR that have been published by Logos over the years. Many of the other suggested readings are sections of commentaries you may already own.

There is a multiple choice quiz at the end of each segment, and a mid term and a  final "exam" that will help you determine if you are understanding what is being covered in the course material.  The quiz and exam results go nowhere except for your own review.  (If you want to earn course certificates they deal with those differently via postings to Faithlife Groups!)

Some of the video segments show you how to optimize or use Logos to help with your studies of the subject matter.

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