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Harry Hahne | Forum Activity | Posted: Mon, Apr 17 2017 4:49 PM

It appears that unless a span of a certain number of verses is specified, a Morph Query looks for search terms within the number of words (or segments) specified in the Span, even if the search terms are found in different verses. Am I understanding this correctly?

Although the search results are listed as verses, a result may include the text of multiple verses. This is shown in the display of Bible text in the the search results.

Is there a hidden default number of verses if the span does not specify a certain number of verses?

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Jack Caviness | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Apr 18 2017 3:08 AM

Could you provide an example?

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Harry Hahne | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Apr 18 2017 12:47 PM

Jack Caviness:

Could you provide an example?

Sure. Here is a Morph Query for δε followed by δε within 20 words. It finds every combination of δε . . . δε within 20 words, even if it includes 2 or 3 verses. You can see from the results that some combinations in Matthew 1 include δε in verse 2 with δε in verse 3, or verse 3 and verse 4.

Now if I run the same search with the Span set to 1 verse and Search Span of 20 words, it only finds instances of δε . . . δε within the same verse, as would be expected.

This suggests that for Morph Queries the default is to ignore the number of verses as long as the matching terms are within the specified span of words. I am fine with this, but I just want to understand what this tool will do so I can use it correctly.

This is different than command line Morphological searches, for which the default is within the same verse. In this sense Morph Queries are more like Syntax searches.

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Harry Hahne | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Apr 18 2017 1:26 PM

Further investigation suggests that there is a limit to the search span in number verses or number of words.

Here is an example: A search for Ἀβραὰμ followed by Ἀβραὰμ within 5000 words and 100 verses should find the combination of Matt 1:1 with Matt 1:2, but it also should find the combination of Matt 1:1 with Matt 1:17 and Matt 1:2 with Matt 1:17. Instead it only finds Matt 1:1 with Matt 1:2.

So there is an apparently internal limit on the number of words or number of verses in the Span, but there is no error message saying the number of too high.

This type of search with a large span could be useful for finding literary patterns, such as chiasm and distant parallelism.

Does anyone know what the limit on span in words and verses?

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Apr 24 2017 2:27 AM

Harry Hahne:
Here is an example: A search for Ἀβραὰμ followed by Ἀβραὰμ within 5000 words and 100 verses should find the combination of Matt 1:1 with Matt 1:2, but it also should find the combination of Matt 1:1 with Matt 1:17 and Matt 1:2 with Matt 1:17. Instead it only finds Matt 1:1 with Matt 1:2.

I'll have a look when the Query server is working again! But it should be possible to get all results within a chapter, similar to Basic Search of bibles.

EDIT: I can't explain that. In Luke 16, when my search span is 5 verses the results are 22-25, 23-25, 24-25, 25-29, 29-30; as expected. But I cannot get 22-29 nor 22-30 when the search span is 9 verses or greater. When I reduce search span to 3 verses the results are 22-24, 23-25, 24-25, 29-30 ---> as one would expect. With search span 2 verses the results are 22-23, 23-24, 24-25, 29-30; as expected.

Perhaps Faithlife can explain why search span appears to be limited to about 5 verses.

Dave
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Harry Hahne | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Apr 24 2017 1:57 PM

Dave Hooton:
it should be possible to get all results within a chapter, similar to Basic Search of bibles.

This is what puzzles me. My search should find the combination of Matt 1:1 with Matt 1:17 and Matt 1:2 with Matt 1:17. It makes me think there is a verse or word limit.

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Philana R. Crouch | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Apr 26 2017 12:15 PM

Harry Hahne:

Dave Hooton:
it should be possible to get all results within a chapter, similar to Basic Search of bibles.

This is what puzzles me. My search should find the combination of Matt 1:1 with Matt 1:17 and Matt 1:2 with Matt 1:17. It makes me think there is a verse or word limit.

There is a limit of a range of 5 verses, and also a limit of 20 words. Which is why those results are not shown.

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Harry Hahne:

So there is an apparently internal limit on the number of words or number of verses in the Span, but there is no error message saying the number of too high.

Does anyone know what the limit on span in words and verses?

Philana R. Crouch:

There is a limit of a range of 5 verses, and also a limit of 20 words. Which is why those results are not shown.

To clarify: only the limit for the span type you have selected is applied. (If you set the search span to 5 verses, the 20-word limit does not apply and you can find results more than 20 words apart.)

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Apr 26 2017 4:11 PM

Bradley Grainger (Faithlife):

Philana R. Crouch:

There is a limit of a range of 5 verses, and also a limit of 20 words. Which is why those results are not shown.

To clarify: only the limit for the span type you have selected is applied. (If you set the search span to 5 verses, the 20-word limit does not apply and you can find results more than 20 words apart.)

I would have expected those limits to be enforced by the GUI. To be clear, what limits apply to the optional Proximity?

Dave
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Harry Hahne | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Apr 27 2017 11:37 AM

Philana R. Crouch:
There is a limit of a range of 5 verses, and also a limit of 20 words. Which is why those results are not shown.

This is an extremely restrictive limit. I can image grammatical constructions and stylistic studies in which the span needs to be larger than 20 words and larger than 5 verses. I am looking at the Opentext.org Syntactically Analyzed Greek New Testament and I see a number of clauses that are larger than 20 words. If a person wanted to look at a proximity in which 2 types of clauses occurred together the span could get even larger.

If there is such a limit, there should be an error message if I set the span to a higher number of verses or words.

I would really like to request that the limit be increased.

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Apr 27 2017 12:02 PM

Harry Hahne:
I would really like to request that the limit be increased.

Agree.

Dave
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Harry Hahne | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Apr 27 2017 1:52 PM

Bradley Grainger (Faithlife):
To clarify: only the limit for the span type you have selected is applied. (If you set the search span to 5 verses, the 20-word limit does not apply and you can find results more than 20 words apart.)

What happens if you have both a Search Span and a Span set? Which takes priority -- number of verses or number of words? Does the search quit when either limit is reached, whichever comes first?

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Apr 28 2017 6:16 AM

Harry Hahne:
What happens if you have both a Search Span and a Span set? Which takes priority -- number of verses or number of words?

It works rather like Bible/Morph Search and Basic Search. For both you can specify proximities (Span) for the various search terms to satisfy, but the Search Span for Bible/Morph is 1 verse, whilst it is usually 1 chapter for Basic Search.

The Span (proximity) of 3 Words means that the three Greek lemmas for Lord Jesus Christ must be consecutive but they can occur anywhere within a Search Span of 2 Verses i.e. it is possible for the lemmas to be in different verses. Morph/Bible Search doesn't alllow this, so you have to use Basic Search to overcome the single verse limitation. The units for Span and Search Span can be mixed, but Search Span should be greater than the Span to be meaningful.

Dave
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