Help needed with a search

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This post has 27 Replies | 2 Followers

Posts 20
Mark Hoffman | Forum Activity | Posted: Sat, Aug 26 2017 7:46 AM

Luke uses an ἐγενετο ἐν τῳ INFINITIVE construction 21 times in the Gospel. I like to demonstrate to my students that in doing so, Luke is echoing LXX wording (which in turn is reflecting the underlying Hebrew construction). It is not particularly eloquent Greek and is not used (as far as I can tell) in non-Jewish/Christian literature, so it's clear that Luke is intentional about its use. In the NT, the construction only shows up 2x in Mark and 1x more in Acts. It's used about 50x in the LXX.

I can run a Morph search to get these results using a collection I've made of "Greek LXX and NT LogosMorph." Here is my query search that works well:
"εγενετο" WITHIN 2 WORDS lemma:ἐν WITHIN 1 WORD lemma:ὁ  WITHIN 4 WORDS <LogosMorphGr ~ V??N????>

I have noted in another thread that there is an issue getting a bar/column/pie graph to display all the results.

I have tried, but I cannot figure out how to conduct a syntax search for this construction. Can anyone show me how?

I realize that Cascadia syntax graphs are only available for the NT and the LXX deuterocanonical books, so I will not get full LXX results.

Besides figuring a Cascadia syntax search, is there another 'visual' way of conducting a search for this construction? (Both Accordance and BibleWorks have graphical search modules that are more user-friendly than using command line searches.)

Thanks for any help!

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Graham Criddle | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Aug 26 2017 8:21 AM

Mark Hoffman:
Besides figuring a Cascadia syntax search, is there another 'visual' way of conducting a search for this construction? (Both Accordance and BibleWorks have graphical search modules that are more user-friendly than using command line searches.)

Have you looked at the Morph Query Builder? (Introduced at https://community.logos.com/forums/t/130303.aspx

Posts 20
Mark Hoffman | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Aug 26 2017 8:47 AM

Thank you, Graham. How did I miss this? Thanks for drawing my attention to it.

Unfortunately, as I am now trying to construct and run a search, I keep getting a server error.

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James Taylor | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Aug 26 2017 8:51 AM

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Graham Criddle | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Aug 26 2017 8:51 AM

Mark Hoffman:
Thank you, Graham. How did I miss this? Thanks for drawing my attention to it.

You are welcome

Mark Hoffman:
Unfortunately, as I am now trying to construct and run a search, I keep getting a server error.

Use of this requires a Logos Now subscription. Just checking if you have one. Not sure if the lack of one would cause the problem you are seeing!

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James Taylor | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Aug 26 2017 8:52 AM

Mark Hoffman:
I keep getting a server error.

I did as well, I just kept closing it and retrying and eventually got it running. And as illustrated, there's an LXX too :-)

Logos 8  | Dell Inspiron 7373 | Windows 10 Pro 64, i7, 16GB, SSD | iPhone X | iMac 27" i7, 16GB, SSD | OS 10.13

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James Taylor | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Aug 26 2017 8:53 AM

Graham Criddle:
Not sure if the lack of one would cause the problem you are seeing!

Doubt it, I'm a NOW member and had the same issue simultaneously, but got it running

Logos 8  | Dell Inspiron 7373 | Windows 10 Pro 64, i7, 16GB, SSD | iPhone X | iMac 27" i7, 16GB, SSD | OS 10.13

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James Taylor | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Aug 26 2017 9:08 AM

Graham Criddle:
the Morph Query Builder?

Thanks for illustrating, I kept getting different results than you, until I realize you added specifications for your segments to occur

Logos 8  | Dell Inspiron 7373 | Windows 10 Pro 64, i7, 16GB, SSD | iPhone X | iMac 27" i7, 16GB, SSD | OS 10.13

Posts 20
Mark Hoffman | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Aug 26 2017 9:09 AM

Just got it to run. That is very nice...

I did find that I can't use εγενετο as a surface search unless I add all the forms. (I just used a lemma aor indic 3 s of γινομαι)

Now, is there a way to graph results? Even if I just use a single morph resource, I'm not seeing a way to do so.

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James Taylor | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Aug 26 2017 9:22 AM

Something strange is happening in this filter...

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James Taylor | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Aug 26 2017 9:24 AM

and here...

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Posts 20
Mark Hoffman | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Aug 26 2017 9:49 AM

That's an issue with using Swete's LXX, I think. It's versification doesn't always match up with the standard LXX (which doesn't always match up w/ Hebrew or English versions).

I was wondering why the search results were returning 2 set of responses for Swete and Swete's Alternative texts. Keep scrolling down to the 2nd set, and you'll see that the versification has been corrected/aligned to match with the usual standards.

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NB.Mick | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Aug 26 2017 9:51 AM

James Taylor:
Something strange is happening in this filter...

try REINDEX OTGRKSWETETXT and REINDEX OTGRKSWETEALT

Running Logos 8 latest beta version on Win 10

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NB.Mick | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Aug 26 2017 9:53 AM

Mark Hoffman:
That's an issue with using Swete's LXX, I think. It's versification doesn't always match up with the standard LXX

I don't think so - versification differences are taken care of in Logos' exhaustive bible datatypes. From the picture it looks like Logos' search index is off by some positions against the surface text, so a resource reindex should help. 

Running Logos 8 latest beta version on Win 10

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Graham Criddle | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Aug 26 2017 9:54 AM

James Taylor:
Something strange is happening in this filter...

Yes I saw this as well.

I'm running the search against all morph resources and getting two sets of results for both of the LXX resources.

One if returning correct information while the other isn't

Very strange - hopefully someone from Faithlife will see this and comment.

EDIT: I've just seen Mick's comment. I would normally expect a reindex to help but (I've tried on one of the resources) and it doesn't seem to one this occasion.

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Graham Criddle | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Aug 26 2017 9:56 AM

Mark Hoffman:
I was wondering why the search results were returning 2 set of responses for Swete and Swete's Alternative texts. Keep scrolling down to the 2nd set, and you'll see that the versification has been corrected/aligned to match with the usual standards.

Sorry Mark - I hadn't seen your comment before I said effectively the same thing laterSmile

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Graham Criddle | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Aug 26 2017 9:57 AM

Mark Hoffman:
Now, is there a way to graph results?

No, this is not currently possible.

It has been requested - https://community.logos.com/forums/t/140650.aspx - but I don't know if this is something Faithlife is planning to do

Posts 20
Mark Hoffman | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Aug 26 2017 10:11 AM

It might be just something when working with the Morph Query. (And note that the Morph Query does not run on the other Logos LXX texts.)

When I look at the LXX in a normal text tab and enable multiple resources, Swete and Rahlf's and the NRSV (or other English text) line up correctly even though Swete's has the different versification.

Thanks again to all for you help. I'm glad I finally discovered the Morph Query!

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Aug 26 2017 3:59 PM

Graham Criddle:

Mark Hoffman:
I was wondering why the search results were returning 2 set of responses for Swete and Swete's Alternative texts. Keep scrolling down to the 2nd set, and you'll see that the versification has been corrected/aligned to match with the usual standards.

Sorry Mark - I hadn't seen your comment before I said effectively the same thing laterSmile

This usually arises when there is an update to a resource and not everybody has the update, so the results are given for both versions. Run the query against a specific resource to avoid the issue.

Dave
===

Windows 10 & Android 8

Posts 150
Ryan Robinson | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Aug 26 2017 7:37 PM

This is the query I created for the Cascadia database if you're still interested in that side of things. 

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