BUG: Maximized window state not maintained in Verbum

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Don Awalt | Forum Activity | Posted: Tue, Oct 10 2017 4:25 AM

On Mac 7.10 RC 1 (and prior), if Verbum is closed while in maximized state, it should reopen in maximized state - it does not. The Windows version of Verbum maintains maximized state, the Mac version should do the same.

I have not found a user interface guidelines or human factors document on the internet that indicates this is proper behavior. Please fix this, it should be a small fix! Thanks.

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alabama24 | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 10 2017 7:05 AM

Don Awalt:
The Windows version of Verbum maintains maximized state, the Mac version should do the same.

Ugh, please! I have been griping about this for at least 3 years. 

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Philana R. Crouch | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 10 2017 8:41 AM

HI Don,

This is not easy to reproduce. Can you provide a screenshot of the layout it was loading? This will help us track things down.

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Don Awalt | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 10 2017 10:50 AM

Hi Philana, this happens to me every time - I use Verbum on the latest High Sierra OS on the Mac. I don't use a layout, it just opens to the Home Page (Settings/Startup set to Home). What I do to duplicate:

1. Open Verbum - it opens in a window. 

2. Click on the green button in the top left corner of the window, to maximize Verbum to take up the entire screen.

3. Close Verbum.

4. Open Verbum - it now shows again in a window, I have to again click the green button to maximize into using the whole screen, it does not maintain the current window state when it was last closed.

If closed while maximized, it should open next time maximized. If closed in a window, it should open again in a window.

Does that help, or do you need more from me to duplicate the issue?

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alabama24 | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 10 2017 11:11 AM

Philana R. Crouch:
This is not easy to reproduce.

If you can't reproduce the issue, you don't understand the problem! Click on the green "maximize" button. Close Logos. Open Logos. Logos does not open in the maximized, full screen mode. 

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PetahChristian | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 10 2017 11:30 AM

Don Awalt:
The Windows version of Verbum maintains maximized state, the Mac version should do the same.

The first thing I do upon opening the program is to maximize the window. It certainly would be great if the Mac version had the same behavior as the Windows version.

It would not only eliminate that unnecessary step, but would avoid this maximized Home Page issue.

(Like Don, my program settings also open to the Home Page, not a layout.)

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Mike Binks | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 10 2017 11:38 AM

I don't know what you are all moaning about!

I just love the routine.

...Switch to Logos Workspace (Max Screen far left workspace)

...Note that in order to get the update I need to restart – really?

...Quit Logos

...Open Logos

...Make Logos full screen.

...Move Logos workspace back to its position as far left Workspace.

...await the next iteration.

These things that are a constant in my life give it continuity and stability. It's just one of those things you know you have to endure - just like you know that having a reading plan for a (non-bible) book will leave you at a cliff hanger each day. Mostly mid-paragraph.

Lighten up lads this is life.

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alabama24 | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 10 2017 12:27 PM

Mike Binks:
Lighten up lads; this is life.

fify Stick out tongue

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Philana R. Crouch | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 10 2017 1:29 PM

Don Awalt:

Hi Philana, this happens to me every time - I use Verbum on the latest High Sierra OS on the Mac. I don't use a layout, it just opens to the Home Page (Settings/Startup set to Home). What I do to duplicate:

1. Open Verbum - it opens in a window. 

2. Click on the green button in the top left corner of the window, to maximize Verbum to take up the entire screen.

3. Close Verbum.

4. Open Verbum - it now shows again in a window, I have to again click the green button to maximize into using the whole screen, it does not maintain the current window state when it was last closed.

If closed while maximized, it should open next time maximized. If closed in a window, it should open again in a window.

Does that help, or do you need more from me to duplicate the issue?

Hi Don,

Thanks for the clarification, I thought you were describing a different issue we've had trouble reproducing. I'll get a case written up.

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Don Awalt | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 10 2017 3:28 PM

Thanks Philana! That would be awesome if this got fixed, I am hoping it is an easy fix.

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Adam Borries (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 11 2017 3:23 PM

Don and alabama, 

I get the same behavior (with Logos on Sierra), but I'm not convinced it's a "bug." I just did the same thing on several other apps (launch, green button to maximize to its own "Space," quit, re-open), and none of them re-open fullscreen in a dedicated Space. Re-opening in window state seems to be the established convention. 

Are there other apps you are aware of that, when quit from a Space, reestablish that Space when re-opened? 

--Adam 

Adam Borries | Product Manager, Logos desktop application

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alabama24 | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 11 2017 4:19 PM

Adam Borries (Faithlife):
Are there other apps you are aware of that, when quit from a Space, reestablish that Space when re-opened?

Hmm. I know that some apps used to do so. I know that Safari used to have a setting to do so. I know that Mail & iTunes still do. I know that I sent a support link to a FL dev which outlined it, but that was 3-5(?) years ago. 

In my quick search, I found some users who said that it had been taken away... but I know that at one point there was a method for doing so. 

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alabama24 | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 11 2017 4:22 PM

I did find this, which is supposedly AppleScript:

set MyApps to {"Google Chrome", "Skype", "Finder"}
repeat with MyApp in MyApps
    tell application MyApp
        activate
        delay 3
    end tell
    tell application "System Events"
        tell process MyApp
            set value of attribute "AXFullScreen" of window 1 to true
            delay 3
        end tell
    end tell
end repeat

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PetahChristian | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 11 2017 6:39 PM

alabama24:
I know that Mail & iTunes still do.

Safari 11.0 (13604.1.38.1.6) and Photos 3.0 (3201.11.120) also open to full screen when re-opened.

This is on macOS 10.13 (17A405).

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alabama24 | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 11 2017 8:09 PM

PetahChristian:
Safari 11.0

I can't make this work. I have read old posts (about old versions), but the settings mentioned to make it work aren't present in 11.x

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Don Awalt | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Oct 12 2017 5:44 AM

Yes some do and some don't. But the guidelines are clear that software *should*, as this is part of the application 'state';  the developer guidelines discusses techniques on how to persist that state across restarts. Logos/Verbum does maintain size and position if I manually resize and reposition and then close/reopen, EXCEPT if my resizing is total screen size. Isn't that illogical?

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PetahChristian | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Oct 12 2017 7:59 AM

I tested ten additional applications to see how Apple handles this.

Nine of the applications re-open to full screen: Xcode, Terminal, Reminders, Contacts, Calendar, Notes, Maps, Messages, and App Store.

iBooks is the odd one out. It doesn't re-open to full screen, but to its last non-full screen size and position. I assume that's an oversight.

Don Awalt:
Yes some do and some don't.

It seems that Apple prefers to restore the full screen application state. Hopefully FL will follow their example.

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PetahChristian | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Oct 12 2017 8:28 AM

Don Awalt:
I have not found a user interface guidelines or human factors document on the internet that indicates this is proper behavior.

Implementing the Full Screen Experience in the Mac App Programming Guide ends with: "For more information about full-screen mode, see ... the macOS Human Interface Guidelines," which says:

"Large, high-resolution displays are typical for most Mac users, and people often extend their workspace by connecting additional displays. Apps can leverage this expansiveness and provide value by utilizing a wide range of interface components—like tabs, sidebars, sheets, and panels—and supporting immersive features like full-screen mode."

Hopefully FL will not merely offer full screen mode, but also support restoring to full screen state.

While this is such a trivial issue, getting it right somehow makes the user experience so much better. I suppose such attention to detail is one reason why companies win Apple design awards.

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alabama24 | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Oct 12 2017 8:32 AM

...but did you read anything about maintaining "full screen" after a restart? I haven't found anything yet. I don't want to let FL off the hook without them investigating it, but it might not be their fault. 

Adam's question should have a follow up: Do we know of any non-Apple apps which reopen in full screen? I haven't found any yet. Tongue Tied

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PetahChristian | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Oct 12 2017 8:48 AM

alabama24:
...but did you read anything about maintaining "full screen" after a restart? I haven't found anything yet. I don't want to let FL off the hook without them investigating it, but it might not be their fault.

While I haven't found that detail spelled out, what would be the point of persisting the full screen state if that key was not meant to be used when the application was re-opened?

alabama24:
Adam's question should have a follow up: Do we know of any non-Apple apps which reopen in full screen? I haven't found any yet.

These third-party apps do re-open in full screen:

  • Affinity Designer
  • Bear
  • GitHub Desktop
  • ocenaudio
  • Sketch

Of note, Bear won a 2017 Apple Design Award.

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