The first gods

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Milkman | Forum Activity | Posted: Wed, Jan 3 2018 10:00 AM

Is there book that traces the origins of the gods in man's earliest written existence?

I know that's a general question, but I rather work toward the specifics if need be.

I'm trying to understand how the gods came to be and where it all started. I think Dr. Heiser says that they are the offspring of the 200 or so that mated with women (Gen 6) or they are the gods themselves.

Any help would be great.

mm.

mm.

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Bruce Dunning | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jan 3 2018 10:52 AM

The Dictionary of Deities and Demons is a good resource to discuss gods in general.

https://www.logos.com/product/4236/dictionary-of-deities-and-demons-in-the-bible

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Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jan 3 2018 11:34 AM

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lists_of_deities will not answer your question per se. There's lots of lists, but each location specific.

Since you qualified your query by writings, that'd reduce to Egypt, Anatolia and Mesopotamia. Then take your chances on China.

That book I mentioned discussed the source of the Gen 6 as Meso, if that helps.


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Nick Highland | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jan 3 2018 12:55 PM

This is more specific, but might be helpful.  For an understanding of how the Jewish scriptures are written as a reaction against other religions (especially creation myths) of their day, you might research the Enûma Eliš - a Babylonian creation myth.  You'll find quite a lot of parallels with the Genesis account, and notice how the authors describe God in ways that are intentionally different from the gods in the Enûma Eliš.

For a starting place, here's the wikipedia page.  There's even a brief section about how it relates to the Bible.

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Jan Krohn | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jan 3 2018 1:17 PM

This book might be helpful:

https://vyrso.com/product/39801/in-the-beginning-god-a-fresh-look-at-the-case-for-original-monotheism

There's a lot of explanation about Hindu, Nordic, Roman/Greek, and also native American and Australian gods in there.

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Keith Pang | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jan 3 2018 1:22 PM

Original Monotheism is where you should begin...everything else belief wise is a corruption of original monotheism...which springs into polytheism, henotheism, animism, mana, etc. 

Shalom, in Christ, Keith. Check out my music www.soundcloud.com/kpang808

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Mattillo | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jan 3 2018 1:57 PM

This book ships today so you could still get it at preorder price until it does... not sure of how  much it will help you in this area though

www.logos.com/product/145435/

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Jan Krohn | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jan 3 2018 2:34 PM

Keith Pang:
Original Monotheism is where you should begin...everything else belief wise is a corruption of original monotheism...which springs into polytheism, henotheism, animism, mana, etc.

Original monotheism is a highly fascinating area, and unfortunately vastly underrepresented in terms of numbers of available Logos resources. Corduan's book on Vyrso is the only one I've seen so far...

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Keith Pang | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jan 3 2018 2:48 PM

Jan Krohn:

Original monotheism is a highly fascinating area, and unfortunately vastly underrepresented in terms of numbers of available Logos resources. Corduan's book on Vyrso is the only one I've seen so far...

I agree Jan. Courdan has an excellent argument in his textbook which I have in print. Wish they would bring more to this subject like you have already mentioned. 

Shalom, in Christ, Keith. Check out my music www.soundcloud.com/kpang808

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Bruce Dunning | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jan 3 2018 5:57 PM

Jan Krohn:

Thanks for pointing this out Jan. I checked to find that it was already in my library so I added it to my "to-read" list.

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Ben | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 4 2018 4:41 AM

It won’t treat everything, but Mark Smiths Early History of God in Logos. 

"The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected."- G.K. Chesterton

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Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 5 2018 7:50 AM

Cross is always good, though 1997 and Ugarit moved along. Smith's book is ok, I guess. I have most of his books. They meander, guess and hope. But are good reading.

I'm not sure where you're going. If you're Gen-Num, you're basically Meso or Egypt (the argument). If you're Deu-Jer, then you're somewhere between Edom and Ugarit, and all points in-between. After Jer, then you're Persia/Hellenist.

I might add, the mono vs poly argument seems (to me) facile. Mono to who? A group of priests? Temples? Someone that could write? A 'good' king or one that wins battles? It ignores everything from farmers (rain), to sailors (awful beasts underneath), to clans and families (Rebekah's hiding talents). Traders that followed stars, and tradesmen whose dieties were like union dues.

My favorite was the Assyrian empire-dreamer that made a great argument for Assur to the Assyrian cities and their city gods. Money!!  Always follow the money.


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Dan Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 5 2018 10:59 AM

Bruce Dunning:

The Dictionary of Deities and Demons is a good resource to discuss gods in general.

https://www.logos.com/product/4236/dictionary-of-deities-and-demons-in-the-bible

Perhaps slightly helpful... but VARUNA.... is really the only discussion of the Hindu pantheon which is likely where MM will find his best info since, They have a history that goes back thousands of years before the hebrews.

-dan

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 5 2018 4:24 PM

Milkman:
Is there book that traces the origins of the gods in man's earliest written existence?


Not that I am aware of. The closest that I know of is Whilhelm Schmidt's Der Ursprung der Gottesidee (The Origin of the Idea of God) which is useful as much for its references that tell one where to look as for its actual content. Unfortunately, world inclusive history of idea books are a bit scarce.

IIRC there are sections relevant to your quest in:

  • The Elementary Forms of the Religious Life by Emile Durkheim
  • The Idea of the Holy by R. Otto
  • The Sacred and the Profane by Mircea Eliade

Yes, you should recognize these a foundational to religious studies for those of us of a "certain age".

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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DAL | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 5 2018 6:27 PM

Hey MJ, great to see you posting again! I guess that means Logos 8 is done and will release in the fall of this year 👍😁👌

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 5 2018 6:48 PM

Thankyou. Here I thought I was working on Logos 18 ... the first virtual reality edition with built in logic verification. :-)

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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Beloved | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 5 2018 7:08 PM

MJ, glad to see you back from your sabbatical Smile

Meanwhile, Jesus kept on growing wiser and more mature, and in favor with God and his fellow man.

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Jan Krohn | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 6 2018 1:43 AM

MJ. Smith:
Not that I am aware of. The closest that I know of is Whilhelm Schmidt's Der Ursprung der Gottesidee (The Origin of the Idea of God) which is useful as much for its references that tell one where to look as for its actual content. Unfortunately, world inclusive history of idea books are a bit scarce.

Indeed. Since I posted it to uservoice two years ago, it has attracted an amazing total of 3 votes:

https://suggestbooks.uservoice.com/forums/308269-book-suggestions/suggestions/10947324-der-ursprung-der-gottesidee-wilhelm-schmidt

(Disclaimer: they're my own three votes...)

If interested in this work, please vote it up.

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Whyndell Gizzard | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 6 2018 6:05 AM

Milkman:

Did you build a PBB? Did not find it on the Logos website.

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