Security and Privacy Concern about Logos4 Phonning Home

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This post has 284 Replies | 8 Followers

Posts 81
Ray Timmermans | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Apr 26 2010 2:26 PM

Bob,

"Amen and Amen!"

Posts 13411
Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Apr 26 2010 2:30 PM

Thank you Bob, for such a reasoned and gracious reply. I'm with you 100%.

Posts 3578
steve clark | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Apr 26 2010 2:32 PM

ditto on Mark's reply

Bob i hope that you don't have to repeat this again Smile

Sharing user files sounds like the future.

QLinks, Bibl2, LLR, Macros
Dell Insp 17-5748, i5, 1.7 GHz, 8G RAM, win 8.1

Posts 410
Ken Shawver | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Apr 26 2010 2:46 PM

Bob Pritchett:
This PCI Security Standard is an obligation of large merchants who charge credit cards. (See https://www.pcisecuritystandards.org/) PCI compliance has required us to implement name badges, visitor logs, run background checks on certain employees, implement two-factor authentication for certain systems, and to physically and digitally reconfigure our networks. It took us a year to comply, and we get audited.

Bob I hear you, working in the software business where our end-users run their businesses and take crdit card have also just received our PCI compliancy and are rolling our software to all of these sites. It's taken a tremendous amount of work to get there. Thanks for the information on that point and I am glad not to share my credit card info Stick out tongue.

I use my prayer list but I can make it cryptic enough so no one knows who it is that I am referring to, but if it's highly sensitive then I would store it else where. It is not unreasonable to do that. I'd rather Logos focus on their strengths and that is providing a powerhouse of a sermon prep and Bible study tool. That's why I invested with Logos and am a promotor of Logos.

Bob Pritchett:
The world is moving to cloud-based web services over installed desktop apps.

I will admit that I was hesitant about the cloud-based app, and I see where it is becoming more and more prominent. I may not be a full proponent of it yet, but my feelings on it are much better than in the beginning. I still like having the off-line capabilities and I don't see that going away anytime soon as there are places that I do not have net services and I use Logos regularly.

Thank you again for your comments on this issue, as usual your Christian response is greatly appreciated.

God Bless.

In Christ,

Ken

Dell Studio 1555; 15.6 True Life LCD; Intel Core 2 Duo T6600 2.20 GHz, 2M Cache, 800 MHz FSB ; 500GB 5400 HDD; 8GB RAM, Win 10, Chrome 70

http://wiki.logos.com/

Posts 2964
tom | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Apr 26 2010 4:28 PM

Bob,

I simply do not want my data on yours or anyone else's servers.  All I am asking if the option to stop our notes/prayer list/rest of our data from being sent from our computers to your servers without losing the ability to purchase/download new books.

I stopped using the sermon addin for L3 because it uploaded my sermons to your servers.  I am not going to use L4 if it uploads my data to your servers, PERIOD!  I am currently half tempted to cancel all of my prepubs (over $3,000) simply because I do not want my data on your servers.  As of right now, I am waiting on what the final version of L4 ends up to be before I cancel all of my prepub orders.

This past March, a coalition of organizations (ACLU, Google, AT&T...) published a press release stating that the Electronic Communications Privacy Act needs to be updated.  I have and continue to work with my senators and congresspeople to state that we (consumers) also need protection from companies. 

Posts 30220
Forum MVP
MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Apr 26 2010 4:51 PM

tom collinge:
I stopped using the sermon addin for L3 because it uploaded my sermons to your servers.

All I did was set the flag to not upload - and delete a few that had uploaded before I found the option. My reason was copyright concerns relating to others' work.

I think we all understand both yours and Bob's position. I hope this is the last I read on the topic for a long time.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 1367
JimTowler | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Apr 26 2010 5:08 PM

Bob Pritchett:
We're designing our application for this future. I know this future is not exactly present today (that's why it's the "future!" <smile>) but it is clearly coming. In the future, our product offerings will store all the data you choose to maintain with our tools in the cloud.

Bob,

Thanks for at last responding to some of the points in this thread.

I have read and concidered your comments, but do not agree with you in all aspects.

I welcome the cloud, and stuff just working, and on a range of devices. Its a great way for me as the customer to get access to the products or services I purchased from your company.

But as to you keeping my personal data, in unknown locations, and with unknown security, thats something I don't want, and over time I will move away from. If I can't block it, and feel you have too much metadata or actual content, then I will get off the Logos train. I'll walk, using paper books if i have to, or an alternative product.

I feel disapointed in this direction, but for now, will attempt to obtain value from what I have already spent on the resources. I intend this to be my last word on this unless something changes.

Regards,

Your Customer.

Posts 8967
RIP
Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Apr 26 2010 9:51 PM

Jim Towler:
I feel disapointed in this direction, but for now, will attempt to obtain value from what I have already spent on the resources.

Jim, How about just using Logos for study and getting some more secure small program to keep your sensitive content "for your eyes only?" It would be a shame to shelve the seacrh engine Logos has developed. OneNote can fill the niche.

Logos 7 Collectors Edition

Posts 343

Bob Pritchett:
The world is moving to cloud-based web services over installed desktop apps. (Don't freak out -- we'll continue to support offline use for as long as a significant percentage of our users want it.) Some of us wish this wasn't so, or aren't prepared for it mentally, but it's happening none-the-less. We're designing our application for this future.

My main concern with going completely cloud-based is that I wouldn't be able to access Logos if the company's servers went down.  Or if something breaks in the system, every user suffers.  If the company went under, then we would no longer have the program.  Or that I HAVE to be connected to the internet in order to use the program.  Once the entire world is cloud-based dependent, chaos will happen when something goes wrong.

Jason Saling

Posts 30220
Forum MVP
MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Apr 29 2010 6:29 PM

Jason Saling:
My main concern with going completely cloud-based is that I wouldn't be able to access Logos if the company's servers went down.

a possible future but not a current reality - your resources are on your machine.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 232
AndyTheGreek | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Apr 30 2010 4:49 AM

Bob Pritchett:

The world is moving to cloud-based web services over installed desktop apps. (Don't freak out -- we'll continue to support offline use for as long as a significant percentage of our users want it.) Some of us wish this wasn't so, or aren't prepared for it mentally, but it's happening none-the-less. We're designing our application for this future. I know this future is not exactly present today (that's why it's the "future!" <smile>) but it is clearly coming. In the future, our product offerings will store all the data you choose to maintain with our tools in the cloud. So implementing "hold some of my calls!" type features to pick and choose what goes to the cloud now seems like a waste of time. Relevant today, but just creating problems for the future, when you'll expect ALL of your data to magically appear on your iPhone, iPad, web site, Android, BlackBerry, iSlate, etc.

PS If you care enough that you want to know which algorithms, etc. then you're probably wiser to just disconnect your computer from the Internet physically.

I agree with Bob's PS - another way in Logos 4 to get that sort of privacy is to work offline - hold down the CTRL key on running Logos 4 and then select Work Offline. No synching or any Internet activity occurs within Logos 4 in that scenario.

Bob said "Don't freak out -- we'll continue to support offline use for as long as a significant percentage of our users want it". But how will you know what they want? Many will turn off usage feedback features in the software and, in any case, there is no 'where do you want the data?' feedback option. The percentage of Logos users who are forum users seems pretty small, so the views expressed here cannot be considered a consensus of user opinion.

In the end, Logos needs to remember that their future depends on meeting their customer's needs and wants. I've seen companies go  bust because they tried to force their vision onto their customers, resulting in customer alienation. Thus far I see Logos 4 going down this route in these areas:

  • .NET & WPF == you need a high spec high end computer to use "a sermon preparation tool" (Bob's words)
  • Fast Internet connection with unlimited bandwidth is almost a requirement.
  • Several of us have asked for the ability to say 'no' to downloading a resource. Bob says this 'will never happen'. So I have to download it and then hide it to prevent having to download the updates for it. So the only reason I cannot say 'no' upfront is because Logos says I can't. It doesn't break the program to hide it, which deletes it, which puts the program in the same position as if I had said 'no' to the download. The only difference is I had to pay for the bandwidth to have the privilege of downloading it. Still, it was only £75...
  • And now Cloud computing "is clearly coming".

On this last point, here's what Richard Stallman, founder of the Free Software Foundation said: "It's stupidity. It's worse than stupidity: it's a marketing hype campaign," he told The Guardian. "Somebody is saying this is inevitable – and whenever you hear somebody saying that, it's very likely to be a set of businesses campaigning to make it true." (http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2008/sep/29/cloud.computing.richard.stallman

I quote him simply to show that there are alternative viewpoints to Bob's worldview.

Andy

Posts 605
John Fugh, Jr. | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Apr 30 2010 5:19 AM

Andy Bell:
Bob said "Don't freak out -- we'll continue to support offline use for as long as a significant percentage of our users want it".

 

Hi Andy,  Thanks for you post.  I feel a lot of your sentiments although I have been quiet on the issue.  This concerns me because of the investiment I have made in this resources.  I can't just pick up and go someplace else with them.  I need Logos.  This is why I had recently re-installed L3.  Maybe I just need the assurance that if the Internet goes away, I will still have my resources and be able to easily reinstall these resources if my computer crashes.

I like all the features of L4.  I love the search and the layout along with the windows management.  I just wish I didn't have to rely on the syncing with amazon servers.  I wish it was a stand alone package.  I know the reasoning behind all the thinking.  It is for the multi-platform usage and along with the accessibility of my stuff from mobile devices and the internet.  It just concerns me.

Thanks,

John

Posts 2789
Forum MVP
Ted Hans | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Apr 30 2010 5:22 AM

Andy Bell:

On this last point, here's what Richard Stallman, founder of the Free Software Foundation said: "It's stupidity. It's worse than stupidity: it's a marketing hype campaign," he told The Guardian. "Somebody is saying this is inevitable – and whenever you hear somebody saying that, it's very likely to be a set of businesses campaigning to make it true." (http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2008/sep/29/cloud.computing.richard.stallman)

I quote him simply to show that there are alternative viewpoints to Bob's worldview.

Andy

One can search for the above article on the Guardian web under - Cloud computing is a trap, warns GNU founder Richard Stallman; if the link is broken.

Ted

 

 

Dell, studio XPS 7100, Ram 8GB, 64 - bit Operating System, AMD Phenom(mt) IIX6 1055T Processor 2.80 GHZ

Posts 847
Praiser | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, May 20 2010 5:58 PM

Bob Pritchett:

I'm sorry we're unable to make everyone happy.

We're not anti-privacy. I like it myself. But taking on privacy needs for others is a massive responsibility, and an expensive one to implement well. So we go out of our way to disclaim responsibility and to encourage you to NOT store private or confidential information in our software.

Making lots of tough privacy policy and promises just creates a higher standard that we could be legally held to. If we were a bank, I'd consider that a cost of doing business. Since we're (largely) a sermon preparation tool, and sermons are designed to be preached aloud in public, it seems like a wiser use of our resources to put money into content, user interface, and service, rather than building a fortress to protect sermon notes.

I understand the sensitivity of prayer lists. If yours are that sensitive, don't use our prayer list feature. (It was just a "freebie add-on" to our core function; it's not the heart of our software.) If we get pressed to the wall, we're more likely to remove the prayer list feature than to implement guaranteed iron-clad security.

The world is moving to cloud-based web services over installed desktop apps. (Don't freak out -- we'll continue to support offline use for as long as a significant percentage of our users want it.) Some of us wish this wasn't so, or aren't prepared for it mentally, but it's happening none-the-less. We're designing our application for this future. I know this future is not exactly present today (that's why it's the "future!" <smile>) but it is clearly coming. In the future, our product offerings will store all the data you choose to maintain with our tools in the cloud. So implementing "hold some of my calls!" type features to pick and choose what goes to the cloud now seems like a waste of time. Relevant today, but just creating problems for the future, when you'll expect ALL of your data to magically appear on your iPhone, iPad, web site, Android, BlackBerry, iSlate, etc.

The good news:

I don't want to read your private data. :-) We're designing our systems for reasonable privacy. We just recently changed the way we store passwords, so that no one at Logos can ever see your password. (Now we can't even give it to you if you ask; we can only reset it.)

We are also bound (through a non-government, private contractual obligation) to comply with stringent credit-card security rules. This PCI Security Standard is an obligation of large merchants who charge credit cards. (See https://www.pcisecuritystandards.org/) PCI compliance has required us to implement name badges, visitor logs, run background checks on certain employees, implement two-factor authentication for certain systems, and to physically and digitally reconfigure our networks. It took us a year to comply, and we get audited.

Are your synced documents as secure as your credit card number? Probably not. Sync is new to us, and we're still working on the system. In the course of debugging things, ensuring there's no data corruption, etc. I imagine some user text (mixed in with lots of <xml>tags</xml>) appears on programmers' screens. Right now it's on a server we control, but in the future it'll probably move into Amazon's cloud based storage system. I don't know that we encrypt it at the moment.

In the future, I can see us implementing some more security. We could allow you to add a client-side-only password that would be used to encrypt your personal data before it was sent to our sync servers. Of course it would create more customer service -- if you lost it we couldn't recover it, and if you wanted to see that data on one of our future web sites, or a mobile device, you'd need to decrypt it there, etc. But if that's what eveyrone wants, we can go that direction. But it won't be immediately -- we've got what we think are higher priority tasks to get done first. (Getting sync to work with shared documents -- for people who want to share their documents -- and moved to the even more reliable Amazon servers, etc.)

I'm not trying to be difficult or insensitive. But security is complicated, expensive, and a huge responsibility. And since we get more people asking "how do I share my documents with my church/class?" than "how do I keep my document private with 256-bit military grade encryption, even when it's sent over the Internet?", it seems like the first is a better place to put our resources. (Your credit card number, which I imagine you don't want shared with your church, is locked down according to the massive PCI protocols.)

-- Bob

PS If you care enough that you want to know which algorithms, etc. then you're probably wiser to just disconnect your computer from the Internet physically. This is what real security is -- locked, windowless rooms and computers without network connections, electromagnetically shielded. Because anyone sophisticated enough to be sniffing your traffic is probably much more likely to attack through the never-ending, always-a-new-one-found hole in your operating system or web browser, or by attaching a key-logger to your physical device, than by bothering to decrypt data. Even in the most plausible "it was a secret I stored in Logos Bible Software that someone wanted to get" scenario -- say, an abusive estranged spouse wanting access to counseling notes / prayer requests? -- I would imagine that planting a spy device (voice activated recorder, key-logger, remote "laser off window" listening device) ordered off the Internet, or hacking your machine directly, would be more likely and easier than finding and extracting your data on our servers.

 

 

 

Thank you Bob for your thoughtful reply and sound reasoning.

Posts 521
Russ White | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, May 20 2010 6:56 PM

<I've gone back and shortened my reply considerably--cut to the chase>

So, now that someone has pointed me to this thread, I'll answer here.

You essentially make five arguments here. The first is:

Since we're (largely) a sermon preparation tool, and sermons are designed to be preached aloud in public, it seems like a wiser use of our resources to put money into content, user interface, and service, rather than building a fortress to protect sermon notes.

This is a fundamental misunderstanding of the idea of security. Security doesn't mean hiding something permanently, or unhiding it permanently. There are many things which I want to hide now, and want to publish later. You make the same fundamental argument later:

PS If you care enough that you want to know which algorithms, etc. then you're probably wiser to just disconnect your computer from the Internet physically. This is what real security is -- locked, windowless rooms and computers without network connections, electromagnetically shielded.

Again, no it's not. I've worked in a TEMPEST rated facility with a TS/SCI safe, STU-3's, and various KG's. I've worked on equipment I still can't talk about. I've worked in environments you don't even know exist. Security is not about hiding under a rock, it's about controlling the flow and use of information. If I can't control the information (or deny someone else access to it), then I can't secure it. For instance, you say:

Relevant today, but just creating problems for the future, when you'll expect ALL of your data to magically appear on your iPhone, iPad, web site, Android, BlackBerry, iSlate, etc.

The implication is that just because you think I want my data everywhere, I don't want to control it. This is a false implication. I'll always expect to be able to control what data shows up where. As the concerns over privacy become more severe, as the generation currently rising realizes what they've given away in terms of information about themselves, as people lose their jobs, or job opportunities over pictures of themselves on facebook that can't ever be removed, you're going to see a backlash against this stuff. The best bet is to be ready for all eventualities, not to count on one paradigm running the world forever.

The second is:

The world is moving to cloud-based web services over installed desktop apps.

I'm sorry, Bob, but I disagree, and I live and breath the IT world. These things go in ebbs and flows. Right now the world is aflame with mainframes (otherwise known as cloud computing). In six months--and a couple of business failures--later, the flow will move back. I won't name specific names, but I can tell you  more than 75% of the large networks I work on will never go to a public, commercial cloud service. I've specifically asked many large network administrators this question, and most of them say, "over my dead body." So either we're going to have a lot of dead really senior people on the network and administrative side of the network, or it's simply not going to fly to the level of the market hype.

I, personally, will never rent an application on the 'web, nor store my data on the 'web. I know how secure your data is. To put it mildly, anyone who trusts 'the cloud' probably doesn't lock their doors at night, either, because there's no point. I've always made it a rule of thumb never to use locks a locksmith tells me I'm a fool to use.

The third is:

I don't want to read your private data. :-)

This isn't about you, or anyone at Logos, Bob. This is about the person who breaks into your system--and it will happen. This is about the Federal search warrant in a free speech case when someone is taken to jail for preaching against homosexuality. There are larger issues here than you reading my notes.

You say you work hard to protect my data for me. I find this a bit of a hollow promise when you won't allow me to choose which data I've inserted into Logos to send or not to send. You're very concerned about the privacy of my data, but you won't promise me anything, and you won't do anything to let me protect my data other than to say, "don't use my software."

The fourth is:

I'm not trying to be difficult or insensitive. But security is complicated, expensive, and a huge responsibility

What you're saying here is, "I don't want to be responsible for your data, so please don't put it in my software." I would suggest the more realistic answer is, "I don't want to be responsible for your personal data, so let me make it so you can choose what you send?" You've already admitted that it's always going to be harder for you to secure my data than for me to, but you don't want to put a simple feature in place that will allow me not to send that data to you. "Just don't use my software," is your only answer.

At the same time, there's a built in contradiction to your argument. You've already admitted that you don't want to be responsible for my data, and then you turn around and say, "you might as well get used to your data being in 'the cloud,' because that's where it's going to end up anyway." In other words, you're not willing to supply me the security you say I'll eventually need. That doesn't make any sense at all.

The fifth is:

It will cost me in support, because people will lose their data.

So you expect your users to be intelligent and mature enough to not use your software for "sensitive data," and yet you expect them to be dumb and immature enough to complain when they lose their encryption key. I don't see how this makes sense.

==

To summarize, you could say you're just wasting your time to build in local storage of some items today. I'll say you're wasting your time building in only network based storage today, because the world will only go through this swing of the pendulum until people rebel against it. And you'll lose in the next round to new software that works intelligently locally. The best bet is to understand the swings, and build in the flexibility today. I design networks and protocols for a living; the one thing I've learned over the years is that flexibility never goes out of style. To be able to say, "well you want to centralize, let me show you how to do that with this network design," and then to be able to say, "well, you want to decentralize, let me show you how to do that with this network design." That's always the winning sell. Always.

If you'd like to chat off line, I'm easy to find--russ@cisco.com is one way.

Russ

Posts 2964
tom | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, May 21 2010 5:31 AM

Russ White:

<I've gone back and shortened my reply considerably--cut to the chase>

So, now that someone has pointed me to this thread, I'll answer here.

You essentially make five arguments here. The first is:

Since we're (largely) a sermon preparation tool, and sermons are designed to be preached aloud in public, it seems like a wiser use of our resources to put money into content, user interface, and service, rather than building a fortress to protect sermon notes.

This is a fundamental misunderstanding of the idea of security. Security doesn't mean hiding something permanently, or unhiding it permanently. There are many things which I want to hide now, and want to publish later. You make the same fundamental argument later:

PS If you care enough that you want to know which algorithms, etc. then you're probably wiser to just disconnect your computer from the Internet physically. This is what real security is -- locked, windowless rooms and computers without network connections, electromagnetically shielded.

Again, no it's not. I've worked in a TEMPEST rated facility with a TS/SCI safe, STU-3's, and various KG's. I've worked on equipment I still can't talk about. I've worked in environments you don't even know exist. Security is not about hiding under a rock, it's about controlling the flow and use of information. If I can't control the information (or deny someone else access to it), then I can't secure it. For instance, you say:

Relevant today, but just creating problems for the future, when you'll expect ALL of your data to magically appear on your iPhone, iPad, web site, Android, BlackBerry, iSlate, etc.

The implication is that just because you think I want my data everywhere, I don't want to control it. This is a false implication. I'll always expect to be able to control what data shows up where. As the concerns over privacy become more severe, as the generation currently rising realizes what they've given away in terms of information about themselves, as people lose their jobs, or job opportunities over pictures of themselves on facebook that can't ever be removed, you're going to see a backlash against this stuff. The best bet is to be ready for all eventualities, not to count on one paradigm running the world forever.

The second is:

The world is moving to cloud-based web services over installed desktop apps.

I'm sorry, Bob, but I disagree, and I live and breath the IT world. These things go in ebbs and flows. Right now the world is aflame with mainframes (otherwise known as cloud computing). In six months--and a couple of business failures--later, the flow will move back. I won't name specific names, but I can tell you  more than 75% of the large networks I work on will never go to a public, commercial cloud service. I've specifically asked many large network administrators this question, and most of them say, "over my dead body." So either we're going to have a lot of dead really senior people on the network and administrative side of the network, or it's simply not going to fly to the level of the market hype.

I, personally, will never rent an application on the 'web, nor store my data on the 'web. I know how secure your data is. To put it mildly, anyone who trusts 'the cloud' probably doesn't lock their doors at night, either, because there's no point. I've always made it a rule of thumb never to use locks a locksmith tells me I'm a fool to use.

The third is:

I don't want to read your private data. :-)

This isn't about you, or anyone at Logos, Bob. This is about the person who breaks into your system--and it will happen. This is about the Federal search warrant in a free speech case when someone is taken to jail for preaching against homosexuality. There are larger issues here than you reading my notes.

You say you work hard to protect my data for me. I find this a bit of a hollow promise when you won't allow me to choose which data I've inserted into Logos to send or not to send. You're very concerned about the privacy of my data, but you won't promise me anything, and you won't do anything to let me protect my data other than to say, "don't use my software."

The fourth is:

I'm not trying to be difficult or insensitive. But security is complicated, expensive, and a huge responsibility

What you're saying here is, "I don't want to be responsible for your data, so please don't put it in my software." I would suggest the more realistic answer is, "I don't want to be responsible for your personal data, so let me make it so you can choose what you send?" You've already admitted that it's always going to be harder for you to secure my data than for me to, but you don't want to put a simple feature in place that will allow me not to send that data to you. "Just don't use my software," is your only answer.

At the same time, there's a built in contradiction to your argument. You've already admitted that you don't want to be responsible for my data, and then you turn around and say, "you might as well get used to your data being in 'the cloud,' because that's where it's going to end up anyway." In other words, you're not willing to supply me the security you say I'll eventually need. That doesn't make any sense at all.

The fifth is:

It will cost me in support, because people will lose their data.

So you expect your users to be intelligent and mature enough to not use your software for "sensitive data," and yet you expect them to be dumb and immature enough to complain when they lose their encryption key. I don't see how this makes sense.

==

To summarize, you could say you're just wasting your time to build in local storage of some items today. I'll say you're wasting your time building in only network based storage today, because the world will only go through this swing of the pendulum until people rebel against it. And you'll lose in the next round to new software that works intelligently locally. The best bet is to understand the swings, and build in the flexibility today. I design networks and protocols for a living; the one thing I've learned over the years is that flexibility never goes out of style. To be able to say, "well you want to centralize, let me show you how to do that with this network design," and then to be able to say, "well, you want to decentralize, let me show you how to do that with this network design." That's always the winning sell. Always.

If you'd like to chat off line, I'm easy to find--russ@cisco.com is one way.

Russ

Yes

Posts 4508
Robert Pavich | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, May 21 2010 6:10 AM

Bob,

thank you also, for the calm reasoned reply...I'm not sure that I could under the circumstances...then again..I'm not a business owner.

I've handled the situation a little differently...I've not put personal things into notes in Logos that I wouldn't want distributed to the public.

That way, this whole conversation is moot.

Robert Pavich

For help go to the Wiki: http://wiki.logos.com/Table_of_Contents__

Posts 3114
Tes | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, May 22 2010 10:40 AM

Mark Barnes:

They use the https protocol for transferring your data to Logos. That's as secure as it gets. No-one knows how the data is stored when it arrives, but a reasonable guess from the traffic is that it's stored on a Logos Windows 2008 server located at FiberCloud.

Is there someone who can answer my question, I think we are dealing with Bible matters, what is the fear of data and so on, like we can face a terrorist attack? And what makes doubt to trust Logos? Is there any one who has bad experience with Logos in this matter?  

Blessings in Christ.

Posts 26029
Forum MVP
Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, May 22 2010 5:42 PM

Tes:
I think we are dealing with Bible matters, what is the fear of data and so on, like we can face a terrorist attack? And what makes doubt to trust Logos?

Logos are new to the issues of syncing our bible-based data (prayer & reading lists, notes, etc.) over the internet & admit that it could be more secure. The fear for many is how easily the data can be intercepted and/or read from the servers on which it is being stored - it is a  privacy issue.The recommendation is not to expose personal/confidential information to the internet - if necessary use other applications where the data is stored locally.

I doubt anybody can legislate against terrorist attack but we can protect our own data from loss by backing up the Logos4 application folder - the biggest danger here is hardware failure!

Dave
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Windows 10 & Android 8

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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, May 22 2010 7:49 PM

Tes:
Is there someone who can answer my question, I think we are dealing with Bible matters, what is the fear of data and so on

If I keep homemade ice cream recipes in my Logos notes I won't really care if someone intercepts them. I would never store detailed identifiable data that could hurt someone I am counseling in a network enviroment.
Even financial institutions are not hacker proof. My bank's security certificate has been invalid for years because they registered it in a "nickname" instead of their legal name. I have also run across a cute little virus that denies access to servers by adjusting the computer's internal clock ahead several years making the certificates presented appear expired. Just last Summer a vulnerability was discovered in Transport Layer Security that allows interception. Some college kids can break 256 bit encryption in a matter of hours. There is no internet connection that possesses absolute security.
But we are dealing with a Bible software program, aren't we? Your question is a very good one:

Tes:
And what makes doubt to trust Logos? Is there any one who has bad experience with Logos in this matter?  

Logos 7 Collectors Edition

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